Cheating is as American as cherry pie. In the country that created the confidence man as a cultural hero and celebrated the slogan “Winning is the only thing” as moral wisdom, fair play is a problematic ideal. David Callahan knows this, but he also knows that cheating has been most widespread when markets have been least regulated. In a spirited… return to article
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Reader Comments (13)Page 1 of 1 pagesCheating is NOT American. Not by my definition. Mr. Lears’ blathering about America defines only Mr. Lears himself. My guess is that Jackhole Lears however, is not an American.
Up yours Jackson Lears. Your article does not back up your opening statement’s idiotic presumption.
Sincerely,
Jeff Taylor
Proud American
Posted by jefftaylor on Jun 4, 2004 at 3:06 PM I had intended to present a different response to this article, until I saw Jeff Taylor’s comments.
This typical, paranoid, knee-jerk, Republican reaction just sickens me. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS.
Jeff, your asinine, simple reduction of a thought-provoking article is clear proof of what Jackson Lears was talking about. When a corrupt power is in charge it reduces the complexity of the problems it has caused to simple black and white. Those who disagree must obviously “hate America” or “hate freedom”. Jesus Christ, open your eyes, fool. This attitude allows companies to further screw you and it doesn’t force social change. But, don’t believe it, don’t believe a few of these great, God-fearing American examples:
Pat Robertson
Oliver North
Richard Nixon
The 1919 Chicago White Sox
Pete Rose
Rush Limbaugh
Hooker Chemical Company (Love Canal NY)
Dow Chemical (Bhopal India disaster)
Enron
Katherine Harris
Bill Clinton
Spiro Agnew
Boss Tweed (Tammany Hall)
There are hundreds more.You should know Jackson Lears is an American. David Callahan, also an American, co-founded a new think tank, Demos, a public policy center based in New York City. It combines research and advocacy, working to strengthen democracy and expand economic opportunity within the U.S.
You can contact him, oh “proud American” at: dcallahan(at)demos-usa.org and tell him what you think.God forbid he advocate bringing jobs back to the US from those who have de-regulated the industry, thus CHEATING millions out of pensions and a way of life. That just wouldn’t go along with the whole American way, then, as you say, proving Jackson’s points.
Posted by Ammonia D on Jun 5, 2004 at 2:45 PM Ay caramba ... meester Taylor:
Wether you don’t get it or as I believe, you are a big time cheater yourself.
This is not rocket science Jeff, it’s plain and simple reality.
A word of advise: Turn on your TV and “watch” it or read a newspaper, don’t just look at it. You’ll be shocked !!
By the way, have you stopped at a gas station lately?
I didn’t mean to hurt you, just to bring you down to earth.
Posted by soy-amigo on Jun 6, 2004 at 1:35 PM Well well… quite amazing.
For starters, yes, my comment went a little far by being rude to Mr. Lears and I apologize. Short of that, I stand by it.
I do get the article, Soy-amigo, but I appreciate your comment. After writing my comment I was indeed forced to turn the “are you a cheater” eye on myself and yes, yes, even the great proud american was forced to admit that this sickening culture of cheating that Jackson Lears talks about has crept into my life, even if only in the smallest way. So thanks for the reminder Jackson. Why don’t you be more specific however soy-amigo? How is it do you say I’m cheating? by buying gas? As a musician I don’t care much for song stealing so you don’t have me on that one. I’ll read the article again. The plain and simple truth of it is that it comes down to choice. I choose not to cheat, and upon reflection I’ve realized that it is not easy. Maybe I’m lucky enough to get by without so much of it and that’s a shame that we may live in a world in which cheating is an edge one needs to eat. Regardless, I certainly will not accept cheating as an American ideal.
I’m a little less regretful for the assy nature of my comment after reading ammonia d’s comment! I’m glad to have pulled this one out of the woodwork. wow… talk about a knee jerk reaction! Where again do I say that Jackson Lears hates America? Can you point that out to me? Why am I paranoid for not agreeing that cheating is the “American Way”??? I would like to point out that it was largely the “American as cherry pie” comment (along with his sentiment) that made me think that Mr. Lears might not be home grown… I’ve never heard it quite like that, it’s apple pie where I come from. Maybe he did that on purpose… clever perhaps. Those power corrupt individuals you speak of Ammonia D get away with cheating because it is accepted as a norm. And turn that “this is where the problem is” concept back on yourself… let’s say knee jerking is the problem, I’m not saying I’m not guilty of it (i.e. the angry nature of my first comment :)) but where does villianizing people you don’t agree with get you? You don’t have the slightest clue as to my political leanings. I just don’t like being called a cheater, and I don’t like my country being called a cheater. The American Dream does not include cheating. You want to make me out to be some sort of bad guy, some typical republican, so you fabricate me into this stereo-type so you can tell me off as such. The world isn’t that black and white. Also, am I a bad person for not having read Jackson Lear before?
