Barack Obama wowed them with his speech during the Democratic National Convention. Not only is he likely to make history as only the third black U.S. senator elected since Reconstruction; pundits already are touting his presidential possibilities. With his probable electoral victory this November, Sen. Obama will join a number of African-American men who are making a real mark on… return to article
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Reader Comments (28)Page 1 of 1 pagesFor many years the U.S. government and the white American culture have turned deaf ears to the pleas of Afro-Descendants for civil rights and human rights. They have ignored the wisdom of Dr. W.E.B. DuBois, the Honorable Marcus Garvey, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Dr. Martin Luther King and Mr. Silis Muhammad. For the past twelve years Mr. Muhammad has spear-headed a legal battle inside the United Nations to establish Human Rights and secure Reparations for all Afro-Descendants in the Western Hemisphere. In numerous interventions before diverse U.N. bodies they have documented how long-term and on-going U.S. government policies of ethnocide and forced assimilation blatantly violate U.N. Covenants. However, the mass media, though well-informed of this Movement, intentionally hides it through non-coverage. In elevating figureheads like Mr. Barack Obama, the power structure wants to breathe hope into a declining political system. However, one Black Senator cannot redeem an inherently unjust system, especially when that sytem consistently fails to address the roots of centuries-old problems and with-holds justice from its victims. Both Senator Kerry and President Bush have rejected Reparations for African-Americans. In Massachusetts the masses of Black and Brown youth are catching more hell this summer while Senator Kerry repeats the hollow words “Help Is On The Way.”
Sincerely,
Malik Al-Arkam
www.AllForReparations.org
Posted by Malik Al-Arkam on Aug 6, 2004 at 5:43 AM The problem with Black Culture
Civil rights came in the 60’s and now is a done deal. Equal opportunity is already a fact, at least for those under 40 or 50 (and in fact more than equal opportunity still exists, in the form of affirmative action, at least until AA dies its natural death). What is not equal is outcomes. This has very little to do with opprotunity, but a great deal to do with black culture. If one models shiftless behaviour to ones children, the outcome is not difficult to forecast. I could go on and on, but it has already been said. See Bill Cosby’s addresses, for instance.
In short, the key problem now is in the family. This applies to all races, but the the largest failure (statistically) falls on the black families.
Posted by ken on Aug 6, 2004 at 8:08 AM The Black Commentator has an article on the confusion of Cosby’s idea of responsibility. Cosby (I’m new here but hopefully tagging works.)
Posted by elita rr on Aug 6, 2004 at 10:05 PM To blame the families for the deplorable disproportion of blacks vs whites who are incarcerated is ridiculous, Bill Cosby notwithstanding. Too many black parents are so discouraged by their own experiences in the white world that they can’t possibly be expected to be strict, strong, hopeful role models for their children. Until this country CARES about what happens to black youth, provides free day care, and above all spends EQUAL amounts of money on schools, sports, after-school programs, early childhood education, tutoring and remedial programs, etc etc. as they do on white children, and until we have a sensible “drug war” program instead of throwing thousands of children in jail (black and white) for minor offenses, the situation won’t change. It’s a disgraceful situation that should make us all ashamed.
Posted by Diana Beliard(I am old and white) on Aug 8, 2004 at 1:27 PM Anyone who believes that civil rights is a done deal has little knowledge of the very real problems facing minorities in the US. It is obvious that anyone who believes that family values is the main problem in the impoverished areas of our country has never actually visited or spent time in those areas. The list of injustices and inadequacies is long and we still have work to do to make civil rights a “done deal”.
Ken, the racism dripping in your commentary is indefensible.
Posted by Brian on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:59 AM I don’t think the ideals of self determination are racist. It is when people turn to large organizations to solve their personal problems that they lose their freedom. The government is neither the cause of the problem facing minorities (and poor whites for that matter) nor the solution. The solution is each person taking responsibility for their own choices.
To help disadvantaged people - regardless of race (which is by and large irrelevant anyway) - teach them to embrace the values that lead to success (hard work, education, personal integrity). To teach them to embrace dependency on the government is to embrace learned helplessness.
What are these bad choices that lead to poverty? Drug and alcohol abuse. Having multiple children out of wedlock. Ridiculing educational success. The list goes on and on.
