Something has gone seriously haywire with the Republican Party. Once, it was the party of pragmatic Main Street businessmen in steel-rimmed spectacles who decried profligacy and waste, were devoted to their communities and supported the sort of prosperity that raises all ships. They were good-hearted people who vanquished the gnarlier elements of their party, the paranoid Roosevelt-haters, the flat Earthers and… return to article
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Reader Comments (1673)The People have been sold out by both sides of the aisle.
My representatives elected to the legislature have been superceeded by the unelected lobbyist peddling influence with cash.
And no one has the courage to stop this because it’s again like the rats in the cage getting free crack when they push the button. No one wants to cut off the supply.
This great experiment in democracy is eating itself from within. The power brokers are throwing distractions like “terrorism” and “traditional values” at the over-fed sheep called the electorate while the monarchy of wealth continues to stuff their pockets while no one’s looking.
This is not about “left” or “right”, it’s about “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine”.
But no one will do anything becasue we’ve been programmed not to question out of fear of being labled “un-patriotic”.
Well, this patriot remembers that this country was founded upon the distrust and limitation of government’s power and will cast a vote reinforcing that ideal despite the slime of a waffle-maker and and ambulance chaser hanging on the ballot.
I which I had a better choice.
For all you Nader and 3rd party proponents, you don’t get it either—you can’t buind a pyramid from the top. We elect a President, not a King. Without a power base in the Legislature placing a 3rd party candidate on top will get us nothing but gridlock because there’s no one to support the agenda in the Senate and the House.
We need to fix this from the bottom-up unfortunatly—get out and vote for the ideals of this country—freedom and liberty—not the selfish, bigoted, comfortable status quo.
Posted by Slim Anthony on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:24 AM So ur saying Kerry will do much better huh? Strange how he voted (yes he was actually in congress that day) for the war and even said so himself that Saddam H. must be delt with. If kerry becomes president we are in a world of hurt. This guy has not stayed straight on an issue his entire life. You guys say Bush is using 9/11 for his campaining? What do u think Kerry talks about non-stop? Vietnam! In which all he did was take a few “sniper shots” and pulled a guy out of the water. There’s a swift boat veteran that lives 40 minutes from me and I heard his story not only on Fox News, but through his neihbor, my friend. I could care less what Kerry did 30 years ago.
And about those swiftboat adds, Bush has nothing to do with them and even explained how he wished they would stop
Posted by zach m. on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:36 AM Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.
Very true.
Posted by Giovanni on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:04 AM I think Kerry voted for the invasion (this is NOT a war, we invaded a non-agressive country) because there wasn’t time to unravel the lies presented as fact.
I also don’t like Kerry, but I think he will do less damage.
At least he WENT into combat as opposed to AWOL George, and Chaney hiding at home.
These guys miss no sleep sending kids to die for their personal corporate agendas.
Posted by Slim Anthony on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:25 AM Slim Anthony,
Maybe a little gridlock would be a good thing. We’ve seen what happens when you get a three-branch majority in one camp.
Kurt
Posted by Kurt Christensen on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:59 AM Mr. Keillor puts a sesquipedalian and logorrheic veneer on the standard Democratic swill… ho hum.
I’m not a Christian, but I wonder where I can get a copy of Keillor’s edition of the Bible, wherein Jesus evidently tells someone who asks how to get to heaven “See that rich guy over there? Beat him up, take all he has and give it to the poor.”
(As someone with Deaf friends, I am offended by the “deaf, dumb, and dangerous” line.)
Posted by James on Sep 1, 2004 at 11:30 AM I pity you poor hollow republicans. May God have mercy on you. Read about Nazi Germany and how the people went along with the Nazi party and you will read about yourselves. You will take note of the ending. You are blind. You are weak. You cannot think for yourselves. Instead of criticizing Garrison you should try to learn from him. Knowledge is your enemy. Hate is your brother.
For every one of you that votes for bush you should sign up to serve in the military at the same time. Put your money where your mouth is. Ah ha I thought so. Talk is cheap just like the talk of your paper tiger that sends my brothers and sisters to die in Iraq. Get your butts over there and support “Your President” or shut the hell up and let some real thinking men do the work of fixing this country. Men who care about everyone not just themselves. Men who love this country and don’t want to put down anyone like your president and you seem to be hell bent on doing. If you want to fault democrats it is true that they care about both sides and that, when it comes to caring about you could be a mistake.So go and vote for bush and sign up for the military and go to Iraq, adopt a crack baby, make your daughter/wife/mommy have a baby from being raped, destroy our environment, deny good Americans their civil rights, oh hell let’s bring back slavery while we’re at it, (oh did I tell you this time it will be you who will be the slaves, never mind). Imprison people without due process, give to the needy rich, your God is the only God (look how wonderful that is working out around the world), work for nothing (oh your good job was just outsourced), give more to the needy rich (the giving that never stops giving), put all your descendents into massive debt, and last but not least work towards a one party system for our country until you drop dead (hopefully very soon) because as we all know that is what has made our country what it is (was) today. Be proud of yourselves you Republicans, God speaks through your president.
Posted by JIMBOY on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:20 PM We are fans from America and Lake Wobegon.
Thanks for articulating what so many of us feel.
Desperate times call for desperate language which you provide so well.Have ordered your new book from our English bookseller here.(Bergli Books)
Posted by Jane Christ on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:29 PM Garrison pointed to ‘gut the IRS’ as a bad thing. This is the one thing the Democrats need to take and RUN WITH!! Read about the FairTax. All of it. Especially the idea of the rebate for living expenses. This is the one way to stop all the hippocritical talk about “doing something, as long as it doesn’t affect MY economy”. We need to put the cost of government on the back of consumption. Consumption is what is paying the lobbyists, the crooks, and the terrorists. Consumption is ending cheap oil. The end of cheap oil is just the beginning of oil PROFITS. If you think the oil companies and the Bush family got rich on the oil industry so far, wait until the price gets to 100.00 per barrel!! It won’t cost them anything to STOP pumping. But it will cost them if WE STOP USING.
Buy less, Buy local, buy only what you need. Get the Democrats to realize that the best thing to help everyone is the FairTax. PLEASE, time is short, and the Republicrats are vulnerable now.
Posted by Dan on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:30 PM Sesquipedalian logorrheic. Just the use of those words makes what they say hypocritcal. Seems to be appropriate discription of you. How clever.
Try to argue your point using facts intsead of bs James. Hey but then again a good republican never let the facts get in their way.
Posted by JIMBOY on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:35 PM Joanne, Slim, and Bernie:
Posting here has been informative. You have not been parroting the standard Dem lines and I’ve tried not to parrot the GOP. I will still listen to GK whenever I can, and hope that we can get back to Lake Wobegon. I don’t agree that the right has taken us away from there, I blame the Islamo-fascists, but I accept that you folks will disagree with me.
I certainly can’t speak for everybody on the right. But I want peace, liberty, and justice for all. I think we can find areas of agreement between right and left to work from rather than blindly attacking each other and not listening.
Posted by Fat Tony on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:37 PM Thanks for the laugh and views of one who makes his living by telling stories about a mythical town, habitated by imaginary people and supports a similar imagined Democratic party!
1. I liked FDR! He put people to work via WPA, CCC and allowed them to earn money, learn skills and help build America. Today, via welfare, healthcare, subsidized housing and college scholarships, Democrats believe you give people everything and ask nothing in return. How many generations of “charity families” will it take to realize it takes motivation and self-help to gain success?
2. I liked your comparison of Reagan doing ads while Mc Govern fought, but can’t figure why you chose Clinton who ran off to Canada and England rather than be drafted and not Bob Dole, a true war hero?
3. Lastly, I enjoyed your “blaming” George W Bush for the 9-11 catastrophy, having been in office only 8 months, but found no guilt with John Kerry, who had served in Congress for over
20 years and in recent years had voted to cut FBI budget by 80%; the CIA budget by 60% and NSA budget by 60%, while increasing funding to the UN by 800%. Does he not carry some blame for the lack of security and intelligence?Again, thanks for the laugh and Sen. Zell Miller hopes Gaarrison will come to his senses soon and join those trying to help America, not only finding blame with those who earn profits and put people to work!
Posted by Bill Henderson on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:46 PM Jim - fantastic illustration of how information, once again, fails to translate into wisdom.
Although it is against my better judgment, let me counter a few of your more absurd assertions:
1) “Read about Nazi Germany…” - I resent the de-facto implication that I am intolerant, or the even more insipid implication that I am in favor of the eradication of those whose opinions are contrary to mine. I am a Christian, true, but I welcome, respect, and admire people of all faith and value systems.
2) “You are blind. You are weak. You cannot think for yourselves.” - My eyes have seen the emotional, psychological, and physical horrors of this world in ways that you cannot imagine. It takes a man of true conviction to stand up in the face of horror. I’ve done it. Have you? As for the inability to think for myself, since when has original thought become the Intellectual Property of the Democratic Party? I hate to say it, but your words, Jim, only serve to convict your own narrow-mindedness.
3) “For every one of you that votes for bush you should sign up to serve in the military at the same time. Put your money where your mouth is. Ah ha I thought so…” - Jim, I signed up in 1988, at the age of 19, to serve my Air Force as a member of an air/sea rescue unit. I was a week away from basic training when a previously disclosed medical condition disqualified me from service. I cried because I was unable to serve my country. So, true, I won’t be in Iraq in the line of fire. But I would take up arms and die over there were my country to ask it of me. Why are all you folks so scared of death? I can think of no finer way to die than serving the country that gave us so much. Iraq *is* justified.
