The red-faced man slows his shopping cart of empty beer cans and stares in disbelief at the white form just thrust into his hand. “I can’t,” he mutters, shaking a head of unkempt, yellowish hair. “They told me I can’t.” Caylor Roling, a tall, bespectacled young woman, who chased down her new friend through a crowded Food 4 Less parking… return to article
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Reader Comments (29)Page 1 of 1 pagesUnfortunately, Dan Frosh did not mention the state with the most severe restrictions on felon’s voting rights,Florida,where the President’s brother, Jeb Bush, reigns as Governor. The thousands uppon thousands of ex-felons, mostly black and Democrat-leaning, would have ensured Gore’s election if they were allowed to go to the polls. Florida’s ex-felons are barred from voting FOR LIFE, unless they have their civil rights restored in a complex and rarely successful process. I’m amazed that Kerry’s advisors have not more strongly stressed this issue; “ Taxation without Representation” and a ‘pseudo-Democracy’ where a percentage of its citizens are disenfranchised on undefined and problematical grounds.
Posted by Art Candell on Aug 11, 2004 at 4:44 AM why not post rules about voting for felons
state by state with phone numbers of those in charge. let that be the beginning of a bible
Posted by francine haselkorn on Aug 11, 2004 at 9:04 AM Florida used to be know as the State of sunshine, orange groves, pelicans, and sandy beaches. I loved it and lived in Florida for several years. But, no more is it a respected state. When I think of Florida now, I immediately think of it as the most corrupt state in the Union, and all because of the Bush Governor and the corrupt Bush family influence. How could this have happened in this country? It is such a sad time for our country because of the Bushies and their corporate greed for even more power and influence and their smear campaigns against anyone who should so dare try and defeat Dubba and put an end to at least some of his policies. After all, he’s not near through lining his and his GOP corporate friends’ pockets. Dubba has so far successfully gotten away with pushing his agenda for his GOP taking over this country that who is to think that a problem of ex-felons’ restoration of voting rights can be solved in Florida, especially. It will only be more subversive this November.
Posted by BN Rodgers on Aug 11, 2004 at 9:06 AM Why would we want felons to vote? Is it really a great thing to be the party of felons?
Posted by ken on Aug 11, 2004 at 9:37 AM Can you follow up by listing what states allow and which do not? That’s important information, I think! Especially since people will likely have a hard time finding out the truth from their governments.
Valerie
Posted by Valerie on Aug 11, 2004 at 10:15 AM Felons are still citizens. If you don’t want them to vote, why still accept their taxes?
Posted by Cho on Aug 11, 2004 at 10:20 AM I wrote the first comment this morning re: Dan Frosch’s piece. Regarding some responses.
1. 4.9 million Anmericans are disenfranchised from voting due to felony convictions. Amazingly, ONE IN EVERY FIFTY AMERICANS!!!
2. 14 states bar felons from EVER voting again.
3. Among these, activists are attempting to overturn this in Alabama, Delaware,Florida, Nevada and Virginia ( Obviously a hopeless task if the Republicans continue in power). A bill was introduced in Congress to allow freed felons to vote in federal elections. It was being sponsored in the house ( The Civic Participation and Rehabilitation Act of 1999, H.R.906) by Rep. John Conyers, D. Mich, and in the Senate by Sen. Harry Reid, D. Nev. (S.2666) I don’t know results.
Posted by Art Candell on Aug 11, 2004 at 11:09 AM Dan Frosch;
Below you will find the copy of the letter I sent to Ken questioning a felons right to vote.I enjoyed your article and there sould be more and more educating of prisoners as to what their rights are as well as those who are expected to protect these rights. All too often a man or woman will spend years behind bars and suddenly find themselves once again in the free world with absolutely no idea what rights they have or what they can expect. If they are going to lock a person up and take their rights and privileges then it is no mor than right that they also upon their release explain to them what they can expect.
Thank you for a very informative article.Ken;
I do not know what your education is in regards to people ending up in prison and surrendering all their rights. Evidently you do not know just how very easy it is for someone to end up behind bars and evidently you have not been following the news and are aware of how masny people have been released fron Death Row after they have been found innocent. Once a person leaves prison he or she is expected to live a law abiding and tax paying life. If you do not have the right to vote, why then, should you be expected to pay taxes. Hopefully you will never find yourself in that situation, I could not wish it upon my worst enemy.
