Prison in the Cards

This article seems well intended, however; wouldn’t it be more beneficial to identify why young black men get themselves into this situation in the first place. Poverty, lack of education, lack of two parent households, etc. are all possible reasons, but I can find just as many kids that grew up under the same conditions that do not get into trouble. To talk about the inequality in sentencing only diverts the conversation. The fact that you are being sentenced, shows that we are already behind the 8 ball in discussing a solution.

Poverty, single parent household, lack of education, etc. have a role in crime, however there are significant numbers of poor uneducated whites in the drug culture yet the prison population doesn’t reflect this.  Whites refuse to face the reality of why so many Black males are incarcerated, which simply is modern day Jim Crow.  The “War on Drugs” is completely focused on people of color.  Inequality in sentences is not to divert the issue, it IS the issue.  Statistics show a larger portion of the white population use, abuse, sell, and participate in drug activity.  It is also shown that Blacks/Latinos are many times more likely to be stopped, searched, and arrested via profiling.  It’s also a given that sentencing on first and repeat offenders is stiffer for nonwhites.  So, while a disproportionate percentage of the Black race is in prison, if criminal justice were equal, just as large a percentage of the white population would be incarcerated.  Prison rehabilitation is a joke, and obtaining employment even worse being an ex-con, so a vicious cycle begins, which will only worsen crime rates for the future.  The prison industry is a growth industry, and who better to target than the underclass, particularly the least empowered?  SWAT teams don’t bust in doors in some parts of town where I live.  The “raids” are conducted in the poorest, usually Blackest, part of town.  Stats show Black incarceration for drug offenses is 20 times that for whites with equal or greater drug law violations.  I know it’s a tired refrain, but true, it’s racism.  One might even think a quiet, socially acceptable form of genocide.

Ever since white America began importing millions of African slaves to unjustly enrich herself she has intentionally mistreated those slaves and their descendants.  Today in 2004 Afro-Descendants do not enjoy equal job opportunities, equal housing opportunities, equal health opportunities or equal justice under the law.
The U.S. government which has always been owned and controlled by very wealthy Caucasians has been exploiting Afro-Descendants for such a long period of time that it takes for granted its power to do so.
However, the wheels of justice are finally catching up with white America.  By continuing to practice ethnocide and forced assimilation against Afro-Descendants, the USA is blatantly violating U.N. Covenants.  Sufficient evidence has been presented by African-American activists to merit the U.N. placing a Reparations Sanction upon the guilty U.S. government. 
Why can’t white America see the handwriting on the wall?  Because long-term arrogance has deluded her into thinking that she can get away with centuries of mass murder and exploitation.  When a wicked nation’s rulers repeatedly claim that the economy is strong and getting stronger, even though it has a $7 trillion dollar debt, even though 9 million citizens are unemployed,even though 42 million have no health insurance, and even though it is waging unjust catastrophic wars based on lies, then we are justified in concluding that those rulers are leading their own people straight into hell.
Considering the massive impact of the lingering effects of plantation slavery and current institutionalized racism which are converting many Black and Brown inner cities into killing fields, when self-deluded Caucasians blame most of the suffering of Afro-Descendants on the victims of white oppression they are confirming to civilized nations around the world that the USA is the worst human rights violator on the planet.
Sincerely,
Malik Al-Arkam
www.AllForReparations.org

Equality in the prison system does not fix the problem for young black men. Let us imagine that there was no disparity between whites and blacks in the prison system and by population, the numbers were proportionate. That does not lesson the number of blacks being incarcerated. My point is, we need to fix the problem that puts young black men in the position that they would even go to prison, rather than equalize it by putting more whites in to catch up.

Malik, get over it already!!! Black Americans are the richest group of “Africans” in the world. The slave trade was a horrible stain on our country’s history, but we need to move on in order for us to achieve.

John,
If whites were going to prison at the same rate (which they should be) the “problem” would be “fixed” b/c white society would sound an alarm.  In other words, the same problems destroying much of Black America are also killing a large segment of poor white and lower middle class America, addiction, single parenting, violent crime, domestic violence, lack of education, etc.  The “remedy” currently is incarceration for Blacks, while ignoring and/or coddling (in that the incarceration rates are discrepant) poor whites in the same distress.  The think tanks can study the situation all they want, the politicians can use it, the scholars can expound on abstract solutions, and the problem is ignored, until the next round of grants, funding, and elections for someone to blather about it again. 

Many of the whites I’m acquainted with are comforted with the stats on Black incarceration as it gives them superiority (it lifts their dysfunctional lives and status a notch in their own mind).  I believe, eventually (soon) where the country is heading will force this lower class segment of white society into the same cells.  By then it may be too late for the poor of America, regardless of color.  The social segment someone named the “useless feeders” will be viable only as free (prison) labor, cannon fodder, and shit work (and dumb enough to be grateful for it). 

Although I don’t agree at this time with reparations for a variety of reasons, I find it disparaging when I hear someone describe slavery as “a stain on our history.” A stain was on the blue dress.

“Get over it!”

Christ, where have I heard that lame expression about a thousand fucking times the past three years!

I would like to chime in and say something about the “get over it” comment. If we could all get over it, this would be a great country. The fact is that the white people that are running this country do just the opposite and keep the hate and oppression alive.

Think of it this way, the same people that were against civil rights in the first place are still alive and kicking and they still have their positions of power in congress and in the 100% white senate of the united states.

How is it possible for a person that believes that minorities should neither receive equal rights under the constitution nor deserve said rights in our free system simply supposed to ignore the racial issues when it comes to passing legislation. I do beleive that the problem would be dealt with a great deal better if there were more white americans in jail that there were black people in jail. Most people when they see the scarey black people in jail, the first thought that comes to their minds is “look at this guy, he must have done something wrong”. That rational is the catalyst to all of the little people that stand by and let these things happen, as if they are a non issue and should be “gotten over”.

Hey Democrats:  It’s Gut-Check Time…Again
This extraordinary political season highlights a number of important questions for Democrats in their battle to wrest away from Republicans copyrights to the political definition of the term “liberal.” Election 2004 presents yet another political gut-check for a Democratic party that in recent years have woefully avoided face-offs with Republicans like the kid who feigns a tummy ache to avoid going to school and facing the class bully.  Conservatives have managed to tighten their stranglehold on countless political labels and very successfully continue to negatively define liberalism.  All the while Americans in the middle are dazed and confused by one of the many conservative political contradictions, distorting the face of who we are (or should be) as Americans.  This history of America is steeped in the verbiage of “Lady Liberty,” “With Liberty And Justice For All” and “Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death?” Subsequently, it would appear our founding fathers were on to something pretty special with this liberal-thing.  But conservatives have perhaps forever morphed “liberal” into something akin to communism-- sinful, un-American and dangerous to our children.  Thus, from the top of the Democratic ticket on down, liberals must decide now--continue to fear right-wing zealots’ rapid fire attacks that seem to always strike home with many American voters or decide to meet these bullies head up, go on the offensive and expose this administration that can’t get through a week without doing something corrupt, questionable or just outright stupid.

Jeff - I did my gut-check 20 years ago and found “liberals” weren’t doing enough then, and even less now, but that’s to be expected as Dems are the other cheek on the PNACorporate ass.  Even with a Kerry win there will be no change to the handbasket we’re in.  We’re Pavlov-ed with slogans and jingo, Give ‘Em Just informercial politics.  I think the founding fathers would be surprised we’ve kept the republic as long as we have.

Elitarr, I absolutely agree with you about our founding fathers, however it is because of liberalism that our republic is in jeopardy. We cannot survive with the left taxing and spending and the right tax-cutting and spending. Both sides are vying for votes and have resorted to offering more than the other guy to get them. Until we realize that freedom is the cornerstone of our society and that equal opportunity does not guarantee equal achievement, we are lost.

John -
I don’t believe the problem lies with left and right vying for votes nor their methods of taxing/spending/cutting/spending.  I believe it’s the usual failure of capital and empire and as always they’ve convinced the peons it’s merely a difference between parties, or “isms,” or our crusade vs their crusade on the international front.  History repeating itself with bombs instead of catapult and tar or canon and sword.  Another money fight amongst the world’s ruling elite.  Wave a little plastic flag, buy yellow ribbons; at least in the current spat they aren’t blowing brains out in the plaza or hotel kitchens and balconies - yet.