4) “adopt a crack baby…” - have you?
5) “make your daughter/wife/mommy have a baby from being raped…” - I have never done this. I am against partial-birth abortion, however. I think it’s entirely heinous.
6) “deny good Americans their civil rights…” - I don’t care to do this. What examples do you have of this happening?
7) “oh hell let’s bring back slavery while we’re at it…” - now, Jim, I think you’re getting a little carried away. too much coffee this morning? besides, it’s the Democrats that enslave black people through the welfare system that they continue to support as “charity.”
As for the rest of your slander, Jim, you do very well to earn the “boy” on the end of your moniker. the last time I can remember being as angry as you was in college. you’re in college, still, aren’t you?
Those who know me know that I am an open charitable giver, one who volunteers his free time to help the poor and homeless, mentors youth, mourns every time another soldier dies, and broadens his view of the world every day through the pursuit of literature, arts, and the careful consideration of opposing views. Yours, I lament to say, I have given too much consideration to already.
Garrison is a smart man, he’s just wrong.
Posted by Truth, Again on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:55 PM Cowpox seems to be suffering from it. Or, possibly spending too much time waiting for the apocalypse. In which case I’ll root for the roaches thank you very much. Thanks Garrison.
Posted by SAE on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:57 PM Fat Tony,
You might want to look up the word ‘fascist’. It isn’t just someone you don’t like, it also can mean someone who wants corporate/industrial interests to run state affairs.
That meaning pretty much rules out the Islamists, whether extreme or not, and doesn’t bode well for our current ‘leaders’ (using the term loosely).
It doesn’t have to mean a bad thing, but to be a good thing, it would require ethical behavior by corporations, which is pretty much ruled out by our current system’s tax codes.
‘Moderate’ Republicrats like to say we should be running government like a business. ‘Running government like a business’ would mean making ‘profits’ (constantly growing government, more military, marketing the need for more government, brand definition of ‘Democracy’) any way they can, regardless of whether the resources are taken from us, others, or the future people of Earth.
As long as profits are only considered cash money, rather than increased ‘net creativity’ of the human race, then government will always be run like a business, and business will always run government. If people want to believe that their destiny is to make money, then all they have to do is keep going in debt to buy ‘stuff’, and their freedom of choice is ‘sold’ to the system. The chains may be silent, but they are still chains.
Posted by Dan on Sep 1, 2004 at 12:58 PM Thanks Garrison for telling it like it is. Kind of like the little boy in “The Emperor has No Clothes”.
Posted by Robin on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:02 PM Mr. “Truth”:
Once again there are only small worded sound bites and no justification in your statement “Iraq *is* justified.” You don’t say why it is, you just say it like mantra hoping that others will believe.
Near 1000 US military caskets, 10000 unarmed civilians, $200 billion coming out of our pockets, no threat to the US and you say it’s justified.
$200B could have paid off the entire combined State’s debt. Now THAT would have been justified.
Today’s a great anniversary to mark another invasion:
Sep 1 1939
Hitler reluctantly invades Poland, but only after being provoked by warmongering Poles. The previous night, a Polish commando team shot their way into a German radio station in the border town of Gleiwitz, and broadcasted a radical call to arms against the peaceloving people of Germany. Except that it was all an elaborate sham engineered by Nazi general Reinhard Heydrich, dubbed Operation Canned Goods.
Posted by Springtime for H on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:30 PM Please take my name off the comments list.You are sending me every response to the main article and it is clogging my mailbox.
Posted by Jane Christ on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:30 PM Margo says: “If GW gets reelected in Nov, we’re discussing emmigrating to New Zealand.”
My husband and I have talked seriously of retiring to Australia, and if W gets back in, that option becomes an increasingly safer way to guarantee that we will have something to retire WITH. Watching W loot the treasury and gut the government, I can only wonder—what will be left for my children, my grandchildren? Working until they are 80, making minimum wage, breathing and drinking the pollution of the corporations that feed on their souls? An ugly picture, yes, but one W would never see; by then he’ll have the windows of the White House boarded up and only watch the TV feed from the bunker of his Big Boys’ Clubhouse.
Posted by MJB on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:38 PM The smug self-righteousness of committed leftists is something to behold.
In fact, the smug self-righteousness of both sides is something to behold. I am betting that rabid partisanship is going to be worse this year than we have ever seen.
Keillor appears to be unaware of the fact that tax cuts normally increase government revenues and increase the share of the tax paid by the wealthy. Leftist are reflexively, thoughtlessly, against tax cuts and “rich people”. The fact that the top 20% of income earners pay 80 % of the income taxes in this country goes unnoticed.
Keillor displays a Michael Moorish level of analysis when he says that Bush started a war in Iraq for his “personal satisfaction” ( combined, of course, with the obligatory reference to Halliburton ). And his sentence attacking the patriotism of Ronald Reagan was equally pathetic. I don’t know if anybody ever loved this country more than Reagan.
Posted by Bryce on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:43 PM Springtime, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind about the war on Iraq, I’m just expressing my opinion. Therefore, proof is not required. The only “proof” I have is what’s in my heart, and that’s awful hard to put down on paper.
Posted by Truth Five on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:44 PM Dan,
Thanks for the lesson, I thought fascist was just somebody I didn’t like! Sarcasm aside, I took your advice and looked it up. Let me tell you the Webster definition of fascism:
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Hmm, nothing about corporate/industrial interests running state affairs. It is you who is using the word to mean somebody you don’t like.
Posted by Fat Tony on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:51 PM You are blind Truth. Blind to the real truth about yourself.
(1) Do you support the gays rights to be married?
The comparison to the Nazi’s was to show how the good people of Germany were led like sheep to what happened. They too thought they were on the right side.(2)Narrow mindedness? Your just another regular person who says he supports many good things and then supports the party that doesn’t. (Read-“What’s the Matter With Kansas”). The republican party used to stand for some good things but you are now being hood winked.
(3) I am a vet dude. I didn’t have an excuse not to serve. Get your ass in gear and go over to Iraq or some other war zone and volunteer or find some of your friends and get them to sign up and support the war. Keep it up cause they are going to be needing many more if this party stays in control of things. Good Christian.
(4)If you support the repubs you are supporting anti abortion. That is their end game dude. Hide behind any words you like. It’s so easy for you to decide for others. This is another put your money where your mouth is. Support no abortions, then adopt that baby.
(5)See #4
(6)Anti gay amendment to the US Constitution. Patriot act. We’re just getting started.
(7) Wow what the hell is that about Truby? I can see a lot of racism in that comment. Just take a look around and you will see the new slavery being present all over this country in the form of the minimum wage. It’s so easy to criticize when you have a safe place to hide. Make them have those babies and then expect them to live on minimum wage. Wow such compassion from you.
I don’t know you true. But I do know your kind. All of what I say comes from my heart. In my heart I know right from wrong and the republican party is heading us down the wrong road.
Garrison is right and he is a smart man. At least you got half of that correct. What Garrison says is fact. Yes there can be just one right to a problem. So sorry.If you are a Christian then why don’t you study what Jesus had to say. Try not to just pick and choose. I find that most or many Christians want to have their cake and eat it to. They say the bible say this about this but then ignore what it says about that. If you are a Christian then you cannot support the war. You cannot support the republicans many anti-Christian positions.
If your party would be the way it says it is I would be more inclined to believe them. But alas they talk the talk but don’t walk the walk.
Your president took us to a war without just cause, real people have died not just numbers on a paper. Our deficit is sky-rocketing and our children are going too have to pay for it. Your party wants to use the constitution to take away rights from our citizens. Your party doesn’t want to protect our great environment.
We can spend billions on an unjust war but welfare is bad and helping our own citizens is not possible. Taking better care of our country is not possible.
Yes Jesus would be so proud of all of you.
So get behind that truth dude.
Posted by JIMBOY on Sep 1, 2004 at 1:52 PM Is the world a safer place since invading Iraq.I highly doubt it. How many people died in the last week do to terrorism? To many! Invading Iraq was not justified. I can think of a couple of other countries who really are producing WMDs. Are we going to invade them while leaving Iraq unfinished (like Afghanistan). By the way what was so special about Iraq?
Posted by Billy on Sep 1, 2004 at 2:00 PM To Truth IV—
Well, you’re up early this morning. Did the kegger not materialize last night because you and the brothers couldn’t sit still for the convention’s pro-choice speakers (including Laura Bush) who continue to run away from the Republiban platform? Or was Neal Young right when he said “rust(y logic) never sleeps”?
It is odd (and a bit sad) that you don’t think enough of yourself to use your own name, nor enough of your moniker (truth, indeed—look up “hubris” in the dictionary) to use the same one throughout this thread. Now you’re Truth IV (seems like a never-ending series of bad Stallone movies). And what does IV stand for—Inanely Vacuous, Inarticulate (but unbearingly) Virtuous, IntraVenous?