I would be happy to have the government teach that the things above are wrong. I would be happy to have the government spend our hard earned tax monies providing scholarships to the needy - regardless of race. There is a role for government but it is a supporting role. The real solution lies with the individuals.
Posted by ken on Aug 11, 2004 at 9:27 AM The central thesis of your solution is that those in poverty lack values. That is beyond condescending and is absurdly misguided. The stereotype of lazy welfare mothers and fathers is an exception rather than a rule. The media consistently reports when someone abuses the system but focuses very little on the huge majority of singe parents who work hard for sub-poverty wages. Poverty is not a choice.
The real cause of poverty is lack of jobs that pay enough to keep a family housed, clothed and fed. Is it any wonder that those who have grown up without hope would find immediate satisfaction in the big payday of drug dealing instead of the poverty level wages of McDonalds?
How can these children be educated well when their schools are unsafe, falling apart and unable to hire quality teachers because funds have been cut past the point of return? We hear so often about pulling ourselves up by the bootstraps, but when you are stuck in a quagmire, help is vital!
Posted by brian on Aug 11, 2004 at 10:19 AM Ken, you may be suffering from the syndrome of beliefs based on myth. The government is the cause of many problems, for all races, and particularly those of color. While I agree that “personal responsibility” is a goal to go for, it’s a meme, hawked by those on the Right who seem to think they’ve cornered the market on virtues.
You cite values that lead to success, “hard work, education, personal integrity” which are admirable. However, in reality many of us black folks (and poor of any color) do work hard, respect education, and have personal integrity. The attitude seems to be that if one is “poor” then it’s from a lack of these traits. In my 50+ years, with 5 successful adult children, I have yet to hear a Black denigrate education. There may be some, but no more than any other race/class who, on an individual basis, see themselves as unable and therefore minimize that which they believe is not attainable for them.
Is it possible that substance abuse, out of wedlock births, lack of education are a result of poverty rather than leading to it? If “bad choices” is the road to poverty, then perhaps we should put those CEOs, i.e. Lay, etc. on the road to poverty. Too many (usually white) appreciate the conservative memes of welfare queen, looking to government for handouts, etc. as it absolves them of any responsibility for the ills of society, all the while they shriek “personal responsibility.” When government bails out corrupt corporations, is that a supportive role or a solution? When government secures oil fields, in geopolitical games, for cronies, is that supportive or a solution? We waste our blood and wealth on filling the coffers of a few yet demand the poorest of society to take “personal responsibility.” Sounds like hypocrisy to me. (By the way I have 3 military sons.)
Posted by elita rr on Aug 11, 2004 at 10:24 AM Elitarr - what made you and your children different? Was it that you taught them to take care of themselves, to grow up to be responsible adults? Not use use drugs? Did you value education in your home?
Brian - what fraction of those in poverty do you think got there by making bad choices such as the ones i mentioned in my firt post (single Mom’s - particularily if never married - being one of the root causes)? I put the number well over 50%. And do you really excuse their bad behaviour because it provides immediate gratification? (Where i live, the disadvantaged schools get more $$$ per student that the “good” schools, and do much MUCH worse. Why? The parents! At the “bad” schools, 5 parents show up for PTA meetings, at a similarly sized “good” ones, over a 100. At the “bad” schools if a white teacher disiplines a child, s/he is racist. The cause is both clear and stark.) (Not that it matters, but i occasionally go read to students at disadvantaged schools, knowing that setting an example is more powerful than anything i could write here. I highly recommend it to anyone seriously wanting to make a difference.)
It is a rare thing for someone in this society to work hard, value education and still not get ahead (not to say they would not work at McDonalds, but if they worked hard they would make manager and if they had ambition, they might even find a better job eventually). The single largest exception would be caused by divorces, which are often a matter of personal choice. . . (another exception is those with chronic diseases, such as MS). Race as an excuse simply does not cut it.
I wish i could say that blacks here valued education, but i don’t like to lie. Some do, but many many don’t. Just as teenage pregnancy spread from the black ommunity to the larger community, so is the black eschewing of education moving to society at large.