I grew up in Arkansas and I am forty-five. I have seen a lot of changes in society and the world of the black Americans with my own eyes.  I believe that the serious discriminations of the black people in the past have created a far reaching effect that is not healing.  While blacks are not treated as badly as they were in the past, they still, as a race, have a legacy of poverty. These people have traditionally had no wealth to hand down, property, or businesses for the most part. They have a history of desperation and having to break the rules to survive. The black man and women have been in a no win situation that is only beginning to rectified. The attitude that black Americans have had to have, to deal with their oppression, has become part of their culture. Black men learn to take risks that society disapproves of because they alway have had to, to survive.  They feel differently about commiting crimes because black men have traditionally had to break the rules to have anything and give their families what they needed. Many black men today have parents that still went to segragated schools and remember black only resturants. Im only 45, and I remember them.  There is only room for a little here, but I known many blacks people and they don’t veiw the law as something that they can trust or count on to protect them.

I am impressed by the level of dialogue that I have read here.  Keep it up.  But let’s not forgot that the victims of crimes perpetrated by african-americans are overwhemingly african-american themselves.  Law enforcement can only do so much.  We need to invest in our communities and provide real, workable alternatives to a crime as a way of life.  I wish I knew the answer.

Incidentally, those concerned about sentencing guidelines would be well-advised to review the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision:  Blakely v. Washington, 542 U.S. ___, 124 S.Ct. 2531, 159 L.Ed.2d 403 (2004).  For all intents and purposes, the guidelines are a thing of the past.

Will those laying the incarceration problem at the foot of the sentencing guideline scheme be vidicated?  I doubt it.

Leslie -
Even during the worst of Jim Crow and oppresion in the last century many Blacks went on to become successful doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, land owners, writers, poets, musicians, teachers, and all within the existing laws.  Some might say the degradation of Blacks began after integration with whites. 

Of course there’s racism, I could recite of laundry list of incidents from my own life, but that would in no way excuse theft, robbery, drugs, or any other illegal behavior of choice.  Oppression, poverty, lack of opportunity contribute to crime but do not excuse it.  I’ve a few years on you and also have seen change.  I’ve seen too many Blacks develop a chip on their shoulder and “the world owes me” attitude.  I’ve also seen that posture increase in white society.  I understand the despair, and it grieves me, but I can’t excuse a criminal response to it.  I don’t trust the police, not b/c I’m Black (although in certain situations that’s a factor) but b/c the best definition of a cop is a “repressed sadist.” (And I have family who are cops.)

Black men aren’t taking “risks to survive” when they deal drugs, rob the liquor store, or pimp out.  They’re looking for easy money, quick money, just as their white counterparts who do the same thing.  The lack of opportunity to work at decent jobs with decent pay and benefits, the infusion of drugs despite billions spent on the “War on Drugs, a government education of dumbing and numbing, and other social factors are destroying a large part of Black and white America.  What is needed to deal with oppression is strength of character and courage to confront it.  That’s what much of Black and white America has lost. 

acbloom -
not sure what you mean by “laying the incarceration problem at the foot...”.  Does this mean more Bubba and Earl’s in the cell with Tyrone?  Or that justice will be meted out evenly regardless of race, class, creed, etc.?

John by the way, listen to Leslie when you say “Get over it”. I am only 29 and guess what? My maternal great grandfather was bi-racial (yes, due to rape) and my maternal great great grandmother was a slave in S.Carolina - this is is documented family history. So guess what, they had no wealth of any sort to pass to the next generation. Compound interest? Forget it. And don’t even start on the Native Americans. Yup I’ve got a great, great paternal grandmother who’s of the Blackfoot Nation - man am I rackin’ up the points. Or get over it?

Of course, people aren’t allowed to lynch African-Americans in the street (but there was that draggin’ through Texas....), so that’s good. (I’m not being snide here), but what else should we get over?

The US government made me and mine 3/5ths of a person, subsidized loans and grants for returning GIs that my family couldn’t get take advantage of, despite the fact that they served their country well (WWII, Vietnam, Korea - 4 uncles, 1 purple heart), yada, yada, yada. So no Norman Rockwell for us, no first home in the burbs with a VA or college loan that is most Americans form of wealth which can be passed down. Nope, guess I have get over that too.

Present day? I went to private school, private little Ivy college and that’s alot of blood and tears from previous generations of my people that I’m even there. Yup, my Grandma did the domestic thing with all of its perils and lack of social security credits. But when your European American peers in college display the attitudes, ignorance and sometimes outright public contempt that will translate into votes, public policy and the fact I’m going to have to shell out for private school for my daughter due to dis-investment in inner city schools where I live in a “hot” neighborhood that only recieved attention when the European Americans rediscovered our melting pot boho turn of the century buildings and priced out everyone else, but African -American people that live on the fringes be damned, I’m still getting over a lot of things. Particulary since these unfortunate African -American kids around the corner could have been my daughter’s wonderful upstanding husband, my son-in-law and a productive member of society instead of marginalized. Too bad honey, no nice, chocolate brown, Barry White voiced husband for you!

Especially since these same European people have been passed wealth through my people’s slavery, through my people’s economic and political disenfranchisement down through the present day. So I can’t find a professional mentor powerful enough to hold my hand the way that Becky Worthington Mayflower gets her hand held which translates into thousands of dollars in pay, promotions and benefits over our lives and because I’m African American I’m typically at most starting 400 years, at least 139 years behind her starting line; this is regardless of if she came on the Mayflower or her people came here to the US last week. She’s still perpetuating my pain and her privilege.

And NOW OF ALL THE NERVE, this same Becky wants to claim my people’s victimhood, as if victimization pays out so well. But hey, at least we’re richer than Africans from Africa, all they have is flies, HIV and death, we should be grateful to be here. Yes, that’s how shitty that statement sounded. “well....you guys are the richest people of African descent.....” give me a damn break. If the African nations hadn’t been bankrupted and stripped by European imperialism, they could have enjoyed their own resources as well instead of the shambles, bloated children and lots of flies. But we should get over that too? Yup I feel better already....

Economically speaking, we’ve been robbed of the capital we put into our birth country and now, for capital purposes, since so many of us are surplus labor, and dammit in the 60’s we had the nerve to ask for equality and a little backpay, America decides to lock us up far out of proportion so everyone can feel safe at night instead of doing something constructive. I should get over that too?

Constructive you say? Let’s see what jobs are there shall we?  Our infrastructure and public laugh-portation, I mean, transportation could use some work; people could be trained as teachers and aides so that inner city classrooms aren’t 60 to 1, yeah that’s swell for learning; we could train some as physician’s assistants and aides so that rural, salt of the earth John Boy types wouldn’t have to drive 200 miles for primary care; wow these new dealish ideas could help everyone, lift everyone’s boat so to speak.

I’m certainly not advocating crime - however is a poor African man who steals worse than a privileged European who doesn’t need the money and takes your mother’s pension on the way out of the door with a 100 million dollar severance package? Both wrong, but one is really wrong. Should we start profiling European, educated males in business as definitely headed for white collar crimes of gigantic proportions and lock ‘em up, at say, age 12?

I would also like to point out that DEMOCRACY or FREEDOM (as it has been dumbed down) is a political ideology. CAPITAL/ CAPITALISM/ FREE MARKET is an economic system. Somehow, your friendly neighborhood politicos have made them one and the same. My point? Our goverment has subsidized the movement of private capital, private education, private anything and taken the public trust into private hands to an egregious outocme. And what does that mean? Private entities with tacit agreement (if not legislation) from governemnt has dictated the terms of our lives and pitted us all by race, when we should be organized by our humanity. Get over it huh?

Or how would you like to be the national (and of course with now international media) whipping boys and girls for everything gone wrong in the country? A colleague of mine from China was WAY OFF BASE about African-Americans until she actually met some - she thought we were all rappers and hoochies with criminal proclivities. No money? The blacks and their damn entitlements did it. Kid can’t get into Radcliffe? Some obviously underqualified black chick got in, on full scholarship too! Hard day at work? Damn those sassy black people and their ambitions at work, same as ours. As if!

However, as it was said earlier, this lack of oppportunity is now starting to effect the good European Americans as well.  Now everyone is faced with the slippery slope of declining standards of living, lack of civil responsiblity and common decency. Yeah, that’s right, unless you own your own business free and clear, you’re WORKING CLASS TOO Dr. Silicone Valley who’s job got outsourced to Dr. New Delhi.