Greybeard
Posted by Greybeard on Aug 11, 2004 at 11:10 AM I’m an ex-felon, college graduate, father of three 20-somethings one of which is a firefighter, one is a scholarship student at SOSU, and one is a bike mechanic/ski & board tech at a local shop and a sponsored snowboarder. I’ve been a business owner for the last 13 years and PAYING those taxes, and a home owner and landlord and PAYING those taxes. I read (unlike our current president) and stay informed on the issues. I support the Constitution and Bill of Rights, will disagree with both Dem and Rep on the issues, and have missed one election in my life due to my felony conviction (I was on probation at the time). I’ve paid my debt to society and to my victim.
Ken, you don’t think I should be allowed to vote? I EXECT to be treated as an intelligent, educated man. Remember, this country was founded by men who refused to be taxed WITHOUT representation. Don’t tax me, no income tax or property tax or even sales tax if I’m not allowed to vote. It’s plainly un-American and you wouldn’t want to be seen as that, would you?
Posted by seal on Aug 11, 2004 at 11:46 AM Good article, but where’s the beef? What are the states that permit thoes that have paid their debt to society to vote?
Posted by John J Plair on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:14 PM These are voices we have managed to silence. The one group that can be ‘controlled’. Being silenced has long been a tradition...denying suffrage to African-Americans and women, non-property holders, illiterates, etc. Public outrage changed that. Without discussing the crimes and circumstances, and denying the vote, again some are silenced. This is not democracy. And now in the age of the Patriot Act, the number of disfranchised is increasing.
Posted by mari on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:41 PM Seal -
I have no objection to you voting. I would favor felons being allowed to vote after they paid they debt to society and their victims. I would prefer that they had to reapply for the vote, rather than getting it automatically (but this is just a preference). I would not work to make this happen, but i would not oppose it.
And if i were a political party, i would not want to be the party of felons (but anyway, i am an independent who flirts with pragmatic Libertarianism).
Greybeard - i don’t think you can wake up one morning and just become a felon. I think you have to do something seriously wrong first. My apologies to the very few (percentage wise anyway) wrongly convicted men and women out there).
Posted by ken on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:48 PM To those who are asking which states allow/don’t allow felons to vote and other interesting details regarding this hot button issue, go to GOOGLE and type in > felons voting <. many interesting websites and commentary appertaining.
Posted by Art on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:50 PM Good article. I’ve always had a problem with this being a jury-rigged democracy in the first place. Even if we can vote our choice is no choice. The real power in this country is with thoes who have the power to appoint and I wasn’t suprised to see Kerry come out of nowhere against all odds to become the person to continue the Bush wars once Bush can’t possibly win. Its as if the fix is in. Voters are disenfranchised so bad, in so many ways and even if that doesn’t work the rich and powerful just step in and decide our elections for us instead of counting our votes. Now our voting machines are a wizard of Oz sham with no audit trail or means of re-counting. No wonder our foreign policy pays only lip service to the idea of democracy, while proping up dictators who keep their people in line. We obviously would be a completely different nation if we ourselves were actually a democracy. Let’s tear the lid off this can of worms.
Posted by Davol on Aug 11, 2004 at 12:59 PM Here is the link:
http://www.westernprisonproject.org/StateInfo.html
Posted by Billy on Aug 12, 2004 at 2:02 AM I have a friend who has been in prison for the 12 years that I have known him, and yes, Ken, he did something very wrong. During his time in, he has held a job as a lay advocate, helping other inmates navigate the prison system’s regulations and “forms in triplicate.”
When he is released next year, he will be 40 years old. He has never used a computer, he has never used a cell phone, he will have to fight to prove himself to a college, to an employer, and to a landlord.
On the other hand, he will have served his full sentence, assigned to him through due process, by a representative of the people. That means that he’s already proven himself to the government. He doesn’t need to, “reapply to vote,” because he has done his time and paid his dues. Do I care who he votes for after that? Not really; it’s not my business. But you can bet that not only will I be meeting him at the door of that prison when he’s released, I’ll be there with a coffee maker for his new apartment, and whatever information he needs to re-register as a voter.
As an independent, I think that both parties have missed the opportunity of gaining these voters for their side. Libertarians might not want to be seen as the Party of Felons, but then don’t cry when those released, re-registered ex-cons vote for someone who did demonstrate some care about their circumstances.
That’s what this is all about, after all: bringing those who have been disenfranchised back into mainstream life. Because if don’t start making some efforts to do so, we’re going to see record recidivism rates to go along with our record rates of incarceration.