Also i note that poverty today is not what it used to be. From the statistics i have seen, most people in poverty have color tv’s, cable, a car and would be considered middle class 60 years ago. Perhaps the problem is partially expectations increasing faster than our standard of living?
BTW, i think Lay is on his way to poverty now.
Posted by ken on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:30 PM Why is Ken “racist” for pointing out statistics? I agree with the lot of y’all: there are serious discrepencies/disparities between the “haves” and “have nots”. Especially in my state - Illinois - the way education is “funded” is virtually criminal, and certainly immoral. Relying as heavily on the local tax base as it does, it all but guarantees those kids in the poorest neighborhoods get a sub-standard education in comparison to their richer counterparts in the suburbs.
HOWEVER… there does seem to be an epidemic of fatherless households in poor communities. As the article points out, 1 in 4 black males are in prison up to age 40. Folks, you can’t lay all that on “the man”!!
As Cosby pointed out, at some point you have to pull up the bootstraps and take some fucking responsibility for yourself and family. In no way does this excuse the blatant discrimination that continues to this day, or eliminate the need to fight it robustly. NOT AT ALL!!
But, culturally there are issues. I think if there were some REAL leaders in the black community, as opposed to Jesse “Where’s the camera?” Jackson, people would actually have someone to look up to.
Personally, I think an Obama-Cosby ticket is right on!!
Posted by G-love on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:35 PM I suppose what made my family “different” is I was born to an environment of money, travel, opportunity, have a career, and married well, hence myself and my children had opportunities many children do not (of any color).
One thing I’ve noticed where I’m living now, small town mid south, is a lot of poverty. Certainly there are black unwed welfare mothers. Just as certain, I note that while white Peggy Sue may be married to Bubba, she’s on welfare of some sort while Bubba usually draws a check for a bad back, bum knee, or “mental” problems. Nothing horrendously physically wrong, just enough to collect a check and sit on the sofa. Usually all the kids are on Ritalin, Adderall, by age 4, sometimes the children too get a check of some sort. They’re very representative of the typical poor white intact family in my area. However, I don’t attach the stigma of lazy deadbeat couples to all whites or that all little white children I see are doped up by kindergarten. Nor search for stats to juggle and support my viewpoint or liberal shills to invent slogans for me. I also see many hard working poor, black and white, married and single, living pay check to pay check simply for the minimum of comforts.
Can anyone honestly believe Kenny Boy will receive more than a fine and slap on the wrist? Can you see him in Attica being someone’s bitch? Ending his days in poverty and want?
To suggest that teen pregnancy and devaluation of education has “spread” from the black community to the larger community is quite a stretch. Since when were Blacks empowered to set the mores of society at large? Is this how “responsibility” is taken by whites? By laying the blame for social problems on the spread of Black morality? I think the only thing that’s “clear and stark” is the subtley of white racism these days.
Posted by elita rr on Aug 11, 2004 at 2:03 PM I find Oscar Wilde clarifies things quite a bit more than Bill Cosby:
“Really, if the lower orders don’t set us a good example, what on earth is the use of them? They seem, as a class, to have no sense of moral responsibility.”
Posted by Brian Cook on Aug 11, 2004 at 2:31 PM Wilde also stated that his aim in life had been self-realization through pleasure. We’re all hedonistic, but few admit it.
Posted by elita rr on Aug 11, 2004 at 2:46 PM Elitarr -
I am sorry if i falsely ascribed (at least in my own mind) your personal success to hard work, and missed the mark because you were merely born lucky. As the saying goes “luck beats skill every time” (i’m a tennis player).
I am against supporting a bum Bubba - especially one who drugs their kids due to laziness. Shouldn’t all of us condemn this type of irresponsible behaviour, rather than using it to justify other bad bahaviours (if that was your point)? Or worse yet, government intervention? Isn’t this just another case of bad lifestyle choices causing poverty - in support of my original assertion?
The solution to the problem of “living paycheck to paycheck” is straightforward and available to all except the very poorest of the poor. Live below your means. Spend 90%, save 10%. It takes discipline, but it obviously can be done. It is how we can gain economic freedom in a personal sense.