OK
I may have come on a little crabby but I stand by my assertion about cheating and the American way. To both of you… are neither of you proud of the ideals this country was built on? I’m guessing you are. Would you go around telling people when they catch you cheating that it’s ok because “It’s the American Way!!” great.
Again, I GET the article. I just don’t like the way it’s framed. I think it’s a cheap writers trick to get people to read it and an unnecessary slap in the face to the American Dream.
Well, I’ve gone on about this long enough for now. I’ll be happy to respond to any more comments.
I remain,
Jeff Taylor
Proud American
Posted by jefftaylor on Jun 7, 2004 at 11:02 AM Maybe you didn’t get it or I wasn’t clear.
The pun is simple: Oil companies are the biggest dessert thieves you can find these days and they CHEAT on you every time you buy their product, and so does the Defense Department when they buy hundreds of first class hand held computers at stratospheric prices to give as presents to their employees in these times of war WITH YOUR MONEY !!! And how about we Californians being cheated to boot by the electric power companies? Pharmaceutical companies? (Feel cheated already?).
Unfortunately as technology grows in this country of ours, morals decline.
The absolute fact is that MONEY dictates morals these days.The easiest and fastest way to make money and gain power is by CHEATING. So, lets get into the game and cheat, cheat, cheat.
I said my piece.
Posted by soy-amigo on Jun 7, 2004 at 12:19 PM Soy,
You’re still not being clear. Now you’re talking about feeling cheated. Damn straight I feel cheated. Doesn’t mean I’m going to cheat.
What gets my goat about the article isn’t that it points out the culture of cheating that exists and that David Callahan is concerned. It’s the stance that “Cheating is as American as cherry pie” and “In this society only a putz doesn’t cheat” represent as statements. I think that’s a chicken sh*t attitude and you seem to have bought into it. How depressing. Your “let’s get out there and cheat” comment might very well to prove to me that the context in which Mr. Lear explores what Callahan is talking about is misleading and would tend to lead those with weak morals to further stain the fabric of this great country with cheatin’ ways...aargh. I’m sort of kidding on that last bit, as I really hope that it isn’t true. Nonetheless I doubt David Callahan’s message is “let’s get out there and cheat”.
Perhaps you and Jackson Lear are both engaging in tongue in cheek commentary. Well, I think you both are taking the cowards way by not taking a stand and ultimately that makes you part of the problem, and that’s no pun… that’s irony.
Posted by jefftaylor on Jun 7, 2004 at 12:55 PM Mr. Taylor:
It’s clear to me that you are confusing the American DREAM with the American REALITY. Of course cheating is not part of the American DREAM!!! In your zeal to defend your black & white view of the american ideal...you forget the wholesale bankrupting of the State of California by Enron, just for one example. Did you listen to the audiotapes of those traders gloating over the tragic fires???? COME ON!!!!!!!!! Open your eyes. NO one is attacking your precious...indeed our precious IDEAL of the American DREAM, only what it has BECOME!!!!! Win at ALL COSTS...even to laughing it up as the little old ladies’ homes are burning...as long as we got the BIG BUCKS!!!! If you don’t see the distinction, I give up.
A.L.
Posted by Amolibri on Jun 7, 2004 at 1:04 PM Holy Monkeys Abolibri!
I think I established that I don’t think anything is black and white.I would also argue with your assertion that I somehow don’t see what the article is about and disagree that cheating is an American reality. I fully agree with you there. I think that accepting cheating is an attack on the American Dream.
My distaste for a few sentences in the article and it’s overall tone may have steered this forum a little off point… I must reiterate that I agree that things in this country have gotten ugly. I just don’t accept it as OK, or as the new American way. Nor do I agree that somehow cheating is sanctioned in this climate. Yes, I do see the distinction and am perhaps splitting hairs over the delivery of the message. Thanks for acknowledging that we share the dream anyway.
Posted by jefftaylor on Jun 7, 2004 at 1:23 PM Thank you, Jeff. I do think we agree...I am an American “by choice”...not born in US, and I am very sensitive to the definition of the American Dream. What has gotten way out of whack and ugly is the (neocon) idea that “I got mine, and the rest of the poor schlubs...tough ----” (i.e. cut those taxes for the wealthiest, and make the “masses” and our children & grandchildren pay the freight!) Not my idea of the American Dream!
As far as the sanctioning of the ‘cheating’...I view the above as colossal “cheating” of our descendants. Somewhere in the Bible it says: To whom much is given, MUCH is expected. THAT is the American Dream...and it’s still alive.