If you have time today, read your Party’s platform. Very vocal and influential members of your Party want to ban all abortions—not just late-term ones (which occur so infrequently that the overwhelming majority of OB/GYNs in this country, when polled, say they’re unaware that even one partial-birth procedure has ever occurred in their hospitals). To her credit, Laura Bush is pro-choice, but we won’t be electing her and she has no role in appointing the next Supreme Court judges. That role will fall to whomever is controlling Bush’s brain after all restraints imposed by him having to face the electorate again have been lifted. Most of us (including former moderate Republicans) really do fear that “we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet”.
As far as “gay marriage” goes, why do the Republibans waste our time focusing on such issues? You folks seem always to be preoccupied with controlling who’s fiddling whom while Rome is burning all around us. As far as the sanctity of marriage, I agree with an earlier writer who said that—if you are really so concerned—you should push a constitutional amendment to ban divorce and impose the death penalty on adulterers. That would work better than term limits for cleaning out the Congress (and our state legislatures too). But then, who would we have left to run the country—priests and Heaven’s Gate cultists?
By the way, as a happy (and spiritually fit) ex-Catholic, I am a lot more worried about the Vatican’s influence on our body politic today with Duh-bya in the White House than I ever was with Kennedy. Defend the separation of church and state—defeat Bush.
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Sep 1, 2004 at 2:04 PM There is a sadness in me; I fear the evildoers now in office will sleaze power again. I fear this evil will not goaway untill the true Father of men comes back and does away with it. The future is bleak, empty, consumed by those who would have more than others. America has been done in by lies, greeed, and evil of very deceptive practice. I will vote: will my vote matter?
Posted by emald on Sep 1, 2004 at 2:04 PM “The concept of an open society is based on the recognition that people act on the basis of imperfect knowledge and nobody is in possession of the ultimate truth.”
www.soros.org
JIM, your assertion that there can be but one truth is the largest fallacy known to man. It what creates the kind of hate that you eschew. Are truly incapable of comprhending that there can be two distinct, diametrically opposed, yet equally true concepts?
When is the last time, JIM, that you volunteered your time—not just your words—to help the poor or disavantaged? I do it every week, without fail.
JIM…every heard of an automatic 7-year medical DQ? The last time I checked, the military telling you that you cannot serve is not an “excuse”
These are my last words to you, JIM, do a little research on the philisophical concept of “duality.’
Posted by La Sexta Verdad on Sep 1, 2004 at 2:15 PM Here you have the art of dissent for arts’ sake. Never surrender a point, or even acknowledge that one has been made. Deflect, diffuse, debase, deny and destroy. Bury them in false precision, appeals to everything beside the point, and ad hominem abusive. All opponents elements are to be refuted for concession is a sign of weakness and you must win at all costs. This dialectic nonsense just consumes itself. To engage is to lose time. No one wins these things.
Posted by Brooks on Sep 1, 2004 at 2:53 PM Garrison,
I have become addicted to politics as a result of
My concerns for our Democracy. Your wonderful article is simply the clearest and best written piece on the subject of our threatened Country I’ve read as yet. Please write more. You might consider taking a break from the entertainment business for the next couple of months so that you could work full time to try to get Bush kicked out of the White House.Thanks very much,
Jim Ferguson
Posted by jim ferguson on Sep 1, 2004 at 3:14 PM I was sure we would be reading many articles of this nature. It just hasen’t happened. I find that scary! This pinpoints so many things wrong with the mindset of this generation! What has happened to questioning things that appear so wrong? Why are we so fearful? How did we allow such shallow,mean,fearful and yes…deceitful people hoodwink us? This happened to another country not all that long ago!!! Anyone remember Germany? Kristin Thomas(SLP/Special Educator)
Posted by Kristin Thomas on Sep 1, 2004 at 3:18 PM “The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers…” That whole paragraph captures perfectly why I am no longer a Republican, and I couldn’t have said it better myself. I voted for Al Gore, and I’ll vote for John Kerry, because, pardon me, I WANT the president of the United States to be articulate, well-travelled, and aware of the world around him (or her!). Please, no more “faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys…”
Posted by Pandionna on Sep 1, 2004 at 3:30 PM You Bush Bashers crack me up! You act like Kerry is “your man” when, in fact, you would gush over any moron with a D after his name. You’re so lock-step liberal that you’re blind to the hypocricy that the Democratic party has become. Go back to France, Garrison. You fit right in.
Posted by Mike Gilmore on Sep 1, 2004 at 3:42 PM The essential problem is that the left can’t get out of their own heads. They can formulate positions until the cows come home but they’ve got no scientific follow through, no ability to apply their theories to real conditions and accept the results. If their theory doesn’t work, it just means they didn’t shout loud enough.
Posted by Brooks on Sep 1, 2004 at 4:02 PM Brooks - your comments are truly exasperating and not borne out by the facts. Please look into the following and don’t expect others to always do your thinking for you: environmental law, worker safety law, auto safety requirements, expansion of minority rights. The list is much longer, but I don’t want to overwhelm you. In addition, we are talking about politics and public policy here, not science, which by the way, your buddy Bush undermines at every possible opportunity when the facts don’t agree with his nonsensical world view. “God speaks through me,” indeed! Gag, gag, gag. I both senses of the word.
Even a cursory look at recent history will show you that the left has no problem getting out of their own heads. The real problem we have is getting the right INTO their heads once in awhile. If you don’t believe me, just listen to Limbaugh (if you don’t already) and consider how proud his followers are to call themselves dittoheads.
Sheesh. How about making a contribution of something other than what you heard on talk radio? And please don’t mistake passionate interest and committment with shouting for the sake of just gassing about nothing. If you read this entire board you’ll see plenty of that on both sides, but you’ll also read the thoughts of many people who have taken the time to try to have a dialog. If you don’t really want to participate, then don’t post for crying out loud.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 1, 2004 at 4:40 PM sound familiar?
===================
Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine—a journal of humanist thought. The article is titled ‘Fascism Anyone?’, by Laurence Britt, and appears in Free Inquiry’s Spring 2003 issue on page 20.Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of:
* Hitler (Germany)
** Mussolini (Italy)
*** Franco (Spain)
**** Suharto (Indonesia)
***** Pinochet (Chile)He found the regimes had 14 things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism.
The 14 characteristics are:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism—Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights—
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need”. The people tend to ‘look the other way’ or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause—The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military—Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.
Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism—The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6. Controlled Mass Media—Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security—Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined—
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected—The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed—Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts—Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free _expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment—Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption—Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections—Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Posted by gha on Sep 1, 2004 at 4:44 PM I am a Christian who is sad over what is happening to our country. There was a time that Republicans were respectful. There was integrity. There was a time when I was proud to vote Republican. Now we hear more and more hateful rhetoric. An example are the words of Mike Gilmore (see his comments below) coming from the party that once stood up for equality and justice. This kind of rhetoric is thoughless and hateful. Mr. Gilmore cannot defend anything that he has said. The words resemble the tantrum of a child. Now so many Republicans have become Newt Gingrich/TomDeLay style Republicans. The tantrums and reasoning of children. This is not a time for children, it is a time for courageous and responsible adults. Adults with open minds who think.
So many in the Republican party appear as robots. Truly many in the party seem to be the ones who are in “lock-step”. Their actions are thoughtless and rude. Yet, they call themselves Christian. I do not see humility or love. They are as “sounding brass, a tinkling cymbal, yet they have not love”. There appears to be little love and less caring. They seem to love only their own, and hate their “enemies”. I am beginning to believe that their enemies are not so much the Iranians, French or terrorists. Their enemies are the majority of Americans.
“We should take over their countries, kill their leaders and convert them all to Christianity” - quote from Ann Coulter, conservative columnist. If there is Christian love in this statement, I fail to find it.
When we meet Christ we will all have to answer for our sinfulness. I fear for the souls of these poor people. They do not live what Christ taught. Words are cheap. Christ said that we would know his followers by the fruit that they bear. By our actions! Many in the Republican party deny the very principles of Christian behavior, while they cloak themselves in “Christian” rhetoric. I am sorry but I do not see Christ in their actions. The results of many of their actions are even worse.
Today I will say a prayer for Mr. Gilmore and the Republican Party. These poor folk are our brothers and sisters and need our prayers.
When we see atheists, agnostics and non-Christians entering the Kingdom of God before many who called themselves Christians, we will understand why. They lived Christ’s teachings!
May God have mercy on us. May He have mercy on our nation. May God protect us from Fascism.
I thank Mr. Keillor for his honesty and courage.
Gary M Cole, Seattle, WA
Mr Gilmore’s comments:
“You Bush Bashers crack me up! You act like Kerry is “your man” when, in fact, you would gush over any moron with a D after his name. You’re so lock-step liberal that you’re blind to the hypocricy that the Democratic party has become. Go back to France, Garrison. You fit right in.”Posted by Mike Gilmore on September 1, 2004 at 10:42 AM
Posted by Gary M Cole on Sep 1, 2004 at 4:44 PM Also on fascism - google Henry Wallace and look for the article he wrote shortly after he was FDR’s third term VP. Sorry I don’t have the link. He sounded the warning then because, like Ike after him, he saw the danger of the rise of the corporations during and after WWII.
Don’t just link fascism with Hitler and then assume that we are accusing Bush of being Hitler. That’s too simplistic and not what we’re saying. Fascism is not one person, though it requires a figurehead, which in this particular case is…well, draw your own conclusions.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 1, 2004 at 4:51 PM Dear Joanne Roush,
RE:
> don’t expect others to always do your thinking for you> your buddy
> How about making a contribution of something other than what you heard on talk radio
> don’t post for crying out loud
These are ad hominem abusive mixed with fascist suppression. Here endeth the lesson.