This is a bit of a rant and not nearly as polished (and spell-checked) as I would like, but it encapsulates some of the utter incredulity that I and many of my peers feel when people tell us to get over it. Obviously we haven’t. YOU want us to get over it - but didn’t Jewish people popularize the phase”...never forget....” ? I dare anyone to tell them get over it.....

Dear Ingrid,

I could not have said it any better and I don’t know of many others who have said it better then you, in reply to the “get over it” statement. I once attended a meeting with Condoleeza Rice where she said that whenever she sat down with two parties in a post conflict situation, she would tell both sides to “get over the past, including the death and destruction caused by the other if you want to have a future.” I stood up an asked her if she ever would say that to a Jewish person? Needless to say, she did not respond to my question!

All,

It seems that a little phrase, “Get over it”, touched a nerve. Well, that is what we need in this country. We need nerves touched. You cannot grow without heartache and if pissing people off moves the dialogue forward, then I have done my job. The last thing that I would like to say about this subject is.... How has blaming the white man helped the black community? If it were that easy, we would have had resolution a long time ago. My point is we need to look inward to solve these problems. We cannot be free if we continually ignore some real issues within our own community and consistently blame whitey for our problems. Thanks for listening!

If you want to know what Blacks do, just look at a country that is run by Blacks.  Blacks had 600,000 years of evolutionary history in Africa, one of the richest countries in natural resources in the world, to develop and progress and they never even invented a written language. 
I have come to the conclusion that what will solve the “Race” problem, is for each race to have its own living space.  Then each race will have to face its own problems and not blame them on some other race.  I wish this could happen, but it is not going to, and the world will end in a race struggle that will destroy all.  When the “dark races” over-populate the world and the prison systems cant hold anymore, all civility will vanish and the world will collaspe under its own ignorance and barberism.  We will retun to the dark ages.
In the future, there will be no more space probes, medical discoveries, airplanes or the like....only a society where hip hop cultures reign supreme.  Is that a great future or what?

We shouldn’t continue punishing people for time served. Those with records of any sort should have the opportunity for those records to be wiped clean as it pertains to employers. Like a credit report, crime records should be sealed and not be made available to potential employers after the probationary period ends – or a minimum of a year or two, whichever is shorter. These individuals should also be allowed to participate in federally funded education programs that would allow them to finance and afford for themselves a college education.

Lighten sentences for first time offenders allowing for alternatives to jail time.
Pump more money into urban schools that will allot for smaller classes and aim for a more diverse student population.
Create programs that will allow students in these schools to explore and develop their career goals – ie if they are interested in Journalism send them to a TV station for a day, or a couple of hours per week.
Offer more career counseling and encourage students to diversify their skills in order to remain competitive, and teach them that they can win and create a better life for themselves but at the same time remain realistic.
The community also needs to address the issue of teen pregnancy, because a lot of young African American females have babies because they see no future and feel that at least they can get and give love to a child. This idea sounds noble, but it only continues the cycle of poverty.
It may be time for tough love in order to teach and encourage both young people and adults to try with everything they’ve got to avoid becoming a statistic, and to support community resources that aid in the cause.

No. Saying “blame whitey” for everything, that’s an oversimplification and an emotional response to a complex question of economic and legal culpability. I don’t blame Becky or Bob Worthington Mayflower PERSONALLY for problems of African-Americans, BUT, they are not totally absolved because the system is ongoing and they’re a benefitin’ and a participatin’ in it.

That’s why when you sign a contact for services, most times there is a clause that attachs responsibility for the debt to your estate and YOUR HEIRS AFTER YOUR DEATH. They want their money for services rendered dammit. 

Yet European Americans refuse in varying degrees and methods to engage the issue in the dignified ECONOMIC AND LEGAL response that it deserves. When my African ancestors came here, they were damn sure recorded in legal and economic terms. For auction by Mr. Smith, one black buck, strong, good for field work, $25. (Or in a woman’s case good for work and breeding, wink, wink).

European Americans (and just about everyone) universally recognizes the power of the pocketbook. We’re just not used to the idea after being kidnapped, workin’ for free, getting ripped off (or beaten or murdered or raped or at least robbed) or playing the “game” for years only to have a new Becky or Bob surpass you when they have no seniority, and now you’ve caught a case of “Jamal...you seem to have an ....attitude.....”, so on and so forth. 

In the interest of making America comfortable with what’s at stake here, let’s play the game that they’re used to - The Game of Economics.

Give African Americans the value of their labor plus interest accured.

We’ll definitely shut up then - it will make the playing field real level. Funny thing is, you’ll then find a WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE claiming to be of African-American slave descent where before anything was better than..."black". Then let’s see what these displaced young African American men have to offer to the world. And if they screw up, there is no room for excuse.

Funny thing is when reparations are introduced people say:
1. That won’t solve anything.(America is one of the most litigitous places in the world and I KNOW it’s not just African-Americans with Pre-Paid Legal on auto dial.)
2. It would bankrupt the country. (That didn’t stop America from jackin’ up other countries along with the World Bank and IMF).
3. I’m not paying for what a bunch of dead white people did. (You’re still benfitin’)
4. You people have a chip on your shoulders. (Yup...)
4. Blacks wouldn’t know what to do with all of that money. They’d drink it up, shop it up and act like animals. (My favorite assumption. As if European American lottery winners from the stix do any better.)
5. That would involve proving their heritage - too complex. (We can agree on that - look at the warm welcome the “un-official” family of Thomas Jefferson received from the “official” family. Or aw shucks, look at how good ole’ Strom Thurmond did his “other family”. Wasn’t Strom a grown man in his 20s and Washington a teen age girl? Hmmmm....so that’s why my great grand dad looks like that....)

I could go on and on, but I won’t.

There is legal basis - Japanese internment victims were compensated and got an apology (as it should be)and this recompense was just for WWII.

It took 400 years to screw us up and now we’re supposed to rebound in 39 years?

And by the way, we’re not holding our breath, waiting for, “whitey” as it was put, to make it right - thus the ceaseless striving for better.

Have you given your time to these lost urban African-American children that wind up in jail? Have you smiled at them and not reacted like they were going to steal the fillings out of your mouth? Or did you Cosby them because their pants are too big? (Zoot suits were seem as thuggish and anti-establishment back in the day. We laugh now.) When have you visited and spent money at an African American business or did you wonder if they were qualified enough off the bat?

Have you given appreciation to all of the decent, progressive European Americans fighting the good fight with us on the basis of their sense of justice - truly there some. Did you check your European girlfriend or guyfriend when they said some societally internalized bullshit about African-Americans? Trying saying anything less than complimentary about Jewish people and get used to a mote in your eye and the label anti-Semitic.

You need to keep an eye on your financial advisor, real estate agent and your government representatives who sit on treasury and commerce, transportation and energy boards - that’s who the hell we as African Americans should worry about as well as “whitey”. Oh yeah, George W. and his ilk too.

I find the talk of reparations sad. When I think of the growing numbers of Black on Black crime, doesn’t this mean in theory that generations of African Americans will then owe reparations to each other? I’m sure anyone who has lost someone they cared about to drug or gang violence would agree. If you don’t think these acts to be just as deplorable as slavery, explain that to a mother who just lost her 6 year old. Reparations do not have to equal a handout, we can honor our ancestors by becoming better as a people, by taking the lead and deciding that our destiny is not spelled out for us by passable obstacles. We can make our own reparations.

We can do this, and if we can’t we shouldn’t expect someone else to do it for us.

Word

By the way JC, Europe was in the dark ages until it decided to “borrow” many ideas from Asia, Africa and the Middle East. (Math, frequent bathing, medicine, the number zero, pepper, astronomy, fireworks, paper, etc.) Then Europe straight plundered and raped its way around the globe for riches until present...wait there is that Iraqi oil thing…

I’m not exact about the title, read a book called The Colonizer’s View of the World - be prepared, this academic book doesn’t have pictures. You need to be informed about your own history before you can speak on anyone elses.

It could be said that Europe didn’t do it better, they just did it more viciously. I’d be evil if I was shut up in a leaky castle with lice, eating sheep, blooded by leeches, no deoderant and the sound of monks preaching all day and repressed sexuality too. In their defense, I too would need to get away and go pillage. Anything would be better than that.

And who are you calling the dark races exactly? I could be related to you (hope not), seriously, and my mother and many maternal relatives are probably “whiter” than you think - they could work at your job (if you have one) and you wouldn’t know they’re African-American by appearence, especially since they don’t roll with Snoop Dog, don’t drink 40s and have no gold teeth. But funny thing is, people like you are such hypocrites - I caught you checking me out of the corner of your eye hoping my husband wouldn’t notice. Yeah, Strom said wasn’t me for years....