The phrase “teenage pregnancy spread from the black ommunity to the larger community” is merely meant to be a description of what happened, just look at the stats and decide for yourself. Anyway, much of black culture has spread to the mainstream, such as musical influences, both good and bad. It is not unusual to hear rap music coming for the car next to me, driven by white teens.
And while it may be true that whatever remmants of white racism still exist are subtle, the same cannot be said of black racism (and misogyny, for that matter).
Posted by ken on Aug 11, 2004 at 3:17 PM Ken,
I don’t believe I stated I was “merely born lucky.” I did say I was born to an environment conducive to opportunity, and worked hard to have more. Nor do I use Bubba to excuse Tyrone. I would point out perhaps Bubba should clean his own house before tossing stones at Tyrone’s. To claim “bad lifestyle choices” as a blanket reason for poverty is silly. Many wealthy have made bad lifestyle choices yet are never overtaken by poverty or prison. Would a Tyrone Janklow have received 100 days for killing someone b/c of DUI? Would junkie Malik Limbaugh still be walking free? Would a Denzel Bush have gotten off so easily with walking away from the NG?Would that I could convince all to save 10 percent, shut off that cable, stop buying the TVs, ride a bike more, etc. Woe to GE, ExxonMobile, etc. when they do.
Perhaps it’s before you’re time, but I recall Madonna mastubating on stage before rap music permeated the airwaves, and more recently swapping tongues with Spears. There is good political rap music that gets little attention. I’m hard pressed to believe rap music has brought all society down. I have looked at the stats for teen pregnacy and agree yes it’s a problem, especially in the black and latino communities. I also believe a large part of society’s acceptance of the problem began with Hollywood’s single mother’s, i.e. Goldie Hawn, Madonna. No that doesn’t excuse the single mother problem, but perhaps the old “rolls down hill” fits here, or the trickle down effect.
As for black racism, that’s another myth sold to those eager to be free of responsibility. Sure there are Blacks who hate whites, whites who hate Blacks, etc. But what separates white racism from any other form is that white society has the power to demonize, imprison, destroy, while Blacks have no such societal power. The dominant social group can deploy power against others with impunity. Deny a bank loan, redline a neighborhood, deny a job, deny a rental, studies show it goes on. Nor are poor whites stereotyped as lazy, shiftless, dangerous, the way poor Blacks are.
I know first hand I’ve had to work harder, prove myself doubly, to have the respect that would have been afforded a white woman for less effort. Almost daily I’m expected to represent my entire race. A white on the other hand can be rude or vulgar or anything else and that’s attributed to the individual. That’s often not true for people of color.
Life has improved in many ways, I remember Whites Only fountains. But racism is only a “remnant” in the mind of certain people, most of us know it’s alive and well. Misogyny? The type that sings about beating bitches, or the type that Peterson and Hacking practice? Or if you’re old enough, Jeffrey McDonald. It wasn’t Blacks who had a shirt name for them (wife-beater). Misogyny is not a characteristic exclusive to Blacks. I know many successful Black families and we won’t accept responsibility for the decay of white society.
Posted by elita rr on Aug 11, 2004 at 4:47 PM Ken,
It is obvious that you have no concept of poverty in the US’s inner cities (or rural areas for that matter!). Those who made “bad choices” are far fewer than you would guess. And, one has to understand that poverty is a vicious circle that strips hope from each subsequent generation.
I can’t even begin to address your level of ignorance with regards to this. You seem to have completely bought into the Republican propoganda of welfare mothers who get pregnant to stay on welfare. I wonder if you have ever talked to anyone who is really living in poverty? Even a family farm that is struggling to survive?
You have the absurdity to say that McDonald’s offers impoverished people a way out of their poverty. At $5.15 an hour? Who do you know can afford to live on $5.15 an hour in the hopes that someday (OH JOY!) they’ll make shift manager? At $5.15 per hour and 40 hours per week (who do you know at McDs that gets scheduled 40/wk other than managers?) a person will gross, GROSS, $10,718 per year. That’s ridiculous! How can we be called civilized when you can wprk 40 hours per week and still be under the poverty level? By the way, you can replace McDs with any fast food or retailer who undervalues their employees.
It is so easy to view the landscape from an ivory tower and rain down ideas that, if you had any knowledge of the world outside the tower, are completely ridiculous. I wonder if you are capable of leaving the tower and understanding the world at large?