Posted by Brooks on Sep 1, 2004 at 4:54 PM Very well written and profound. What I always try to point out to people is that anyone making less than $125,000/yr. and is Republican, is insane! And these modern Christian Coalition Republicans know this and know they can’t win without the middle class, so they have done a very adept job over the years of bullsh*tting them into believing that they are the party with all the Christian morals and patriotism. They say they want government out of our lives, but they want to dictate who you vote for and how often (Republicans as a rule, are staunch supporters of term limits- by the way- ya ever notice that the big push for term limits has abated since the Republicans took control of congress?), they want to tell women what they can and cannot do with their wombs, they want to tell people who and how in our bedrooms…the hypocrisy goes on and on, as you know all too well. Good job, Mr. Keillor- I hope your efforts and the efforts of people like Michael Moore will wake America up!
Posted by Charles Polglase on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:05 PM I have a feeling Gary Cole knows what he is talking about. I wonder if Jesus will tell anybody to “****yourself” when he comes to visit.
Posted by Jerry on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:05 PM Garrison Keillor, you have such literary whit, I’ll give you that. Your effectiveness in the political debate, marginal. Just like the rhetoric coming from the right, your words only speak to your base while the country screams for another option. Yet the Bush haters are too afraid to vote Green, even though that is where their position is. Likewise the conservatives are too afraid to vote libertairian, even though most believe in their platform.
You are all cowards to the great political process our founding fathers gave us. Hypocrites spouting hatred on both sides but neither side having a shred of decency to elevate the debate.
Garrison, you are from Minnesota, you have seen that a 3rd party can win elections. Instead you scream the same mantra right in with the rest of it, from both sides, while your own beloved state has become, *gasp* REPUBLICAN.
It’s time for a real change and neither a democrat or republican will bring that upon us.
Posted by Matthew on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:16 PM Garrison:
This is the best piece of fiction you have ever written. The part about “embittered academics” almost persuaded me that you were trying to be accurate.
What? No mention of Haliburton? We all know that the company name will change to the “Dick Cheney Company” after Bush wins.
Posted by Ted on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:17 PM Anger and disgust about the sorry state of our nation is something many of us share, but few of us share the formidable writing skills of the estimable Garrison Keillor, who so eloquently articulates his rage.
Posted by Mary-Ann C. on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:18 PM Brooks - once again, all hat no cattle. Why don’t you compose something with some substance and get back to us later? Far from censoring you, I am encouraging your true participation. We’ll see if you’ve got what it takes whenever you decide to make a real effort.
Bernie, Lyle and Fat Tony - I wrote a too-long post much earlier today and for some reason it didn’t show up. Probably too long, so I’m going to chop it in half. I am having such a great time with you all. What a motley crew we are - smart alecky true-blue liberal, intensely sane Viet Nam vet, good-humored ex-fratboy Republican, and mousy mouthy midwestern domestic goddess! What a great country!
Here’s the first part of my earlier post:
Fat Tony: You’ve done a good job of not getting angry and it’s really good to jam with you. My mother also used to say it takes all kinds and you’d be welcome at my firepit any night. Import or domestic beer? I want you to do me one great favor and go to the RNC web site and read the party platform. It differs greatly from the comforting platitudes offered by the speakers who will be soothing the folks at Madison Square Garden. I am encouraged by the (widely known) fact that the RNC has found it necessary to misrepresent the platform to its thousands of followers in the hall and nationwide. This indicates to me that they know that it does not represent the desires for peace, liberty and justice for all that you and most of your fellow Republicans hold dear.
On this point, I think the Republicans who are so outraged by Keillor’s article have misplaced their anger. If they would do what historians do, and read from original sources, they would find the wool being torn from their eyes. Read Wolfowitz and Perle and their dreams of empire; read Grover Norquist’s dreams of shrinking government by loading it down with unmanageable debt; follow the money trail through Halliburton straight to Cheney’s office; read the platform and see how they are determined to amend the constitution in order to restrict freedoms and effectively cut off debate and decision making on the state and local level in regard to issues of public/private morality. Finally, read about their goals to appoint activist judges to support these new amendments and gut protections offered by the original amendments to the US Constitution: The Bill of Rights. Then you all can reach your own conclusions. If you want to state your opinions it is a good thing to have more than the rants and platitudes of the media pundits on which to base your claims.
Having said that, I want to make sure that I address the objections of the Bush supporters, Nader acolytes, anarchists, revolutionists, and disillusioned Democrats that John Kerry is no better or no different than Bush. You are correct, up to a point. Our system of government is so corrupted at this point, from top to bottom, by the influence of, not money per se, but a certain class of moneyed individuals and groups, that it would be impossible for someone who is not him/herself a ‘player’ to even get into the primary in an effective way. Nader is a perfect example. He has now been forced to prostitute himself by allowing Republicans to turn out their volunteers to get him on the ballot in numerous states. It’s enough to make an idealist weep. And rant.
But the time has come to dry our tears, people. The time has come, finally, for the Boomers to grow up. We’ve made a mess out of things. Our parents lived through the Depression in their youth and laid down their lives by the hundreds of thousands to fight against fascism. The survivors went on to college under the GI Bill, or into factories where they formed and strengthened the unions whose efforts have until recently protected all workers’ rights. They bought homes and tried to give us all the things they didn’t have.
Our generation, sadly, has little to show for our parent’s sacrifices. Our youthful idealism did contribute to ending the war in Viet Nam, the expansion of civil rights for minorities, the disabled, and women, and measures to protect the environment from threats our parents did not foresee. But we didn’t stay in for the long haul. We got comfortable and smug and decided in the 80’s to go for the bucks. What have we produced in the end? Record rates of debt, divorce, juvenile crime/pregnancy/ suicide/despair, the widest gap between the wages of workers and those of management ever seen in the modern world, the widest gap between the rich and poor since the 1920’s, stagnant incomes, a failing health care system, declining water and air quality, global climate change, and deregulation that now permits corporations to dictate the terms of our lives in more ways than you can shake a stick at, an exploding prison population. I could go on, but you get the point.
Now we have been stampeded by fear into chipping away at the founding principles of this nation. If half of us turn out to vote in a given election, it is pronounced a stunning success. Of that, a vocal minority has managed to set the terms of the debate and we waste our time hurling mud at each other instead of at least agreeing that there are real challenges and engaging in thoughtful discussion about how to address them. We allow ourselves to be fed a constant diet of mental junk food, so our brains have become even flabbier than our middle-aged asses.
As my 75-year old father-in-law loves to say: Hard Cheese. This is who we have become. Hundreds of thousands of people have chosen to deal with their cognitive dissonance by taking anti-depressant medications, consuming alcohol in excess, eating themselves into a health crisis, or just tuning into ‘reality TV.’ As if.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:26 PM Here’s the rest:
Many people on this board see that now we are called to do some very great and hard things. It starts with awareness, indeed self-awareness. There is no substitute for a coherent personal philosophy, whether based on Christian or other religious principles, secular humanism, or whatever. But you’ll never be able to truly stand up for principles if you don’t have any. Take a little time every day and examine your attitudes and actions. Be prepared to be disappointed! That’s part of the deal. It’s like working out – no pain, no gain.
Your leaders are fair game. Once you’ve decided where your line in the sand is, take a look at the connections between their statements and deeds.
It would be lovely if life were all black and white, good and evil, night and day. Alas, we live many hours in twilight, shades of gray, degrees of goodness. Balance is the thing.
I’ve always said that Reagan soothed many of my generation to sleep and to dream. The chronic insomniacs among us have been sounding the alarm for 25 years. Some are wide awake now, some just having that first cup of coffee. Some are still sleeping and some are deep in the REM state. It will always be so.
George Bush talked a good line in 2000. Compassionate conservatism is a great slogan, and could be a good idea if fleshed out with actual commitments to programs and policy. A humble foreign policy sounds great, implying that we will not fulfill the world’s fears of our military might and their suspicions that we dream of a new Roman Empire. And the idea that our president would unite us - healing the partisan wounds inflicted on the republic and culminating in the impeachment of a sitting president for a petty and commonplace lie about a sexual indiscretion – that was a great notion. Has opportunity widened? Are we less divided? Have we improved the world through diplomacy? You decide.
Now I know we’ll come back to John Kerry’s candidacy and we will once again be told that he is no different than Bush, and that he is just as insincere in his promises. There is, of course, some truth in that. Both parties have strived to distinguish themselves in many areas, and to align themselves closely in others in an attempt to attract those undecided voters. While Kerry’s rhetoric has crept steadily to the right, Bush has moved closer to the center over many months of this campaign. If you want to understand what Kerry represents, start with his web site and read what he plans to propose to the people and their representatives. Do the same with Bush. But then you have to dig a little deeper. If you’re persuaded by the Swift Boat ads, for example, then you owe it to yourself to read about the long history of these attacks on Kerry’s military record, read the original documents relating to his service, and then read his entire 1971 statement to the Senate. That will be a good start. In regard to his vote for the authority to use military force in Iraq, read his speech in the Senate when he cast his vote in favor. There are several web sites that discuss his record and accomplishments in the Senate, notably his investigation of BCCI in the late 80’s and early 90’s.