Your comments are indicative of societally internalized bullshit. Hip hop doesn’t define AFRICAN AMERICAN CULTURE. It is ONE musical and poetic expression of the marginalized urban people in our group and particulary of the prison culture that was expressed in the above article. Let’s see any Louis Armstrong or Eubie Blake or Marian Anderson, Fefe Dobson, Hootie and the Blowfish, Bobby McFerrin or Beyonce anyone?

But guess what? Hip hop didn’t explode on the scene until some European Americans thought a dollar could be made from it.

Does Marilyn Manson define what the world would be like if European culture took over unmitigated? Wierdo quasi religious sacrifices? Trailer parks? Homoerotic bustiers for men? Glass eyes and and the eroticism of inflicted pain? Drug abuse ala We’re All Stars in the Dope Show? Real nice....

But now, the grown folks are not going to entertain anymore inflammatory crap - its getting off the subject at hand. Go play while I go vote people with your attitude out of office.

I doubt anyone will read this, but eighty percent of the planet is darker than a shopping bag and poor (or LOWER middle class, at BEST). Meanwhile, twenty percent of the planet is lighter than a shopping bag and middle class or rich. This ain’t an accident! This is the end result of generations of sabotage/conspiracy (the war on drugs, for instance) designed to ensure that blondes and redheads never get “bred out”. Even though Tiger Woods and Halle Berry are doing just fine, that’s not good enough for the powerful who still pull the strings. Get over THAT!

I see that we have gone well beyond sentencing guidelines and it appears that we have gone well beyond the scope of the article.  I am still impressed by the dialogue and I learn something every time there is a new post.  My contribution, while it bit drier, does focus on sentencing guidelines.  As I stated earlier, the recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Blakely v. Washington has all but rendered the sentencing guidelines obsolete.  This is of particular interest when discussing the African-American incarceration problem, because it is the sentencing guidelines that since their inception have been largely responsible for the draconian drug sentences handed down by federal and select state courts.

As a concrete example of this, and the racially disparate sentencing that has resulted from the guidelines, many have pointed to the difference in sentencing between crack-cocaine and powder cocaine.  Blakely has now rendered the guidelines unconstitutional (as many knew all along).  Therefore, we can no longer lay the problems in disparate sentencing “at the feet of the guidelines”.

The question remains, absent the guidelines and their admittedly unfair (and in many practical respects racist) sentencing rubric will our prison population become more diverse??  Was the African-American incarceration problem a result of the guidelines??  As the courts begin to re-sentence hundreds of thousands of inmates in light of Blakely, I guess we will find out for sure. 

My last question:  There is no doubt but that harsh sentences, mandatory minimums and the guidelines themselves contributed to a reduction in violent crime during the 1990s.  This is bolstered by the fact that said harsh sentences are beginning to expire and violent crime has increased as the gangsters of the early 1990s are being released from prison.  We know that said crime is most harmful to inner city communities.  What will the new sentencing scheme mean for those communities? 

As I stated before, African-Americans are not only disproportionally incarcerated, they are also disproportionally victimized by violent crime.  We must not forget therefore, that any change in the law enforcement scheme cuts both ways…

By way, really nice things came out of Europe too. IKEA, the Statue of David by MichaelAngelo, Pierce Brosnan, croissants, Sting, mozzerella with pesto....mmmmm

But seriously, the prison gulag here as Rayne said is really denying these young men the opportunity to reform their lives through education or businesses.

That said, don’t let all of these African American men totally off the hook either. Some are in trouble becuase they prey on society and those are the ones who incorrigible. Those are the ones that shame their mothers and fathers and know better. Do the crime, do the time, but society needs to make sure they are doing the same time that everyone else is, that they are getting the death penalty at the same rate as everyone else. And if I where to ever catch my daughter in something illegal? Just like Grandma told me, “I’ll walk you to the police station myself....”

One of the biggest problems is that their crimes are held to longer sentences and they have less chances for reentry into society for nonviolent crimes then people of other races. Who wants to hire a African American or Latino American ex con, no matter what they did? Martha and Ken Lay are getting speaking engagements when they get out.

Example, I had to testify against someone who stole my license plates this year. In the courtroom, while I waited for my trial, one guy was there because he missed meetings with his parole officer. He had excuses, but his crimes were drug abuse, minor distribution, nothing else. The judge sent him packing to jail for 2 years.

Now the next guy was on parole and had an extensive record of DUIs (and accidents) since the 1980s and was in court again for another DUI on a revoked license. She immediately asked him if he had a job - he said his brother was going to hire him at a pizza shop.(As a driver?) SHE LET HIM GO WITH TIME SERVED AND PROBATION instead of 2 years and alcohol rehab!

I couldn’t believe it. Of course we know the ethnicities of all involved by my all caps statement above. The second guy (European American) was CLEARLY a present danger to society, his kids, himself. The first guy (African American) was mainly dangerous to himself.  It was so obvious, I looked at the judge with disbelief and she knew exactly what I was getting at. Respectfully of course, without eyeballing her - I didn’t want to go to jail!

But this goes on all of the time and it’s extremely destructive to African American society. And why aren’t George W’s girls and niece in juvenile? Why isn’t George W in jail?

Posted by elitarr on August 18, 2004 at 3:13 PM

not sure what you mean by “laying the incarceration problem at the foot...”.  Does this mean more Bubba and Earl’s in the cell with Tyrone?  Or that justice will be meted out evenly regardless of race, class, creed, etc.?

My Answer: The sentencing guidelines were initially designed to accomplish just what you state, i.e. sentence everone equally and reduce judicial discretion.  The intent, therefore, was in fact to incarcerate Bubba, Earl, Juan and Tyrone for the same amount of time for the same exact crime.  However, because the guidelines required especially harsh sentencing for crack-cocaine related crimes as opposed to powder cocaine crimes, it soon became clear that the guidelines were NOT fair, and that Tyrone was drawing 10-20 year sentences for dealing crack-cocaine, while Bradly and Kip were drawing 6-10 year sentences for the same amount of powder cocaine.  Therfore, perhaps rightfully so, many blamed the African-American incarceration problem on the guidelines.  I happen to believe that the problem is deep than just a sentencing scheme, therefore, my point was simply this: now that the guidelines are gone, will those of us in the law enforcement community, together with community leaders be able to focus on finding the real cause of the problem???

One last point:  When looking at how sentences are handed out, it is not enough to look at the race of the perpetrator and assume that because he is african-american that he received a harsher sentence.  Rather, a much better insight is acheived if you look at the races of both the accused AND the victim.

Ingrid points to the sentences handed down against an African-American for minor drug distribution and compares it to a sentences (or lack thereof) handed down to a White man for multiple DUI’s etc.  While on the surface, such sentencing appears unfair, and circumstantially racist, it is worthy at least of consideration, that the victim in the case of the African-American was/is his community, presumably made up of African-Americans as well, while the white man has put his (presumably white) community at risk by driving under the influence.  Irene further points to Ken Lay, Martha Stewart, et. al.  To be sure, their sentences are light given the egregious nature of their crimes (especially Lay).  However, again, their victims are primarily whites.

Under my scheme therefore, a tough sentence on an African-American is not inherently racist, quite the contrary, it is due justice for the African-American Community.

That being said, racism does indeed rear its ugly head where the death penalty is concerned.  African-Americans who’s victims are white are almost guaranteed to get the death penalty (in the states that allow it).  Whites who’s victims are white are almost sure to get the death penalty.  However, when the VICTIM is African-American, there is far less liklehood that the death penalty will be applied.  We can each draw our own conclusions about what this means.  However, it seems to me that as a society, we place a higher value on white lives than on african-american lives, as evidenced by our application of the death penalty.  I am not sure what this means in the greater scheme of things.  Food for thought, I guess.

acbloom -
I too believe the problem is deeper than sentencing guidelines (but short of time today).  Factor in that Bradley and Kip likely have parents, spouses, or cohorts who can dip into deeper pockets for defense lawyers, or cutting deals with judges who view Brad and Kip more apt to “repent” than Juan and Tyrone and hence are treated with more leniency.  Factor in overloaded DA’s reducing sentences, choosing to make deals (to avoid trial) with Brad and Kip Factor over Juan and Tyrone.  Factor in that once released, Mr. Whitemanager is going to hire Brad and Kip over Juan and Tyrone, perhaps reducing white recidivism.  While I hope I’m wrong, I fully expect that hidden institutional racism will find another way to accomplish much the same result, but give think tanks, talking heads, whitewing pols, etc. the ammo to say “We told you it wouldn’t make any difference, nanner nanner.”