Posted by Brian on Aug 11, 2004 at 8:20 PM I have to agree with Elitarr that it is going to take a major cultural shift to weaken the power and draw of materialism like cable TV, electronics (how ironic!) and cars. It would take a great uproar to get car manufacturers to improve emmissions standards and make real strides in hybrid engine development. And even more an uproar to make TV a resource instead of an addiction.
Thanks for your wise words, Elitarr.
Posted by Brian on Aug 11, 2004 at 8:25 PM Brian -
What Ken may be overlooking, is the word “opportunity” which I used in my posts. Or perhaps he defines opportunity as working hard at Wal-Mart or McD, in which case the discussion is closed. For millions of Americans, I have witnessed “opportunity” shrink for 3 decades, through no fault of the people. With social unrest, it’s the usual suspects, the Poor, the Color, the Immigrants. But, it’s hard to penetrate memes and minds of those who need a goat to stake to the post.
Posted by elita rr on Aug 11, 2004 at 9:27 PM Brian and elitarr -
One might ask where opinions are formed. Mine are formed from growing up “poor”. Poor as in having a small b&w;tv, when everyone else had color consoles (i was born in 1960). Poor as in eating lots of beans and franks (which my mother detested and i liked, being a kid and all). Poor as in living in the “bad” part of town. Poor as in having a dad work 2-3 jobs, trying to make ends meet. Poor as having begun working at 14 (at an animal clinic cleaning cages, and later many other “menial” jobs). Poor as being able to get (small but very helpful) BEOG grants and go to college while working at fast food places. And seeing many others in similar circumstances - some of which did very well (as did i) others who did very poorly - and much in between.
So i speak not from Republican propagada, but from personal experience. For better or worse.
I see no reason to blame anyone or excuse anyone. In my world i see problems and i see solutions. Waiting around for someone else to solve ones own problems leads to learned helplessness. Surely we can agree that it is better to teach people to strive to improve themselves? To take responsiblity for their choices, both good and bad. As many people have done, and done very successfully.
Posted by ken on Aug 12, 2004 at 6:53 AM Thanks elitarr for modeling a voice of wisdom in complexity.
Posted by jen on Aug 12, 2004 at 8:19 AM Ken-
I disagree that there is no reason to blame anyone. I blame a corporocultural campaign that soaks Americans with the mentality that greed is good, that consumerism and materialism are roads to happiness. There is so much shame in this country attached to being “poor”, humble, a lowly wage earner, not having the physical and material appearances of living large and beautiful. A nation of image with no substance. In a sane healthy culture people wouldn’t have to be taught to “improve themselves,” it would be a given if that is what surrounds them. Everyone (at least a majority) setting a good example. Regarding taking responsibility for choices, I think the masses looked up one day and recognized the ruling elite are rarely, if ever, held accountable so why should they be.I blame the corporate culture which uses any propaganda necessary to seduce the masses to crave more and more while moving manufacturing and now service type employment overseas. I blame a nation of leaders who preach the same trite morality speeches while legalizing the numbers racket (lottery), enforcing 2 sets of law (one for the haves best attorney and one for havenots), winking and grinning at corruption all the way to the offshore bank, helping themselves to the national treasury while condeming the poor as lazy. I blame a nation of middle and upper class who have no empathy for those below (in fact “blame” those with less as being the problem), and would literally kill to climb a rung higher on the ladder. I blame 2+ decades of leadership that has endorsed the idea that fat, dumb, and (un)happy is okay and we can whip anybody anywhere because we can. We’ve taken the potential given us and produced a nation of self-absorbed wannabees who always have an “ism” to “whup up on” to feel good about ourselves.
I blame the mouthpeices who shill that my form of dissent and discontent with my own country is “anti-American” or “Blame America First” and all the current labels applied to anyone who doesn’t worhip at the hooves of current b.s. I blame 2+ decades of leaders who chumped us into a nation devoid of compassion, replacing it with price tags and sadistic bravado.
(Your welcome Jen.)