If you are leaning toward Bush, then I recommend you do some reading about his stewardship of Texas as governor, and the aftermath. The effects of policy decision often do not become clear for some time, so it is important to look at the state of Texas and how they’re doing on education, health care, fiscal outcomes, etc. I would also look carefully at the records of those whom Bush has chosen to place in key positions. I personally find it fascinating that he has over 100 convicted felons employed in his administration – men who would be denied the right to vote if they resided in Florida when they committed their crimes. Unless, that is, his brother Jeb elected to give them clemency. Such rich irony!
It is difficult to imagine an American administration more corrupt and morally bankrupt than the one we have now, unless it is the extension of the present regime. I am not going to argue that the left is less hypocritical. I will argue that the hypocrisy of our politicians is an accurate reflection of that of the population at large. However, I know that we are not yet ourselves a nation of criminals who believe that might makes right, that the ‘culture of life’ that Bush talks about does not include those already born, or that corporations should be granted the same rights as individuals with none of the accountability that accompanies those rights. I don’t believe that most Americans support a foreign policy based on the premise that if you’re not with me, you’re against me.
Sorry this post is so long, but there is much that we need to discuss. This seems as good a place as any.
Bernie, great stuff as usual. Your line about donating whatever you’re smoking to a hospice made me laugh three times – that’s how many times I went back to read it. And thanks for mentioning waiting on tables. That’s how I put myself through college in the 70’s without taking on loans. I was good…very good.
And finally, to my new best friend, Lyle. You are one of the most generous souls I’ve had the pleasure to come in contact with in a long time. Figure out a way for you and me and Bernie and a few other invitees like Fat Tony to continue this somewhere online, will you? I was thinking I could set up a spare mailbox with a spam filter to keep out the unserious from both sides – sorry folks, but we just don’t have time for that. No matter which way this election goes, we’re all in for some hard work to pull this country out of the ditch. Right now I fear we’re not only blocking traffic, but we’re distracting the rest of the world from dealing with a lot of nasty stuff that’s cruising past us while we argue about how many medals John Kerry did or did not throw over the fence when he as in his 20’s.
Thanks again, to everybody for participating!
BTW – whatever happened to G van den Bosch? Back in his comfy blog no doubt. Oh well.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:28 PM All liberals have is the Ad-hominem attack. How sad. What a long whiney rant!
Posted by McFarlin on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:35 PM Not only is Garrison on-the-money, behind his fiery rhetoric is a clear call to action: Get out the vote! It’s not enough to drag yourself to the polling place this November. Like never before, we must volunteer with groups like MoveOnPAC.org ( http://moveonpac.org/ )in the weeks leading up to the election to ensure that people in our communities get to the polls on voting day. Now that’s patriotic!
Posted by Hayduke Mackay on Sep 1, 2004 at 5:39 PM Sexta, Sexta, read all about it.
I do not aeschew hatred. Try your bushit with someone else.
Yes there can be two different points of view that are both right. The key word there is CAN.
Unlike many people I do know that there are not always two rights.You must read better dude, I did serve in the US ARMY, I was drafted and I went and did my duty. It was your buddy TRUTH who wiggled out. I hope they draft your butt or your offspring and then we’ll see what tune you are playing then. That is unless you have a rich daddy like mr. bush.
Posted by JIMBOY on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:01 PM Yes, when will the masses of Americans who have voluntarily disenfranchised themselves wake up and realize that their cushy way of life is being dismantled bit by bit? Hopefully not sometime next year, when they may then wish they had voted Democratic.
Posted by patricia shanks on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:11 PM hmmm… how will this be interpreted? Oh well… Ok, I’m no big fan of folks who say God is telling them how to run the country (but I’ll admit that even that might have been misinterpreted since admiting that there’s a “Higher Power” of some kind was part of GW’s A.A. agreement), and I’m no big fan of folks who continue to go a certain way on contraception and abortion because of a three thousand year old order to be fruitful and multiply that was fine advice in the less resource-strapped day of it’s proclamation… but (here is comes) I am human and I live in the real world using real world day to day technologies, and as such I would have been far quieter after the invasion/liberation if our gas prices had dropped to 10 cents a gallon.
War is usually done over purely human “we need what they have” reasons, bad and absolutely terrible as war always is at the unit level the big picture of the victor being happy (or less vocally unhappy) if they get the spoils will always be the same.
It was at least part an issue of oil, that was the tiny unnamed glimmer that made the move away from Afganastan and to Iraq a bit more easy to swallow, even though none of us would admit it publicly. If Clinton was “Wag the Dog” then Bush was “3 Days of the Condor” being lived out right before our eyes. What can you do, the line was right “When they’re cold they won’t care how, they will just want us to get it”
I don’t want my family to be blown up on in an American supermarket, so active engagement, like the move into Iraq has a small bit of guilty hope to it. I know the devils of Bush and there are many, including the weakness factor based on what I perceive as an inability to bring home the cheap gas and heating oil. I wonder at this point if he’s learned from that error and won’t let it happen again and I worry if Kerry really has what it takes to make the hard and unpopular decisions to at least try to get the spoils of war if the need for them, whatever they are, becomes absolute.
War is part of reality. Reasons and tactics are arguable after the dust settles, but only if your personal civilization was the winner.
Makes me seem like a terrible person. Maybe I am. But I want my kids to outlive me in a world where they can do so without having to revert to horse and buggy out of necessity or have a Taliban official watching over them ready to hit them for thinking that the Earth does not sit on a giant Turtle’s back (you get the idea). And if that takes keeping a semi-christian-type in office just till the need for their fanaticism is over, maybe that’s an option to consider.
I bow out now to read the flames that will probably arise.
;-)
Posted by robert smith on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:16 PM A pathetic ad-hominem attack against people who did nothing more than disagree with the author’s positions. How dare they hold an opinion contrary to that of Garrison Keillor.
This had about as much truth and honesty to it as does a Rush Limbaugh factoid.
Posted by Subjugator on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:16 PM Joanne, Your writing is imbued with a system of premises quite apart from my own. For you to objectively embrace for the sake of discussion my premises would call into question your worldview, the whole herd and not just a few culls. You’re not ready. Your progressive sacred cows feed and entertain you. Were I to gut them with substantive economics and political theory you would turn ugly again because progressivism really is sacred to you. You believe in the metaphysics of it.
In my day they didn’t teach reverence for other people’s taboos. But you get old and you learn to recognize when someone can learn, apart from the question of whether they might choose to. In my brief stay here you and the majority voices on this board haven’t shown me a capacity to move beyond vigorous defense of prejudice. Y’all have far too much respect for your taboos around here.
Now, I know you won’t find anything in this post to sink your teeth into. But you should, and here’s a clue, it ain’t me.
Posted by Brooks on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:21 PM Brooks - excellent point. Progressivism for the sake of progressivism is like making Ivory Soap sink because you’re tired of it floating.
Posted by Seven Truths on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:43 PM Brooks babe, it definitely isn’t you.
Amen brother.
You are guilty of exactly what you charge others are guilty of.
Maybe you should re-think your positions. Humm????
Are you saying substantive economics and political theory is in anyway an answer to what is being done to our country via mr. bush?
Posted by JIMBOY on Sep 1, 2004 at 6:51 PM Margo—I was intrigued by your comment about moving to New Zealand, because I have had the same thought. It seems like a beautiful place (having seen it in the Lord of the Rings movies). I have thought that if the blessed American voters truly want another four years of W, then I would like to move to the Southern Hemisphere and out of the fallout pattern. Then the Christian fundamentalist theocrats can battle it out with the Islamic fundamentalist theocrats, and the devil take the lot of them. The only trouble is, I doubt that N.Z. would be willing to take a bunch of grouchy political expatriates.
Posted by John Harbeck on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:02 PM Why do I feel like I’m looking at Rome in the time of Julius Caesar?
Seems to me that Bush crossed the Rubicon in 2000, with the help of the Supreme Court. And like the Romans, we stood there and let him get away with it. I pray that good sense will prevail in November.
Posted by Erin on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:04 PM Mr. Smith, you make some interesting points. I was not aware that GW was a member of AA, and in fact I think you may be mistaken about that. My understanding is that he joined a prayer group, which is not quite the same thing. I doubt he’s been through the twelve steps.
Very honest of you, almost alone among Bush supporters, to admit that it was “probably” about oil and that you’d have been happier if gas prices had gone down.
It may surprise some of the posters here to hear that we share a concern with security. None of us want to see a repeat of 9/11 or anything remotely like it. Nor do we want a repeat of the domestic terrorist bombing in OK City. The issue between us is what measures should be taken to reduce risk. I think most of the liberal/progressive posters would say that we can do an acceptable job of securing our borders, ports, airlines, chemical plants, nuclear facilities, etc. without rolling back our civil rights. We would also propose that America does not invade another country in order to sieze their resources, if that is what you are suggesting has been done in Iraq. I thought the free marketers had confidence in our ability to buy whatever we need in global markets without resorting to the disruption and displacements caused by armed conflicts. Wasn’t this supposed to be the promise of the global economy?
War seems to be inevitable…so that means we should not continue to employ every means at hand to avoid it? I’m not sure what you’re saying here.
As to the comments of Subjugator, McFarlin, and Brooks - I haven’t seen so much Latin thrown around since they dropped it in the Catholic mass. I hope you guys are as lazy about voting as you are about communicating. No less a celebrity than George W. Bush has admitted he doesn’t read the papers but relies on others to sum up the pertinent information for him. I guess if it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for you.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:05 PM Seven Truths—
Huh?