Elitarr:  I wish you were wrong.....unfortunately, you make a compelling point.  Wish I knew the answer.

http://www.blackpanther.org/newsalert.htm

Malik, If you didnt have an Arab sounding name, I would swear by reading your article on reparations that you were Jewish.  What with all your whining and bitching about slavery and what the white man owes you.  I assure you that I will never pay you reparations, as I dont owe you anything but a one way ticket back to Zimbaqwe or Ethiopia or where ever it is that you came from.
Good Luck in your endeavors.

No part of the problem, JC, is that their are people in positions of power that have the same feelings as you, but they will act like everything is hunky dorie.  That is why we cannot get over it and things will not change.

For all you Afro-centric people out there...Please tell me what it is that you people want. I have wondered about this for a long time.  I mean you have BET, NAACP, Black Congressional Caucaus, Black Beach Week, Black Miss America, Black this and Black that.  If Whites were to ask for this much attention, you people would scream racism from the roof tops.  What gives?  Are you going to complain forever or just until you are the majority.  I can bet when the blacks are in the majority, the whites will pay a dear price.  Whites today who are screaming for “equal rights” and reparations for blacks, will tomorrow be screaming for their lives.  Am I right?  You know I am right.  Payback is going to be hell isnt it.  I wont be around when this occurs, but wish I could be.  It would be fun watching 400 years of revenge come to pass on the stupid whites who want so dearly to be politically correct that they will choose to give away their very lives to help a group of people who cant and wont even help themselves.

You want to know what Amerika will look like in 50 years....look at Zimbaqwe, the Congo, Ethiopia or even South Africa.

Everything you mentioned that black people have, white people have it too, they just do not call it white history month or white beach week.

Yeah, yeah, what else is new? Blaa, blaa, blaa. Poor black man! Doesen’t have enough sense to do for self. Keeps begging his enemy for justice. Damn! Can we get any stupider than this?

jc -
To see what your Amerika will look like in 50 years, you need look no further (nor that long) than American Indian reservations, Appalachia, the Mississippi Delta, parts of the Great Plains, rural American countryside is full of white folks in tar paper shacks.  Plundering a nation’s wealth, exported under the guise of “bringing freedom”, is coming home with a vengeance, right under your nose, a white 3rd world.  And under all white politicians (particularly republican CICs in office 24 years of the last 36).

Such hatred.....beware of anyone that spells America with a “K”.  Anyone for discussing the problem of African-American incarceration?

I am one of jc’s traitorous “whites who advocate equal rights (and not just for Af/Am’s, either), reparations, etc.” Perhaps jc should take some time to hammer out for his/her self exactly what it SHOULD take for a person to qualify for first, second, and third class citizenship. Ideally, if you made the rules. Then, with an open mind- Are these requirements reasonable? Fair? Just? If so, where do you fit in? In your imaginary society, do class distintion fall along color lines? Ethnic/cultural ones? If so, is that a coincidince, or did you design your standards with that in mind? Just an excercise to help you organize and understand your own priorities. If you’re honest with yourself, you might learn something. Try it. You don’t have to tell anybody, and all you have to lose are groundless convictions.

KT,
First of all, I bet you are a female and a Christian of sorts.  This is usually the type of individual that condones the giving away of the fruit of the industrious many to satisfy the desires of the whining few (ie reparationists).  I have met people like you and they simply amaze me with their stupidy and total lack of understanding about what actually happens when different races mix. If you live long enough to make you a minority in Amerika, you and/or your children will pay the price for your actions; at the hands of the very people you profess to help.  It has happened many times in history and will happen again in the future.  Remember blood is always thicker than water. Even God knew that diversity didnt work..look at what he did to the people who were building the Tower of Babel.
Ethnic pride seems to exist in all races except the Caucasian race.  I dont understand this, unless they are on a guilt trip from all the media bombardment that has trashed Caucasians and their ideals for the past 50 years.
For your information, the “white” race is finished.  We will be in a minority status by 2050 and I feel sure we will pay dearly for our shortcomings.  As I stated above, I will not be here, but our children will have to deal with and suffer the consequences of our actions. 
However, after careful thought about the fellings of what seems to be the majority of “whites” in America, maybe they should be a minority and eventually be replaced, as most of them are not worth the trouble anyway. I dont think most “white” Americans want to survive.  They have been blasted with guilt for decades and do not have any ethic pride left.

By the way KT, I have never advocated taking rights away from anyone.  I just think that races should be separarted, for their own good.  Some races just cant compete with others and this is what is causing all the trouble today. Sadly, no one will admit it.

Nuff said

I want to first say I took the time to read everyone’s comments and enjoyed eached one. 
*stands on soapbox*
From the beginning of time the “White Man” has had an amazing complex.  This complex was created when they saw the great wonders everyone but them were creating.  They were ashamed, a bunch of losers. 
But they had a brilliant idea, “perhaps we can learn from them” and so they did.  And learning from the non-whites turned into stealing and destroying the evidence (which is now a common practice).  For example, when the famous and adored Aristotle was exiled from Italy for being an obnoxious nuisance, he went to Egypt where he was taught the knowledge of the Egyptians.  And when he returned to Italy he shared this knowledge as his own and completely forgot and denied the Egyptians the rewards and benefits of their great findings.  Alexander the Great, the man worshipped for his great skill as a fighter and adored for his thirst for knowledge torched an Egyptian library after he learned everything he wanted to learn.  And so the great pattern of seek and destroy begins. 
This pattern will never stop and they don’t want it to.  And why would they?  This method has brought them from crawling around in caves to ruling nations (even though Whites only make up 7% of the world’s population, no, I’m not joking.  THEY are the minority).  If the method works, why try to improve on it? 
If it was so easy for them to steal from Egyptians, destroy a library filled with priceless knowledge why wouldn’t it be easy to steal the futures of non-whites and destroy their lives?  We see how easy it is for one family to steal the election and destroy the country, why wouldn’t it be easier for it to happen collectively?? 
So now that we see what they’re capable of doing, why not take that knowledge and use it?  Yes, of course we are under a serious disadvantage to whites.  By golly, we’re worse off than EVERYONE else in the country.  There are more whites on welfare in this country than blacks but they will never let you see that.  They have invested time, millions upon millions of dollars and energy trying to keep non-whites down but it’s amazing how everyone found a way to succeed but us.  Now I’m not saying EVERY black person hasn’t succeeded but the numbers are embarrassing compared to say… the Chinese?  Hey, at least the other races stick together.
I find it disturbing to see blacks succeed in life and completely turn their backs on the communities and people that helped them get there.  Yes, we are a disadvantage, whites have taken their money out of inner city public schools and black communities and put it elsewhere.  I find it humorous how they continue to take money out of our communities (i.e. shopping centers, grocery stores, clothing stores) even though we’ve proven that no matter what, we’d buy from them even if they declare they don’t want your support.  Tommy Hilfiger.  Thank you.  But instead of complaining about how bad the neighborhood’s gotten as you lock your glove-compartment and activate the alarm on your brand new Jag how about giving back to the community?  Instead of complaining about the boys playing in the middle of the street or standing on the corner or not going to school how about taking the time out of your ever-so-busy schedule to give back to the community?  Volunteer?  And even if you don’t want to take the precious time out to volunteer how about donating a couple hundred dollars to a school (notice I didn’t say schools), after school programs, youth programs, outreach programs at churchs, where you know your money will be going towards a good thing… not putting 20-inch rims on your car. 
Even though white people have built this country on the backs of others and have worked to keep others down, they have never failed to give back to their communities, take someone along when they succeed or help their own succeed.  It’s amazing to see how many black people hit it big and are quick to run away from the people and community that helped them.  Why is that?  Why do we have the “I hit it big--good luck to you” mentality?  No one can say the say “the system made me think that.” This isn’t a communist country (insert smart comment here).  We are too quick to leave people behind.  And anyone who thinks that whites are just going to suddenly (or eventually) say, “Oh, geez, we’ve wronged you people for so long--here, let me help you succeed” are foolish for thinking so.  They aren’t going to help us not unless there was fame and/or fortune involved.  And the strange thing about that is...... we won’t help each other unless there’s fame and/or fortune involved… wow, doesn’t this look a little familiar?  Are we completely incapable of helping each other simply because we want to see our people succeed?  Even if there isn’t a profit in it for us? 
If you think volunteering won’t help someone, why not try to teach someone the value and rewards of hard work?  How long does that take if you want to be mediocre about it?  What?  Two minutes?  All you have to say is, “Yep, because I worked hard and stayed committed I got enough money to buy a big house and this Jag.” Okay, so that’s about five seconds.  But you catch my drift. 
Marc, you brought up a good point about how no one would have the gull to say “Get over it” to the Jews.  But you know why?  THE JEWS NEVER USED THE HOLOCAUST AS AN EXCUSE TO FAIL.  I’d bet anyone and everyone that they’ve never heard a poor Jew say “I failed because of what the Germans did to my people” because they know there is no excuse for failure. 
As soon as you begin to make lame excuses for failure you clear your own path for the inability to succeed. 
Black people use the “The White Man did this to me” excuse to the point where we’re beating a very, very dead horse.  NO ONE CARES and it isn’t an excuse to give up and settle for mediocrity.  No one wants to hear about what the White Man did.  Blaming the “White Man” is nothing short of a hindrance to success for blacks more than anything.  Yes, the “White Man” did us wrong, yes we are at a disadvantage to whites but there have been plenty of blacks who’ve succeeded regardless (and I’m not talking about in the entertainment industry either). 
Yes, the system has been created to keep the black man down but that gives us no reason to not try anyway.  There have been plenty of blacks who have been in prison and made something of themselves regardless (Judge Mathis). 
Yes, the White Man wants to keep us under thumb (or the Invisible Hand) but knowing this we should want to work harder to prove to ourselves that we can get out from under that.  Anyone who knows this and doesn’t take advantage of this knowledge is foolish.  Nothing is ever going to be given to us no matter who we are and we’re going to have to work for it harder than others.  There are no shortcuts and if you think you’re going to rise to the top that way, your “success” will be very short and the fall will be a very long and hard one.  The system is created so that if we get even one strike against us it’ll be hard to bounce back so knowing that why not try a ligitimate way to succeed? 
Yes, jobs are hard to find but I’m sure that if you try to get a job at a black owned-and-operated company your effort will be admired and they’ll probably try to make accomodations for you and if not, try somewhere else. 
Educate yourself and use your knowledge to your advantage.  Find something you have a passion for and stay committed to it.  Don’t try to find a cheap way to succeed, it won’t last long.  And don’t forget to help someone find their way when you make it. 
*steps off of soapbox*
Thank you.