Posted by Mel on Aug 12, 2004 at 6:20 AM The correct web address is: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/restorevote/
Posted by Margaret on Aug 12, 2004 at 7:17 AM Actually a better analysis and article than Frosch’s with more detailed salient points on the disenfranchisment of felons can be found at the below website. Check it out.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Election_Reform/Felon_Disenfranchisement.html
Posted by Art on Aug 12, 2004 at 7:54 AM Mel -
You are to be commended for being a good friend. I hope your buddy can take his life and turn it around to be something that is productive and allows him to be happy. I am a strong believer in the principle of people helping other people, one person at a time.
Davol - while i admit that the system has its flaws, i subscribe to the old adage: “it is the worst system there is, except all the rest”. That said, i also see too little difference between Kerry and Bush.
Posted by ken on Aug 12, 2004 at 8:11 AM Ken:
You wrote:
“That said, I also see too little difference between Kerry and Bush.”
Kinda seems to me that one of them is insane, deceitful, and self-serving… don’t those make difference enough? ;-)
To be sure, policy-wise they are quite similar on a few issues although there is a difference of degree. There are other issues however where they are quite far apart.
And of course the Dem party strategists seem keen to bend over backwards to reassure business that they pose no threat to them, and to appeal to the conservative element of the undecideds.
I remain unconvinced that this strategy will actually work though… doesn’t seem to be working with you, does it? :-)
Anyhow, keep on with the challenging posts, Ken. There are many like-minded people in America today, and we liberals sure need the debating practice :-)
Posted by kenmo on Aug 12, 2004 at 5:32 PM Ken,
The right to vote is not yours, or anyone elses, to give or take away. No more than the right to life and freedom. You, and the rest of the republican party, are all mentally ill in my opinion. Democracy is not, never has been, and never will be a luxury to be denied to people who you disapprove of.
Why stop with ex convicts? Why not repeal the vote for women and blacks. They are after all genetically inferior to white men aren’t they? Come on, show your true colors, you and I both know this is what you secretly believe. I have heard you respond to other articles on this site by describing yourself as having “good genes”.
Also, to say that you can see little difference between Kerry and Bush is basically a vote for Bush. If elected in November GEORGE BUSH WILL START MORE WARS! Kerry, and this would be obvious to a bright child, has nothing like the same agenda. The lesser of two evils is always the LESSER of two evils. Please, see a doctor.
Posted by Matilda on Aug 14, 2004 at 1:08 AM Hey! We’re wandering far afield from the original subject! Don’t worry about Ken. If he subscribes to IN THESE TIMES, he’s a closet Democrat who likes to stir up hot button issues.
So, to continue on another hot button subject:
Why is MOTHER JONES so successful in filling up its copies with lucrative advertising and IN THESE TIMES only attracting a few inelegant, inartistic, advertisers?
Posted by Art on Aug 14, 2004 at 5:20 AM Why *shouldn’t* felons vote?
Why should they be punished in that particular way, a way that makes this country less of a democracy?
A lot of people seem to assume that there is some compelling reason for them not to vote, but I can’t think of one.
Even a serial murderer may care about education and have good ideas about tax laws.
In some states all U.S. citizens *can* vote, even people in prison. Can most people name those states offhand (presumably because of their horrible state and local governments)? Of course not.
Prisoners are human beings and should be treated as such.
Besides, the real felons, the *big-time* thiefs and mass murderers, and those who rig and steal elections, will never be prosecuted. Instead many of them are appointed to judge or govern others.
Glitz
Posted by Glitz on Aug 16, 2004 at 1:39 PM Geez! Ex-felons are likely to vote for Kerry. Another insight of yours: dogs are likely to bite letter carriers. Many remarks at this site are representative of the Statist thinking prevalent in contemporary American society, no doubt a reflection of the public school system’s brainwashing and stifling of independent thinking. Do you really think you are “free?” You fool yourself indeed: our public schools allegedly aim to teach students to think independently, think for oneself, etc. The minute the student does, he/she is labeled as politically incorrect. It happens in adulthood as well. Remember: If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all. America needs fewer laws, not more prisons.
Posted by miles on Oct 4, 2004 at 8:23 AM I, too, had assumed, like most people, I think, that felons lost their voting rights for life. This was perhaps once true for everyone everywhere in this country, but things have changed and I suppose rightly so. A childhood friend of the family always told us as kids that he had lost the right to vote because he blew up a mail box/post office as a wild and crazy youth. Well, why should I care if the majority of felons upon release are allowed to vote? Fine, but do I really want Jeffery Dahmer or other killers voting? or rapists ,sex offenders or drug “Kingpins”? how about Sirhan Sirhan, Charles Manson? the Oklahoma City bombers?