Is that like saying that “Republicanism for the sake of Republicanism is like telling us that your shit really does smell good (as the speakers at your convention have been trying to do) because you know that all of us (including some of your own members) are tired of the stink”?
I know that there are probably still some die-hard (and even well-meaning) generational Republicans who keep looking for the pony in the steaming piles that you’re laying on them. Unlike your current Republiban leaders, we’re not practicing the ole “bait and switch”—we’re just saying “read your Republiban Party platform.” It’s not a pony ride—it’s a mushroom farm. And, by now, you Republibans certainly know how to grow good mushrooms among the overly fearful electorate—you feed them lots of sweet-smelling shit and you keep them in the dark.
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:12 PM Its really very, simple. Kerry and Bush will kill, maim and destroy for the extreme capitalists who control them. Each will do this in his own party’s style. There are no real “bones” of consequence to throw any “regular folks” nor to buy-off our enemies around the world because the country is broke. We have no real influence anymore –except militarily– and its obvious that won’t work either.
So lament, write, protest, or scream at Nader supporters for not joining your losing propositon of more killing, maiming, destruction and the looting of others treasures. There will be no returning to the old days of either party. Its over. Its a fatalistic attitude, just a realistic one.
As for those who are leaving for other lands, good for you. Its no different than moving-out of a bad neighborhood, city or state. No differerent at all. (I’m doing the same) There is little to stay for and certainly less to fight for. “Coward(s)”? Hardly. Just looking for a better place to live…outta the fray. Its a big planet with lots of room.
Let “them” have it.
Posted by Michael Arnold on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:13 PM ...make that “It’s NOT a fatalistic attitude” (sorry for the typo!)
Posted by Michael Arnold on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:22 PM Joanne, Thank you. I’d heard on the street that A.A. was involved and that was part of the faith-based background. Thanks for clearing it up ... and making it even scarier. There’s still time though, maybe his youngun’ will help the faith-based aspect of the campaign by doing N.A. and cutting public service spots telling how much it helped them ;-)
Fact of the matter is, I’m really not a Bush supporter. He is brainless in certain things that are very important to me, like the ramifications of outsourcing software technology which, in the case of financial and medical software development is perfect “terrorist disruption ammmunition” ... and it’s frustrating that he and his will never understand that software and shoes are not the same thing, since he admits that he still has some trouble operating a cellphone.
But I guess there are a lot of people who don’t quite understand what computer software really is, so what can you do but hope for the best. I liked Kerry’s play on it… make it more costly to outsource, other countries do that with their industries. What the heck.
BUT I’m not a flag waving Kerry supporter either. I think he’s coming across soft and whiney. I don’t think that America should have to wait for the EU to give us approval for our national interests. And if I lived in Canada or Belgium or anywhere else I would feel exactly the same way about My Country.
I’m the dreaded person on the fence. I don’t have faith in the absolute of either party and I’m trying to figure out which of them has the potential to do more (and less) damage.
Forums like this, even if they end up way way way off of the original target are my place to see what’s what.
I’d like to pick parts from both and assemble a candidate that maybe I can trust at least a little bit. But since GW’s the current guy and he has a thing against bio-science I guess that’ll have to wait ... until he needs a couple of kidneys and he can only get them grown for him in Britain :)
Posted by robert smith on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:53 PM Thank you Garrison Keillor. May your words reach the ears of many and your message strike a chord with all.
Posted by Tom on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:54 PM “Entertainers should keep their views to themselves.” That is, unless they are Sen. George Murphy, John Wayne, Fred Grandy, and Arnold Schwarzenegger. And more recently, that large-hearted fellow who helped lower salaries on Broadway so only the well-to-do can afford to work there—Ron Silver. Silver’s familiar excuse—investment stimulus.
Posted by babs on Sep 1, 2004 at 7:56 PM Another big mistake the progressives inherited from their twin gods of Marx and Keynes is the tendency to view everything through the lens of economics. Of all the vast panoply of human motivations, the only one that matters to the good leftist is economics. They shoehorn every effect in the world into an economic cause. Panaceas are real handy that way.
Of course you’ve also got the “purpose of history” weighing like a boat anchor around the left’s necks. This little gem of progressive enlightenment has caused no end of mischief in the world though it has every bit as much support in reality as Arafat’s 72 virgins patiently awaiting his long overdue martyrdom. It’s pretty easy to tell people where they went wrong when you already know where they ought to be eh. Foresight is 20/20 for the good leftist. The right will only go that far in hindsight.
And what a poor lot of victims we have here. Victims of Bush, of the Supreme Court, of big polluting corporations, victims of a stingy welfare state, of war mongering politicians, poor, poor, pitiful victims on the left. And on the right, blithely stupid dolts who won’t see any of it, dolts who only want the planet and everyone on it to die for their bottom line. Yep. You guys have it all figured out all right.
Posted by Brooks on Sep 1, 2004 at 8:08 PM Thank you for speaking out - in your own inimitable, humorous way. And thanks for the Dante reference. I admit to a certain shyness in expressing my views - and, yes, a fear of being accosted by some radical. No more.
This election is all you so well said. Since the July convention, I have been wearing a Kerry/Edwards button everywhere I go - just a button on my shirt or clasped on my purse. I am amazed at how many strangers (and regulars such as clerks in stores, doctors, postmen) have said how much they like my decoration!
I also put a similar sticker on my car. Nothing offensive - just an indication of my position.
Posted by Zosia on Sep 1, 2004 at 8:22 PM I LOVE YOU, Garrison! Be you scathingly serious or phenomenally facetious, you are always THE GREATEST! (Love those Republican sketches you do on radio!)
I keep telling myself that Good and Right have got to prevail because God will not have it any other way; yet in these times it all seems so very hopeless. It is totally scary the way the right-wingers have appropriated the talk-radio medium unto themselves. One can scarcely find a sane voice in that genre anymore - you and PBS being the rare exception.
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT; WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE THIS ONE!
May God bless and keep you!
NOTE FOR GARY M. COLE OF SEATTLE:
Your posting is a precise expression of my sentiments! God bless!
Posted by E. C. Roy on Sep 1, 2004 at 8:27 PM this is not true at all
though i respect your language it seems as if you are not reaserched. the moderate in the GOP is not gone, just last night at the RNC the party had the gov-a-nator speak, a very pro-choice moderate, to this great party. before that we had the formar mayor of new york and john mccain all moderates in this party. it is the left wing who does not except the moderates and that only alows a pro life speaker to speak at the rebublican nation convention. i beleve that the party of linclon should be proud that they can dissagre on some issues but still remain in the tent of the rebublican party.
this is not the party of the swamp developers but of the hard working people in america who have a voice for something not hypocritical like saying they want peace and then provoking people to anger just to make themselves feel suprime. but insted they cry for justice and freedom in the nations as well as america. they understand that violance is the last result and after 10 years of refusal to allow diplomatic measures to take place it is time for action not indecisiveness. i thank you for your opinion but i do dissagree with it it is the same regergatated argument that we hate bush and all we can do to stop it is put ANYONE ELSE in his place… wow way to be decisive.
thank you for the fourm
Posted by Ryan Davis on Sep 1, 2004 at 8:54 PM Finding a huge list of messages to wade through, I have just ‘stepped away’ from the list. As I go, a few things seem to be obvious.
The Democratic Party is too political. I didn’t get to vote for McGovern, I didn’t get to vote for Bradley, I didn’t get to vote for Kucinich. Instead, I am left to vote against. Vote against Bush… vote against another Bush.
The Republican Party is full of pricks. I have definite Republican tendencies… really I do… but the people who end up being nominated are just not acceptable. I didn’t get to vote for McCain. Sigh.
It is obvious that this Party thing isn’t working. On the other hand, I doubt if we could get everyone to boycott the parties. (Wouldn’t that be something?) The only thing left is a grassroots mobilization that povides the “non-Party” alternative (maybe that’s what the Reform Party was for?).
I’m not pomising anything, but if you want to token a bit of support for an alternative, feel free to send contact infomation to mailto:info@www.dubya.info. Nominations for Local, State and Federal representatives of the “non-Party” are also welcome. If it looks like this sort of thing might be popular, I might be pursuaded to turn it into a serious thing.
Kurt
Posted by Kurt Christensen on Sep 1, 2004 at 9:10 PM ... oh! ... and my write-in vote for John Haglin got screwed up by a faulty voting booth… in Virginia, no less.
Posted by Kurt Christensen on Sep 1, 2004 at 9:17 PM As Canadian, it is difficult to understand why the good and fine people of the United States haven’t “Stormed the Bastille”.
Garrison Keillor’s article is a clarion call for all to take charge and make the changes the rest of the world will understand and respect.
Posted by James Canada on Sep 1, 2004 at 9:23 PM Brooks, I am no more wedded to my world view than you and at least I can express it clearly and in personal terms. I am also able to ask a question and listen to an answer, as well as pose my own just so I can stroke my ego by providing a clever answer. Row, row, row your boat.
If you’re looking for a victim mentality, read all the whining about Christians being persucuted by the left, or robbed by taxes. Utter unadulterated nonsense. I’ve said it several times and I’ll say it again, there’s plenty of (insert insulting accusation here) on all sides on this board. Why not just accept it and try to make your point if you have one?