I’ve read lots of posts on structural inequality and the U.S.’s prison regime. What I haven’t read is the influence of prison-guard unions on prison building. In California, when the Three Strikes initiative was on the table, prison guards were in the forefront of the movement. They had a vested interest in seeing more punitive sentences because that would result in a prison boom. It’s a sad story. 

As for the structural inequality arguments, I agree with them. But they’re way too simplistic. I live in Texas, and if you know anything about prisons in this state, you know that small towns devastated by military base closings or what have you, are eager for prisons. They bring jobs. It’s that simple.

Also, as for personal responsibility, I agree that it’s been co-opted by the right and is an excuse to ignore tougher problems. But there’s something to be said for it. The problems with saying that we have structural problems is that we may end up sliding down that victimization slope.

Jessica -
I agree somewhat with points in your post, the seek and destroy for example.  Will point out that many Blacks do give back to the community, even Cosby has been more than generous with funds.  However, disagree that the Jews have not used the Holocaust.  It’s the longest never ending guilt trip in history, to the tune of 1.7 trillion since 1973 to Israel.  And that’s just the open up front costs.  I’ve my opinion as to why it’s not seen as welfare, and we do have those noble slogans for befriending the “only democracy” in the ME.  Also, Judge Mathis was not in prison.  He was a troubled juvenile HS dropout, ordered to get his GED to avoid jail time, which he did, and the rest is history.  Some days I believe the white man doesn’t want to “keep us under his thumb” per se, but simply centuries of ignorance, habit, and needing an underclass the keep the poor white loser class feeling they’re better than something or somebody. 

TJR -
Excellent point regarding prison expansion.  Decades ago when talk of where to build prisons, in my small town area the attitude was “not in my backyard.” Four years ago a new state prison was proposed and every podunk town around begged and bid for it.  Jobs.  The prison is not filled to capacity but they’re working on that too.

This post is my answer to the many emails I have received. 

Wow, no offense people, but these posts on here only confirm that racial tension is alive and well.  There is a lot of hate, distrust, and serious lack of agreement on anything.  I still stand by what I said earlier.  It is obvious to me that African American men have systematically been stripped of opportunities that white men take for granted and don’t even think about or consider because they just seems to be “givens”.

As a woman and the sole provider of my children, I can relate first hand to what it is like to deal with competition of the white male and the system.  Certainly this particular parallel is different because I’m white, yet I believe very similar in final analysis on this point.  The average woman with a college degree makes less than the average man that is a high school drop out.  So, regardless of how strange it may sound, there are some correlations to me.  Many white men, and many white woman who don’t have the burden of being the only bread winner of a family, don’t have any reason to ever even ponder or acknowledge that opportunities for everyone are not created equal and how that affects a person’s entire existence.  Not only does this problem affect the financial bottom line in a household, it affects everything, education, opportunity, and every other variable that income affects. 

Additionally, many black men grow up without fathers. I believe this is not due to a character flaw in blacks, but the human condition of walking away from that which you feel you are not going to be able to do well or effectively.  If you are a person who will probably never make more than minimum wage or a little more, or inherit anything, you are not going to feel like a red hot bread winner or husband.  Also, this problem is also fed by lack of role-models in a cyclical fashion.  Weirdly, up until recently, and still I’m guessing, woman with children were better off financially on Welfare, with no man, than struggling along with a man with menial income.

Talk about emasculating.  These individuals are emasculated in the work arena, as well as in the husband and father arena.  While more opportunities are out there for blacks, they are still as a group improvised, and all that that entails, uneducated, and discriminated against.  Unfortunately, I would say some of this discrimination is understandable.  A person only has to look at a black man and know that he has probably come from a poor background, grew up without quality male role models, has had an inferior education, and more likely than a white man affiliates with a group who has a known high level of criminal activity. (More cyclical problem generating)

I don’t care what some of you people think, living on the edge like this effects people.  Large groups, growing up in generations of people affected this way, are going to generate serious movements of behaviors.  You can call me a bleeding heart or stupid if you like.  But to blame blacks as having something inexplicably wrong with them is a waste of time.  I believe I am right about the source of this problem.  These black men are too proud and far too masculine to accept this type of reality that surrounds them.  They will fight it in everyway they can, good or bad, acceptable or not.  Rules for this group are always hazy at best, anyway.  Like the black panther they identify with, they are poised and ready to take part in the feast of life weather invited or not.  Not being afraid to break the rules of society is instilled in them as a form of psychological necessity and display of masculine strength.  Even the white community has seen and understood the moral of the Rosa Parks story. 

I am not saying any behaviors should thus be accepted. Obviously criminal activity and violence can never be tolerated.  However, changes in laws and administrative policy need to be ever vigilant to empowering black men, as well as promoting the equality of all people.  It is more important to American that the black community is helped in this way than anything we do abroad.  The beginning would be a real war on poverty that is not just a sideline government project, but an all encompassing goal of the culture.

I appreciate the opinions on this topic and have one more comment.  I believe, not just for Blacks but society in general, that women have to look at the role they play in the problems we face.  Perhaps, according to an angry email I received from the NBPP, I am an “old head.” But in my “youth”, most mothers, wives, girlfriends, grandmothers, sisters, would not have permitted behaviors which are acceptable today from the males in their lives.  Regardless of age, race, or social class the breakdown in proper respect for self and others is everywhere.  Much is lost in not teaching children how to constructively handle anger, frustration. Hope often has been replaced with indifference.  Cultural pride too often expressed with intolerance and revenge.  It’s easier to look for targets to blame rather than struggle against the odds. We’ve fallen into a pattern that solves nothing but keeps the system intact.  And I hold women very accountable in this.

Too bad we can’t go back in time to the year 1619 and change what happened at Jamestown.  Since that is impossible, we all should use our free-will and choose to “get over it.” If we do not, we only have ourselves to blame.  Life is too short to remain bitter!