Posted by elita rr on Aug 12, 2004 at 11:48 AM elitarr -
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. In my life, blame is worse than useless. It takes away our self responsibility, and tries to make us powerless. In my life, we make choices and then are accountable for these choices. We choose to save, we build wealth. We choose to overspend, we become indentured servants. Just as sure as if we overeat, we get fat. . . even if we tell ourselves it is the ads making us do so, even if we tell ourselves it is not our fault.
I don’t agree with your assessment that their is no empathy for the poor. But help to the poor can come in a variety of ways. One can teach that destructive habits and attitudes are self defeating, or alternatively one can teach it is society’s fault. One path leads to improvement, the other to bitterness and defeat.
I believe that each act in our lives can be an act of improvement. Or not.
Anyway, i appreciate your sharing your views with me in such a patient and cogent fashion. May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be at your back.
Posted by ken on Aug 12, 2004 at 12:27 PM Ken
I’m debating at the moment whether to retire to Costa Rica or a kinder/gentler climate but do have grandchildren with a stake in American society. I do work to change for the better the community within my reach. You’re very subtle with black and white choices, innuendo, i.e. “teach it is society’s fault” the path that leads to “bitterness and defeat.” I’ve mentioned subtlety previously though.I think “bitterness and defeat” is what’s happening to American society, due to the collective habits and attitudes I mentioned earlier. Yes, we should all live within our budget, even government, lest we all become indentured servants. I’m heady with delight thinking of all the benefits if the masses lived within their means, but again, woe to corporate dividends when we do.
I too appreciate the civility of our exchanges.
Posted by elita rr on Aug 12, 2004 at 1:41 PM Ken…
While I can appreciate your point of view as one who’s been there and risen above it (congratulations!), it assumes all other things being equal. I’m well familiar with the “I’ve done it, why can’t you?” logic. This is all very fine, but, of those amongst whom you grew up with, how many others managed to do what you did? What made you different? We are not all born with equal strengths and abilities…
Posted by kenmo on Aug 12, 2004 at 4:15 PM Ken,
I grew up eating hamburger helper, dad working two jobs, mom working on and off to help with the family debt, etc. I never considered my family poor. We struggled sometimes, but we were never poor. My parents tended to enrich our lives with their love rather than money and materialism. I was lucky that way! That was the reality of my growing up during the inflation of the 1970s. I don’t pretend to know where you came from, but to extrapolate your experience to the experience of all who are poor is fallacious reasoning.
I was never one step away from homelessness like so many poor today. I never had to deal with the level of violence so prevalent today in ALL facets of society. I never had to worry about drug dealers in my neighborhood or getting caught in a crossfire. I never had to worry about getting pulled over or not getting hired because of the color of my skin. I never had to struggle with learning a new language in a new and strange country after escaping horrible atrocities in my home country.
Tell me, where is the hope in a situation like that if there is not someone there on a regular basis to offer some kind of help or choice?
Minimum wage is not a choice, it’s a sentence.
Posted by Brian on Aug 12, 2004 at 8:52 PM Ken,
I wrote this message earlier in response to your comments regarding the Kurt Vonnegut article but I think it bares repeating. You are a fool, and the worst kind of fool. A fool who does not realize he’s a fool. To everyone else, try going to your local mental hospital and have a talk with some of the inmates. Some of them appear quite rational at first, compelling even, and many beleive their own dellusions with a rock solid determination. It would be literally impossible to talk them out of their stance. So it would, in a way, be insane to get sucked into their world, would it not?This I think is what has happened with politics and the right wing dominated media here in America. The lunatics have taken over the asylum, and we’re trying to reason with them like they’re normal people. We are in fact projecting our own sanity and humanity onto them. Which explains also why people are so often sucker punched be these idiots, they just can’t believe someone would be that nasty, selfish, stupid or insane?
Yep, the Nazis 60 yrs ago, Republicans now, and old uncle Burt who thinks he’s Napoleon. They’re all criminally insane, and we would, I think, do well to bare this in mind when talking to them. They have no regard for human life, American or non-American (can someone please tell me the difference by the way) unless its a foetus, and will continue acting out their dellusions until physically stopped. Roll on November.
P.S. If I have offended anyone, sue me. This is what free speech is all about. Bush hasn’t rigged his second term in power quite yet.