Robert, you are a peach. There are millions of people who’d like to pick and choose and assemble a dream candidate. Alas, we only have these limited choices. Such is life.
I join Bernie Ellis in asking you to read the party platforms, but also to consider some other information that is widely available. You can skip the TV commercials and locate primary documentary evidence on the records, accomplishments, successes and failures of both candidates. I am confident that when you have spent, oh, maybe 20 or 30 hours reading and absorbing this you will be able to make a choice you can live with. Hopefully it will be a choice we can all live with. You sound like a decent, good-hearted person and I have confidence that you’ll make the effort, knowing what is at stake in this election.
As to the rest of you Nattering Nabobs of Negativity (if you were an adult when that term was coined, you’ll get the irony)...damn. I’m strugging here with politeness. On the one hand I want to do a Cheney on you. On the other hand I want to extend my hand to you and invite you to join the vox populi. And that’s all the Latin you’ll hear from me.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 1, 2004 at 9:24 PM When asked, longtime Republican CNN conservative commentator and writer Tucker Carlson has implied he will not vote for the re-election of George Bush II. Like many others in politics-related careers, he simply says, “The war was a major mistake.” Let’s speak the whole truth FOR him—trusting yet another Bush with our domestic and international well-being was a mistake.
Listening to CNN’s biography of Vice President Cheney, I was startled to realize that the only one of our top two leaders and their wives who hasn’t been in trouble with the law or investigated by the police is Lynn Cheney. Vice President Cheney was twice charged with drunk driving and later with other offenses CNN did not specify. The GOP has a history of choosing grateful men with poor records as their puppets.
Cheney too was eventally a ‘C’ student who, out of his depth, left Yale, though Lynn’s conservative father was pickng up the tab. He’d been aimless and trouble-prone even after he’d met his main chance, the well-connected Lynn who had a yen for the vapid high school football player.
So when Keillor calls these folks miscreants, it’s not rhetoric. Chilling, huh?
Posted by barbara on Sep 1, 2004 at 9:59 PM Spreading capitalisim to Iraq is a big part of how the RNC attempted to get the oil…the war has been a huge mistake for our country. The RNC website even stated we need to keep the emphasis on Bus and the war to win!
Posted by Tom Paulson on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:03 PM Even if Bush loses the election, this country will still be teetering on the edge of the abyss. There’ll still still be a media that leans to the right, GOP in control of both houses, and we’ll still be in Iraq. There will still be no reform of the campaign laws. There is so much that needs to be done.
Posted by Tighlander on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:12 PM As always with Keillor, I just love to hear him talk. Too bad he didn’t take the opportunity to be somewhat balanced, and to refuse the cheap tricks—like twice implying that the security shortcomings which led to 9-11 can all be laid at the door of George Bush. When someone tries to sell me that particular barrel of hogwash, I’m immediately suspicious and I start to tune them out, because they must think I’m a dummy. 9-11 was in the planning for years, throughout the Clinton administration, and the only reason Mr. Clinton doesn’t ever get any blame is because al-Qaeda’s test run—the earlier WTC bombing—didn’t kill many people. Give me a break.
Intelligent people who truly are undecided want to hear reasoned, thoughtful commentary—Nicholas Kristof comes to mind. Rantings and ravings, whether they’re written beautifully by Keillor or mangled by some caller to Rush Limbaugh, are only beneficial to those who’ve already made up their minds and for some reason want to be whipped into a frenzy.
There are plenty of things I don’t like about this administration. But when I listen to supposedly intelligent people who can’t find even one thing it’s done right, when I look at little mini-terrorist protestors disrupting New York City and a convention which has every right to attend to its business, just as the Democratic one did, because they think their opinion is so important that they’re justified in breaking the law, damaging private property, assaulting policemen and inconveniencing thousands of lives, I find I’m not too keen on supporting a party that seems to operate on emotion and little else.
Kerry supporters would make a lot more headway with me if they had more specifics to back up their sweeping accusations, and if they didn’t come off as rage-crazed loonies.
Posted by Peggy on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:24 PM Look, I cringe just as much as the next guy when Bush opens his mouth to speak. As a good republican, you think I’m looking forward to Thursday night? Hell no. The convention should have shut down after Guilliani’s speech. Rudy echoed the only ideas really worth a public forum this summer. He addressed whether western civ moves forward or backward from this point in time. Everything else is gingerbread, background noise, the stuff that clerks can work out.
As I see it, motivations matter more than anything else because we, all of us, are self-determined. We’re not genetically determined, not economically determined, nor socially determined. Our choices determine us. Period.
So it greatly matters when people are motivated over fatuous cause & effect, over mistaken processes, over impossibilities, imponderables and over unreasonable expectations. Enter left v. right politics and our modern bastard democracy, spawn of an 18th century republic and a 20th century progressive state. Under these conditions, many in our country have lost their feedback loops; have become detached from the consequences they initiate. This is an extremely dangerous condition for them and for all the third parties randomly affected by these disconnected actors.
Keillor’s piece that began this thread is a beautiful work of fiction like much of his work. It’s also a rant and it’s emotive and it’s clever. But could one take a sentence or a paragraph out of it and say of it, here is something I can work with. Here is something I can apply to solve a problem. I don’t think so. It feels good to read it. It psychically rewards with plenty of emotion and artful construction. But where’s the payoff? After all, it’s not offered as fiction or as a dalliance for entertainment. He’s gone political, and in my view, that entails a duty to actually contribute something tangible, something more than just blowing off steam. That’s a standard that must survive testing. Mindless repetition of progressive mantras isn’t persuasive.
Look at the monstrous government social institutions we built in this country over the last century. Have they paid off? Have they solved the problems they were intended to solve. Not a one can make that claim. The progressives will tell you, oh we just haven’t got it right yet but we’re working on it, have a little patience. My patience has run out. Did you know that since the FDA was initiated back in the first 100 days of the New Deal it has grown to regulate fully 25% of the country’s gross national product? There’s an elephant in the living room that no one talks about. The house is full of them.
We’re under a day-to-day siege by progressive dinosaurs sucking the life out of our country and civilization, and the people who are the angriest, the foot soldiers who take to the streets, don’t even know who the real enemy is.
Posted by Brooks on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:27 PM Peggy—Tell those three FBI agents who were told their information on the terrorist plot (Arab pilots not learning how to land, etc.) was ignored at the top. And similar CIA agents and Richard Clarke whose warnings went unheeded.
I’m not convinced the President’s hesitancy on hearing of the attack was all that meaningful (He’s a slow guy), but that facial expression—shocked at the scale of the attack but not totally surprised?
You hate that people imply the President did NOTHING good? With a misbegotten and self-serving 300 billion dollar (and more to come) war. the inciting of millions of Muslims, the resulting loss of respect throughout the world, the misleading of Americans about drug legislation, tax cuts for the wealthy, and numerous bogus domestic programs, we are a bit distracted from those really neat things he did. Please remind us.
Posted by barbara on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:46 PM You bleeding-heart liberals will once again hemorrhage to death this coming election.
Posted by Michael Lindley on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:47 PM As an almost-80-year-old with a passel of children, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, I realize this is the most important election ever.
I truly don’t think this country can survive another four years of this administration. Vote,. vote, vote!!
Posted by M. Daley on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:48 PM I think GK’s passionate article has inspired a lot of passion in this thread. While I agree that our current “cabal” of “leaders” are morally bankrupt, I wouldn’t pass this piece on to voters on the fence. Demonizing the “leaders” (elected or unelected) of the republican voters may make them only cling that much more to the propaganda espoused by that party.
I cannot hate the family and friends of mine who believe in voting for Bush even if I feel they have been duped and are misguided.
Ever since I have been eligible to vote I have always felt it was only a choice between the lesser of two evils. But I keep voting so I must have a glimmer of hope despite the seeming worthlessness of it.
After I read “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee”, by Dee Brown, many years ago, I could not see the American government as beacon of liberty ever again. The secrecy of our military powers that be are beholden to no one but itself and its own perpetuation. Naked powermongering and lying, corrupt “leaders” owned by corporate greed and twisted ideology are the enemies of hope for our future.
I like to recommend a book “Ain’t Nobody’s Business If You Do, The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Society” by Peter McWilliams (published by Prelude Press 1993) for free thinkers. I am disgusted at the state of our incarceration system, and I think incarcerating non-violent offenders is itself criminal.
“Freedom” is relative and I can recognize that the “freedom” to engage in political discourse and debate, as in this thread, is sadly not possible for many “citizens” of repressed states. That does not make us more “free” though if our own potential is confined by comparisons to countries less “free”. We dream higher or we would possess no passion for the future of this nation.
I found the list of tell-tale signs of Fascism scarily too descriptive of our own present era of government, just as I found “1984” scarily relevant when I first read it in 1983 and again in 1993.
Maybe persons and entities who occupy positions of public trust who lie and cheat will reap the rewards of the seeds that they have sown, it is just sad that innocents will also be affected by these breaches of trust.