On the other hand there are many people who have been prisoners who are valuable to all of us as people and normal citizens, so let the Democrats register them since they will most likely register as Democrats but let the Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists have their vote too! The Democrats need to reap some more voters and they will register anyone they can. I understand in Chicago they have had Dead People voting for years and in California they let illegal aliens exercise their rights too. I have never changed my registration as a Democrat but I haven’t voted for many of them since Jimmy Carter.
As to any of Bush’s detractors
yes, he isn’t the smartest man to have been in the White House. Probably Wilson and Clinton hold that distinction....BUT he is smarter than Ted Kennedy, Dukakis, Mario Cuomo, Al Gore,and well, you get the idea. Because of my long association with Democrats I notice how quick they are to blame the
Republicans for every fault: Florida has had several lifetimes to fix their voting problems under any number of Democratic Governors and Texans had Ann Richardson et al. before Bush and had plenty of opportunity to fix things. The fact is that they don’t really want to “fix” things even if they are in Majority because they would be out of things to blame on the Republicans and that is a major stategy for them. “Don’t get people off welfare- keep them poor and dependent on the Democratic Dole. We know what happens when they become successful and better off, they may become
Republicans.” Some Union organizers(SEIU) rue the day they have a Democratic administration: they lose focus. well I guess I had something to get off my chest… gb
Posted by Galen on Nov 5, 2004 at 8:29 PM Who do we write to that can look at some of the prison reform programs that are going to save (and I quote) $10,000 per inmate with simple changes in their state corrections system? Like, for example Arizona. It is just beyond me that when we look at figures like can be found here:
http://vera.org/publication_pdf/226_431.pdf
OR here:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1214prisonbeds14.html
Professor Berman has a great wealth of information and links to current debates and insights into truth in sentencing, the Blakely/Booker/Fanfan discussions and other prison related and criminal justice related information. I’d like to say that Mr and Mrs Average America is under the mistaken impression that “those people in prison” don’t affect their lives. So wrong. Take the latest figures of 2.2 million in our prison system. Multiply that by at least 5 friends/family members(very low estimate!) - that’s 11 million people affected by the prison system personally! Now, take the figures which are overwhelming since enactment of the sentencing guidelines in the eighties - and we’re dealing with all kinds of over extension, state to state and in the fed. What’s the answer? Parole, both federal and state - correcting our inmates in the correctional system, so that they might have a chance at making it back in society? -concentrating on a real solution to an over burdened, over crowded prison system in ALL states. Who do we contact? Who can make a difference in my state of Florida? Or YOUR state?
My son was 22 when he was arrested for “conspiracy”, in violation of USC 18. Conspiracy brought him 188 months, after his juvenile possession of marijuana charged was accepted as proof of career offender status. No drugs in his possession, no sales to an agent - but conspiracy. THAT means that under the 85% law (courtesy of the sentencing guidelines) he will spend about 13 years in the prison system. Because of overcrowding and understaffing here (as in most prison systems) - he’ll have virtually no chance of education, a program to help him get ready to leave prison when he’s almost 40 years old, or skills to help him cope with a society that will have changed drastically.
Who do we write to? How can we make a difference?
thank you for your time!
mary (a mom)
Posted by mary mother of prisoner of the drug war on Dec 16, 2004 at 7:10 AM to whom it may concern,
my brother, Jorge, has been in prison since he was 18 years old. He is now 34. There is a great chance that he will be comimg home soon. and he asked me if I could find some type of servies for him. in refrence to job place ment, and some sort of theropy or support group he can join when he goes into the half way house. If someone can help me to recieve this information, I would greatley appriciate it.sincerly
rosa
Posted by rosa on Dec 30, 2004 at 8:31 PM My fiance now 26 has been dealing with jails and the court system almost all of his life. Now that he wants to move on and get his life back together the court seems to want to hold him back. I myself am a tax payer and am willing to pay for those in prison who deserve to be in there. But I believe that many people are in jail for the wrong reasons. In a week he is to appear in court. The judge wants to violate him for driving with out a license and give him six months in prison.Yes i can see how he shouldn’t have been driving with out a license, but I do not believe it’s worth all the tax dollars to give him six months. I am looking for somebody or an organization to help me out.
elizabeth
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