Shove you goddamn “get over it!"s!!!!

Just keep looking the other way, just keep voting Republican, just keep fucking us all.

THANKS FOR NOTHING.

This is the first time since I started following this convo. that I’ve disagreed w/elitarr.  Perhaps your family was an exception, but when most of the U.S. of A. was coming up, families and communities held together not because women didn’t tolerate bs, but because women picked up the pieces of family and community out of enlightened self-interest. My fam. pretends like we used to be matriarchial, too. We weren’t. Women casn own property, business, and other wealth now. If the family just sucks, we can extricate ourselves from it where we couldn’t before. I expect that nightmarish, abusive, disatrous homes back in the day produced a statistically comparable percentage of dangerous sociopaths as low-income, single-parent households produce currently. The data is better now. Mama and them did regulate the family to an extent, but that’s because they always forgave and accepted the fallout. Not because they wouldn’t spring you from jail, but because you had to explain yourself for the next four family dinners afterword.  Where is the family now? All of the men are locked up, sick, or dead. All the women, many with advanced degrees, are caring for our elderly, our sick, and two and a half generations of fatherless and virtually motherless children. Case is, the older generation isn’t so much meaner, but more resiliant.

KT -
I may have grown up differently.  The women would not have sprung anyone from jail, but would have taken them in after they were released, as long as they made an attempt to turn things around.  Back then it was a mark of dishonor, not the badge of manhood some see it as today.  Back then it would break mama’s heart, today mama is as likely doing time. 

I also reference my childhood experience of neighbors making sure children toed the line.  Today, if a neighbor were to chastise a child or march him home by the scruff of his neck to inform mother of misbehavior, it’s more likely to result in assault or lawsuit or neighborhood feud.  My family was never “matriarchial.” I always felt my parents faced one another on equal footing and they made decisions jointly most of the time. 

Also, teachers had more authority to discipline, and if I or my brother had behavior problems in school the punishment at home would be much worse.  Often today, if there’s a problem at school, it’s the mother who gets in the teacher’s face b/c Johnny can do no wrong.  Another behavior I find different is sexually, a “one night stand” was a prostitute or the “town tramp” in my day.  Now it’s considered acceptable social mating behavior.  The women’s movement began with great intentions, but someone somewhere interpreted the movement as simply screw anybody anywhere anytime and you’re liberated.  Back when, there may have been more “shotgun” weddings to induce responsibility but that seems more workable than today’s leap frogging dads and mamas who need DNA to pinpoint who the daddy is.  I agree there were disastrous homes “back in the day” but not to the extent I see today.

I don’t think the older generation “meaner” either, simply held themselves and those near them to a higher code of conduct as that was a reflection of the family and family was the center of life.  I do think women lost the passion for home and hearth and that if women were more attentive in their roles as mothers, wives, etc.  it would make a difference.  I have a career and raised 5 productive successful adults so work and family can be done, but it takes dedication and sacrifice (and resilience).  (And there were times I thought it would never end, and now seems it went to quickly.)

Arguing on these blogs is like running in the Special Olympics - even if you win you are still retarded

elitarr-
Thank you for your response to my note. I believe we basically agree on our impressions of American society, then and now. Where we differ seems to be the sociological explanations behind. Having said that, your points are valid. It’s a huge pet peeve of mine to see parents stick up for their kids when they act out or perform poorly in school. Parents really should feel that their responsibility to the child is to provide tools to succeed in life, not just protection from all who would disagree with of correct the child. Social, and intellectual development suffer when you just insulate from advesity. A child benefits from correction by neighbors, relatives, and good god, teachers! Lazy parenting is rampant and it’s extremely detrimental to society, especially those elements thereof whose toolbox of life skills is their primary means to success.
Thank you for you insightful conversation.
-KT

I have always been totally opposed to three strikes laws, the whole drug war, mandatory minimums, the death penalty and segregation
enforced by law. Slavery was a real contradiction
of our professed libertarian ideals and I’m glad
it was abolished a century and a half ago.
Legal segregation should never have existed but
it has now been long abolished. What hasn’t been
abolished and is mushrooming out of control is
black crime and general black socio-pathology.
As part of a white couple living in a crime-ridden
black area of Oakland I make no apologies for
strong criticism of the degenerate black mo-fo
culture and its degenerate apologists, both white
and black. It’s time for blacks to get off their
“I’m feeling so sorry for myself and it’s all
whitey’s fault” BS line and start cleaning up your
own stinking neighborhoodlums.As a white person
whose ancestors came over in the 1850s to escape the potato famine in Ireland, I don’t owe black people SQUAT.
Neither does my Jewish wife, who once spent a month in jail in Mississipi in 1965 for doing
civil rights work. There are many poor people,
black and otherwise, who do not commit crimes.
I have NO sympathy for the extremely large and
utterly revolting black criminal class. Take your
Marcusian fantasies about lumpen revolution and
stick them up Bob Avakian’s behind.
Ingrid, am I coming loud and clear ?
There’s much more I can include point by point rebuttals to the reparations scam artists, it’s
just another attempted black welfare ripoff.
If we total up a bill for all the black crime
and government handouts over just the last 50
years it would dwarf any reparations claims.
As far my Left credentials go, I’ve written for
Z, the old Commie National Guardian, The Progressive, the Washington Post, East Bay Express and Anderson Valley Advertiser.
If the Left doesn’t wise up PRONTO on the issue
of black crime, it will continue to lose elections for the next 40 years.

So, how long have you been Grand Wizard of the Klan, Michael Hardesty?

Windex, your stupidity is predictable.

Mr. Hardesty-
Why do you continue to live in a “crime-ridden black area of Oakland?” It might help to lift yourself out of such a “neighborhoodlum.” It can be done.  I’ve white friends also who are descended from Irish potato farmers and they’ve done extremely well economically and socially.  (Although they have family members in prison for meth, they are decent white people themselves.) I too have written for one of the papers you name, but agree with Swinton, about journalists being intellectual prostitutes and such.

And your racism is obvious, no matter how you try to sugar-coat it.
Because you’ve written for these publications it gives you license to speak like this? By the way, the writings you refer to are letters to the editor. I know you are an ex-Republican.
I’m guessing you’re probably pro racial-profiling and anti-Affirmative Action.

I’ve heard this tired, weak argument so many times and it sickens me to think there are still people with these attitudes, even though they’re liberal. That’s conter-productive.

You want something prdictable, here it is: attidues like this will only worsen the situation. Your remarks “extremely large and black criminal class” alone tells us you feel black people tend to be criminals. Do you think Mexicans are all here to steal our jobs?

I may be stupid at times--and this isn’t one of them, but I’m not a racist.

You really are stupid, Windex ,or whatever your real name is. When I wrote for Z five times they
were published articles and book reviews.
Ergo for The Guardian, The Progressive, a lengthy
piece for The Sunday Washington Post Editorial
Outlook section on the Pacifica Foundation, a
dozen full length articles or essays for the AVA,
two journalistic pieces for the Express, etc.
Letters I’ve had published in the dozens but these were articles I was referring to.
Alas, in your illiterate screed you do come off
as quite stupid and racist too. That you would
defend black anti-social behavior precisely these
crimes are committed by black people is racist
in and of itself.
In response to the elitarr a-hole, we bought that
house because that is what we could afford at the
time. Would you suggest that a black family similarly harassed in a white neighborhood should
just move ? No, well then your a racist. PERIOD.

Sounds like you’re a bit bitter, Michael Hardesty.
And to accuse ME of being racist--you’ve got to be kidding.
Don’t give me that stuff about having a Jewish wife makes you not a racist.

I’ve read the rants you’ve passed off as letters to the editor. You come off pretty bitter there, too.

I am defending black anti-social behaviour? You have got to be kidding me. I’m not the one who made the racist comments and who complains about the part of the country he lives in. To even make the comments you made, “degenerate black mo-fo
culture and its degenerate apologists”. You’re just looking at race and not issue. That’s racist.

You haven’t proven your points and can’t answer to the ones I raise so you call me stupid.

Oh, childish, bitter little man.

Lol.  First time I’ve been called an asshole simply for telling someone to rise above their lot in life.  Not so easy getting out of the ‘hood’ is it Mr. H.  Have you and your wife considered taking Sharon up on his incentives to return to Israel?  He’s ethnically clearing land for Jewish settlements. (But possibly another bad real estate investment for you.)