Posted by Matilda on Aug 13, 2004 at 3:34 AM kenmo -
I freely admit that much of my good fortune springs from luck. I was lucky enough to be born in the US. I was lucky enough to have good genes, allowing me to pursue a science degree. I was lucky enough to have parents that loved me and taught me to be responsible for myself.
Of those that did poorly in similar circumstances as me (and i certainly was not the product of crushing poverty - just lower middle class), most who failed failed due to bad choices. Substance abuse was pretty common. Selling drugs to make a quick profit or stealing was also common. I guess the general category was the inability to delay gratification and take a longer view. . .
Brian -
(I would be very interested in your response to kenmo’s questions above, as a source of comparison to my own personal observations. It appears that we came from similar backgrounds. . .)
I believe that most anyone in this country has a pretty good shot at “success”. From what you write, although your parents were living in very modest conditions and working very hard to maintain that, they knew what to value. It isn’t the dollar - it is people. That is what i would extrapolate to everyone, everywhere who has *enough* - even if enough does not come with a color TV and cable (although that seems to come standard in the US to people in “poverty”, according to all the stats i have seen).
Once you leave the first world, then all bets are off. To the unfortunates growing up (or more likely dying) in the Sudan and other similar places, i have nothing but compassion. I realize that some people really have no choice. But to those here, in the US, they have opportunity. They merely have to avail themselves of it. I admit there are exceptions (e.g., the mentally deficient, along with those who currently live in crushing poverty), but believe the number is small, percentage wise.
Perhaps the disconnect is that we know there are people in poverty, therefore it has to be someone’s fault. To place the “blame” (responsibility) on them is to blame the “victim”. This seems very similar to the current attempt to blame the fast food industry for the prevalence of obesity in society today. Whose fault is it if we get fat? Our own? Or society’s? (Or perhaps some combination?) Regardless of the answer to the question, it seems clear to me that the *solution* lies with the individual, even if society is non-optimal (do we ever expect society to be completely optimal? Or can we even agree what that would mean?). This is my main point. It is meant to be a hopeful thing, not a condemnation of anyone. Just a way out.
At the risk of being tedious and somewhat repetitive, whose fault is it if we cannot read (for this, let’s assume i am referring to people born in the US, not recent immigrants)? Can we “blame” the school system or society at large? And if we do, are we saying that the illiterates amongst us should wait around while we as a society come up with a solution to their problems (which may or may not ever happen)? Or should they hunker down and make the effort - preferably before they have kids so that they can pass on this essential ability?
In my opinion, the ability to believe one is responsible for one’s own fate is an extremely liberating way to think. Even while knowing that it is a fiction, at least to some degree (who can deny the influence of luck?).
If we teach that people have no choice, and they belive it, we have done them a huge disservice! At least it seems that way to me.
Matilda -
You obviously have very strong opinions. Many people do, some that are similar to yours, others that differ. This does not make the others bad, they simply have different experiences that lead them to different conclusions.
I do not believe that rudeness benefits anyone. What i teach my children is that one persons bad behaviour is not justified by someone else’s bad behaviour.
I subscribe to the idea that understanding other pov’s is useful, even when i do not agree with them (and who knows, even if i don’t agree today, perhaps i will tomorrow).
I guess a piece of my philosophy could be stated as: when treated with kindness, always return kindness. When treated with hostility, again return kindness. Like all my philosophical beliefs, which i strive to follow, i sometimes succeed, other times fail. But perhaps the key is not so much in succeeding, but in trying . . .
Posted by ken on Aug 13, 2004 at 8:07 AM Ken,
you make me ‘laugh-out-loud’. I said you were mentally ill not bad (though the distinction can blur at the outer extremes). I really think right wing people in general have lost their humanity. And yes, it can happen on a national scale (re: Nazi Germany). I truly hope I am very wrong, but I suspect I’m not.P.S and what is all that silly stuff about kindness. I’ve heard you talk about “the crazies in the MidEast” in response to another article on this site. Yes, all I hear coming from your, and Lord Bush’s, mouth is kindness. Please, spare me. You are mentally ill, I’m sure of it, and that’s not an insult. Just a fact.
Posted by Matilda on Aug 13, 2004 at 1:03 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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