Thanks for the dialogue, friend.
A.L.
Posted by Amolibri on Jun 7, 2004 at 1:53 PM Well, Jeff, if you take your first comments “Up yours Jackson Lears” and “blathering about America” and, “is probably not American” it’s hard not to think you feel that way about him.
I am, however, quoting the right-wing on the “those who disagree must obviously “hate America”.
I’ve heard it for almost three years now, usually in much nastier terms, because I am a liberal and despise Bush.Yeah, cheating is an American way. Ask a Seminole Indian. Shameful. Jackson didn’t say it was excusable or good. America is still a great place and can be better for everyone if we know how to address the problem. Those were some of the things I got out of the article.
I’m not upset or bear anyone here ill will. I think soy’s comment about oil companies being the biggest “pastries or cakes served after a meal” thieves is hilarious.
Posted by Ammonia D on Jun 8, 2004 at 12:00 AM I’m glad you see my point Amolibri, even through my harsh approach! Funny how those who are “American by choice” have what seems to be a stronger pride and/or understanding about the ideals this Country was founded on than some native born citizens. I think it also comes with an understanding of our history.
Yes Ammonia D, No ill will here either. I am still offended by Jackson Lears’ take on the topic of cheating. He very clearly advocates cheating in his article, be it tongue in cheek or not, I personally don’t appreciate it and I think it dumbs down the topic. Callahan does make reference to something similar to “only a putz plays by the rules” in the first chapter of his book but not in an advocates context.
Ammonia, you clearly assumed much in your response to my first post. I take it you can see that.
More importantly, I agree with you that America is still a great place and that addressing the problems is key to making it even more so. This cheating thing really is a part of our culture. Though certainly not the American Way for heavens sake! A friend of mine pointed out that she disagrees with Callahan that scoundreling about is a new thing. She put it to me that “nothing has changed, people are people” as in maybe cheating is one of man’s less groovy ways… and here goes old broken record “Proud American” again but I like to think of the American Way as a higher standard.
I don’t quite get your (Ammonia D) point about asking a Seminole Indian… cheated out of their land, or does that tribe have a particular take on cheating?
Well, sorry if I offended anyone. Except maybe Jackson Lears. I’m all for Callahan bringing up this topic, it needs to be talked about, but Jackson Lears doesn’t do much justice to it short of bringing it to light in this forum. He puts forth some unnecessary notions in his review of Callahan’s book, which is pretty much all his “article” is… for some reason however he doesn’t mention the book by name and would seemingly have us think that what he is discussing is in part his concept. All he seems to add short of a few references to corporate cheating however is a negative assessment of our Country and the notion that only putz’s don’t cheat. I think he’s the putz.
So Up Yours Jackson Lears! You un-American jerk! ha ha…
-Jeff Taylor
That’s right—Proud American
Posted by jefftaylor on Jun 11, 2004 at 12:58 PM Jeff,
Since when is noting that cheating is rampant the same as endorsing it? That’s like saying someone favors smog because they talk about how thick it is over Los Angeles. And does the concept of “dry humor” or “satire” exist in your world? He was clearly being arch when he said that only putzes cheat in America.
Anyone who would endorse cheating in a publication like In These Times should never grace its pages again. Anyone who thinks someone who throws a light on a practice is endorsing its existence needs to study Jonathan Swift.
Posted by Gasconne on Aug 11, 2004 at 7:56 PM hi Gasconne,
I think I stated at least once in my many rants that I GET IT.
Yes. Clearly he’s being sarcastic. That’s his writing hook for the article. AAAHh! I GOT IT I SAID (LOL)
I do appreciate that he shed some light on the disturbing topic. His sarcastic tone clearly bugged the hell out of me.
Ever heard the term “sarcastic jerk”?
With all due respect I don’t think you read much of the above dialogue or you wouldn’t be implying that I need to read Swift.
OK. I’ll take another look at Jonathan Swift anyway.
By the way, Lears does endorse cheating in the article. Sarcastically, but he does it. Just splitting hairs I know.
So yeh, I think Lears is an ass but he got us talking about the topic… cheers to him for that. Maybe his writing trick I hated so much did the trick!
hmmm… we did spend a lot of time playing squat tag in the asparagus patch over semantics and not a lot of time talking about this ugly culture of cheating. Any thoughts/examples of this that anyone would like to share who happens to read this? I know I’ve been noticing it more since Lears brought it up (again… cheers and jeers Lears). I’ll save my link to this and try to post examples as I notice them.
OK
Aloha,
Jeff
Posted by Jefftaylor on Aug 12, 2004 at 10:22 AM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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