Frankly, anyone who would hide behind pseudonyms
is not worth reading. You haven’t had any intelligent rebuttal to the points that I made.
Proving the points would be the project of a
sizable book, and it’s already been done, see
Jared Taylor’s Paved With Good Intentions. There
is no need to reinvent the wheel here. Obviously
race is an issue here. You can’t blame everything
on culture, though the predominant Mo-Fo culture
of the past 60 years in the black community is
a degenerate culture. You haven’t raised any
points to answer, “Windex.” Nor did I claim one
couldn’t be racist if they were Jewish. Where
in your demented mind did you come up with that
nonsequitur ? I was giving my wife’s history as
a former civil rights activist. I personally
have always opposed civil rights as a guise to
set up a police state under the pretense of
liberty as Goldwater correctly stated in 1964
and LBJ in 1948. It’s just the other side of
the coin from slavery and forced Jim Crow laws.
Also where did you get the idea one can’t be
critical of their community ???!!! This sounds
like a rightwinger shouting Love it or Leave it.
Moronic. After living in DC half my life and
Oakland-Berkeley the other half I have every
right to loudly complain about black criminality.
It will nice to move to an area with fewer blacks.
Now for the “elitarr” A-hole, you have no idea of
my station in life. I have worked in corporate
finance for many years and have often made a
substantial amount of money. Our house has risen
in value between three and four times, we bought
it for 126 in 97 and could sell it today for 350-
400K. If we fixed up a few things probably much
more than that. We simply did not see the point of
paying the usual outrageous prices for Bay Area
real estate since when we sell and leave Mudville
we’ll relocate to a different area with better
people and better value for your money. Real
estate in the Bay Area is never a bad investment.
Nor from what I hear in Israel either. The market
around Jerusalem is going through the roof.
Glad you regularly read my letters, they are
witty and to the point as you would know if you
have seen the recent ones published in the Bay
Guardian, the East Bay Express and the Berkeley
Daily Planet. Nothing “bitter” about them, not
that bitter is necessarily bad. It would be hard
to top the bitterness of the letters published
here by various black racists and their white
liberal apologists. So far, you two clowns,
elitarr and windex are batting zero.
All you can do is psychobabble instead of having
a reasonable argument.
I totally stand by my remarks as regards a very large proportion (not all) of the black population in the US. Yes, I am totally opposed to affirmative discrimination and if I was working airport security I’d be profiling Saudis, not Swedes.
Yes, large scale illegal immigration is very
depressing to wages and what other country allows
its borders to be overrun like the US ? If every
country agrees to abolish borders and have total
laissez-faire then I can sign on to it.
Another reason I’m returning to libertarian-
Objectivism. The Left is a bunch of losers.

Frankly ...yawn.  Your rant is the usual misplaced outraged whitewing whining by those who haven’t figured out why we have illegal immigration or why the social decay of his own race and puts “mudville” in the crosshairs as usual.  You’ve never been anything but the tirading wannabee.  Keep singing the Po’me NeoCon Follower Blues.

Well, you can’t respond to specifics and you
have to resort to anti-white racism and your
own projections of your failed life.
You can’t even have the guts to sign your own
real name. There has been a social decay in the
country,I agree. One of the causes is the civil
rights farce and fraud. The reason we have so
much illegal immigration is failure to control
our borders and enforce our laws plus our insane
interventionist foreign policy of backing every
tyranny in Latin America and elsewhere.
First time I’ve ever been called a neocon !

How does using my “real name” = “guts?” Nevermind.  Ah do believe Mr. Hardesty you’re a troll.

I am sure you are an expert on “trolls” whatever
they are.

Does this sound familiar?  “No need to point to what might be left inside of Mr. Michael Hardesty. He has made clear to the world what is left inside of him: VIOLENCE, and HATRED. This old boy is a ticking time bomb.” Signed Ted.

Are you the psycho Ted from the Nathaniel Branden
old website of 2 1/2 years ago ???????
I stand by all my comments there too.
Ted was clearly projecting in the above comments.
He was a total ultra-rightist lunatic as anyone
can see from perusing his threads.

I have no idea who Ted is.  Someone simply told me you were banned from the OaklandNews blog and a comment or two. I’m a biracial female.

Let’s wrap this up. Jeannette Sherwin frequently
banned people she had political disagreements
from her website. She was a pretty obnoxious
person, and frankly pretty racist herself.
She had a public housing project in back of her
and she was the biggest NIMBY in Oakland.
I was more involved in the Greens and she was
a total Demo Party hack. She passed away in
January. I agreed with her on some things about
Oakland politics though.
Ok, good luck to you.

Again with the name-calling, “Michael Hardesty”.

Sure are bitter. And still a racist.

Just call me “Mo Fo”. “Windex” seems to piss you off for some reason.

If you look at the Republican, conservative agenda, you agree with all their issues on the African-American race.

A troll is someone who roams forums, usually contrary to their beliefs, and posts messages designed to attract predictable responses or flames, in an effort to make themselves look intillegent to the rest of the group.

The group that pretty much doesn’t agree with you. It isn’t working.

Blame this, blame that.  On and on it goes.  The FACT is a black is 57 times more likely to commit a violent crime toward a white that otherwise. The FACT is since the so called “Civil Rights Act blacks have committed 170 million violent crimes against whites.  If whites raped, stabbed, robbed and murdered blacks at the same rate that blacks do whites, we would run out of black people in just a month or two. In 1991 US Dept of Justice statistics reported that for every 100 rapes committed by Whites against blacks, blacks committed 20,294 rapes against Whites.  The media does not report the race of the criminal so that Whites will not know what’s going on. And there’s more. Almost a million White Americans were murdered, stabbed, robbed, or raped in 1992 by blacks. 

This is more than ridiculous. This is war.  When the truth of the matter is honestly considered we can come to no other conclusion.

Our enemies know that to force two different races together, (..and force us they did), creates friction and strife.  Then when this happens our enemies offer the solutions to this strife and expect us to pay for problems they created.  Pretty neat.  Keeps us terrified and under control. It also gives the opportunity to expand the police state.

Hey, what’s new?

Well said Plato.  The South Africans had it right.  Since we betrayed their right to their own nation whites are being slaughtered.  Land stolen from them and the fools responsible are eating the seed corn. Now Americans will have to feed the disgusting animals.

Separation is the answer.  Every great nation in history started with a single race pooling resources and progressing as a result.  As time went on and “diversity” became the order of the day, (nothing new, it’s called the “Balak Plan"), the nations decayed and finally crumbled to dust. A good example is Alexander’s great university experiment.  As usual it failed miserably and Greece fell. 

As for you Christians out there, your God states very clearly that you are to be separate, “for ye are a peculiar people.” You are not to give your daughters to their sons or otherwise.  You are not to allow them into your churches nor are you allowed to eat and drink with them. Your Creator knew what he was doing. We have ignored Him and our children are dying at the hands of the “stranger” as a result.

That makes us guilty of this great criminal disparity in this country.

“Windex” I’m afraid your word salad makes less
sense than usual, which is already a very low standard.
I notice that you apparently cannot deal with any
of the substantive points I make. You do nothing
but call names starting with your first KKK post.
I give arguments in addition to characterizing
(briefly) yourself.
Plato makes excellent points.
I’m a left libertarian, not a conservative
Repug. I disagree with them on three strikes laws,
the death penalty, mandatory minimums, the drug
wars, US foreign policy, gay rights, abortion
and much more. Sorry I don’t fit your stereotype.
I rarely post on forums, so I’m afraid I don’t fit
the “troll” label either.
PS You need to learn to spell as well as think.

Hey Windex,

The modern definition of a racist is a “liberal” losing an argument. 

You fit that profile perfectly.  It is also becoming obvious the “modern definition” is true.

Plato, you are correct on those statistics.  It is really a shame it’s all true because the black folks out there who do want to make an honest living are tainted by these facts.  Even Bill Cosby admonished black society for this. 

As for that day in Jamestown… The colonists in Virginia passed over 100 laws against slavery but to no avail. The king forced in down their throats with guns because he had debts to pay to the jewish bankers.  (The borrower is slave to the lender).  The great merchant fleets that brought the slaves here were also owned by jews.  All through history we find jews at the center of the slave trade.  In the open they decry the institution but in the shadows they profit from it. 

There are two sides to every story and in reality the so called “white” side has been silenced.  In many cases in history “whites” have been blamed for crimes and injustice when in fact those “whites” were Khazar jews, because in many cases jews app