Posted by daydreamer on Sep 1, 2004 at 10:52 PM The thing hard Republicans forget, not the moderates (which I used to be), is that our choices in life make a difference in our outcomes, but so does luck. Luck determines whether we get to jump over 500 other guys to avoid Vietnam, whether we get our asses bailed out when our oil companies fail one after another, whether our dad’s SEC decides we meant no harm when we unloaded our oil stock while we were on the board and knew it was about to drop, luck decides whether we get all kinds of breaks and do-overs and free passes in life, or whether we get nailed the first time we get pissed off for being pulled over DWB. No Black American should ever be angry or impolite. It’s too dangerous. Do any of the Republicans writing in here know how grindingly difficult it is to commute between two or three jobs and still be below the poverty line—-and still pay a higher percentage in taxes than many of the lucky successful people whose President pretends to be compassionate?
Posted by pasquino on Sep 1, 2004 at 11:11 PM I LOVE YOU, Garrison! Be you scathingly serious or phenomenally facetious, you are always THE GREATEST! (Love those Republican sketches you do on radio!)
I keep telling myself that Right and Good have got to prevail because God will not have it any other way; yet, in these times, it all seems so very hopeless. It is totally scary the way the right-wingers have appropriated the talk-radio medium unto themselves. One can scarcely find a sane voice in that genre anymore - you and PBS being the rare exceptions.
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT; WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE THIS ONE!
May God bless and keep you!
**************************************************
FOR GARY M. COLE IN SEATTLE:I agree wholeheartedly with your very astute comments. God bless!
Posted by E. C. Roy on Sep 1, 2004 at 11:18 PM To read such eloquence makes me weep with anger and despair for the future of this country if Bush remains the puppet at the helm.
If he gets re-elected, I’m making my visit to Australia permanent.
Posted by E. B. Davis on Sep 1, 2004 at 11:33 PM Garrison:
I am a teacher of writing who routinely assigns an essay in which apprentice writers are to vent. They are permitted any language they are comfortable with. They understand that the writing is purgative or cathartic.
I will use your piece as a shining example of the power of language to capture the power of rage. Thank you for writing this.
Posted by George T. Karnezis on Sep 1, 2004 at 11:40 PM Nothing infuriates me more than when the Republican party claims Lincoln as their own. Lincoln’s conservatism referred to staying true to the vision of the founding fathers. He remains the greatest American president for one reason: Every political thought he had was rooted in the Declaration of Independence.
Today’s conservatives want to return to the Gilded Age, when the Robber Barons ruled the country. They’ll tell you that “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness” is not in the Constitution.
Posted by Brian Nelson on Sep 2, 2004 at 12:04 AM Yes, indeed, it is very strange times that we live in. I can remember my mother having me dressed up for Goldwater in the late 1950’s. Now she wishes she was in NYC marching in her electric wheelchair protesting the GOP. I like what one commentator stated on Bill Moyer’s TV show, “extra-chromosome Republicans”. Has our country gone mad? I think Europe thinks so . . . so do I.
However, I don’t think that 9/11 would have happened if Clinton hadn’t cut back the military and the CIA, etc. I guess we will be a third-world nation in 10 years.
Posted by Rev. Tennie Komar on Sep 2, 2004 at 12:11 AM I can remember marching with my mother as a child for Goldwater in the 1950’s. Now she wishes that she was in NYC protesting the GOP in her electric wheelchair.
It is a sad state of affairs to plot to reduce America to a third world nation within 10 years. Perhaps this is the plan. Nothing makes people more mindless that “preachin’” and waiting for evil around every corner. A commentator on Bill Moyer’s show called the Bush fanatics, “extra-chromosome” Republicans.
However, I don’t think 9/11 would have happened if Clinton didn’t cut back on the military and the CIA.
Check out “BettyBowers.com” “Repent and Reload”! Hallaluya!
Posted by Rev. Tennie Komar on Sep 2, 2004 at 12:24 AM I’ve never before been so moved by anyone’s pronunciation of the faith I have held since the 2000 election. I have nightmares of what will occur during a second unchallenged term. true Christians who are the peacemakers should be on their knees praying for his return to Crawford.
Posted by Don Cherry on Sep 2, 2004 at 1:19 AM This is a wonderful, enlightening article, followed by all these great comments. I am a senior citizen, and I find all the TV pictures of the Republican convention very frightening. All that money and power! Scarey! What will become of our country. I would like to add that I would be much more favorably impressed by the “darling” Bush twins if they would join the Army, or at least the Natonal Guard!
Posted by Frances on Sep 2, 2004 at 1:20 AM Barbara,
In answer to your observations—3 things:
#1 (about the information FBI agents tried to pass on) no doubt—intelligence got ignored, things got missed, mistakes were made. We could go back and forth for YEARS with all the the errors that were made in that arena under both Republican and Democratic administrations. Many of those individual errors that occur have everything to do with bureaucracy, communication, jealousies over turf, etc., and nothing to do with an agenda or a pattern by presidents. Shall we blame this all on Clinton for not nabbing Osama when he had the chance? We could, but I guess he did what he thought was best at the time, under the circumstances and with the knowledge he had. Bush-haters seem willing to extend that kind of latitude to everyone but him.
Don’t forget that while 9-11 got everyone’s attention, Islamism began its battle with us at least as far back as 1979 with the takeover of our embassy in Iran, under a Democratic president. To try to blame Bush for the antagonism of Muslim fundamentalists is absurd. Could he have employed a bit more delicacy and diplomacy? Certainly. Is he to blame for it? Of course not. Anyone who knows their history knows that’s ridiculous. That was #2.
And #3, if we’re going to try to determine motive, prior knowledge, and character from a facial expression on TV that we think our insight qualifies us to interpret, we’re sillier than I thought.
Posted by Peggy on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:01 AM To all:
As I listen to a truly confused politician in the background (Zell Miller), I thought I’d respond to some of the issues raised in the past few hours on this thread. It is interesting that we keep getting the “grunt and groan” comments about no substantitive discussion of the issues on this thread. All I can say is: we can bring you to a very meaty discussion—which this thread is—but we can’t make you read it (or think about it).
So, to quote one of their neo-con-derthal heros, Bill O’Really, “shut up and read before you whine.”I have suggested several times that folks
(regardless of political persuasion) actually look at the party platforms. To make it easier, I am attaching four links: (Link 1) the GOP platform, (Link 2) a New York Times article discussing the GOP platform, (Link 3) The Democratic platform and (Link 4) A New York Times article on the Democratic platform. The reading and review—and the comparisons that you can make with your own bedrock beliefs (some of which even smart alecky liberals (me) and neo-con-derthals (Fat Tony) agree on—like peace, liberty and justice for all) is yours to perform.http://www.gop.com/About/PartyPlatform/Default.aspx
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/31/politics/campaign/31platform.html?pagewante ed=1
http://www.dems2004.org/site/pp.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=97933
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/26/politics/campaign/26campaign.html?ex=109418 84000&en=a4e992a70ceb106d&ei=5070&hp;
Now to address Brook’s much earlier comment and his challenge to name any government “social” programs that have been worthwhile over the past century. The following list is just a minute’s worth of reflection on that question. My belief is that all of these programs have made meaningful contributions to our individual and collective well-being and to the fulfillment of the American Ideal. So, in no particular order, here are my nominations for worthwhile government programs, most (but not all) of which have functioned during my lifetime:Civilian Conservation Corps, Works Progress Administration, Tennessee Valley Authority, GI Bill, interstate highway system, Federal Aviation Administration, Peace Corps, Vista, Job Corps, federally guaranteed student loans, WIC (women, infants and children supplemental food program), Food Stamps, TASC (Treatment Alternatives to Street Crime), COPS (Community-Oriented Policing Program), drug and mental health courts, Centers for Disease Control, National Institutes of Health, Institute of Medicine, Head Start, Small Business Administration, Medicare, Medicaid, Environmental Protection Administration, Food and Drug Administration, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, Title 10, Office of Civil Rights of the USDOJ. I could go on and on, but that’s enough for now.
All of these programs have been worthwhile and I am happy that my tax dollars (and my father’s and grandfather’s) have been used to fund them. These programs were not the exclusive products of the Democratic Party, but they were all the products of a philosophy that our federal government exists to help us address collective problems that either we as individuals or our free market economic system cannot address successfully.
By the way, Peggy, none of these programs were started by GW Bush, but many have lost support and/or have been sabotaged by his policies. I believe that this fact is not accidental but is based on his bed-rock beliefs that government is not a “good thing”, that it restricts or impedes our fundamental freedoms to act on and satisfy our
own selfish interests, regardless of the impact on others. And please don’t tell me “No Child Left Behind” is a worthy contribution, since I have a sister, sister-in-law and niece who are starting into another school year having to purchase the basic supplies (including paper and pencil, chalk and erasers) to run their classes out of their own meager salaries. How about a “No Teacher Left to Her Own Devices” program?Like many former Republicans (and Democrats), I don’t favor growing government for government’s sake. I am strongly in favor of taxing equitably and spending responsibly—and that political philosophy can raise all boats and effectively address our common problems, while simultaneously reducing the most useless and non-productive expense of our government—paying interest on the national debt. Instead of paying as we go and making prudent and consensual decisions about how we use our tax resources, we have seen what four years of the alternative philosophy has brought us—the “borrow and steal” philosophy which debases the bedrock principles of most lifelong fiscally conservative Republicans I know.
One uncle of mine who fits that description—having never voted for a Democrat in his life—is voting for John Kerry because his view of GW’s record is that he could not successfully manage a hot dog stand, much less a country. And he has bothered to study Kerry’s record enough to know that Kerry has supported fiscal restraint and a balanced budget during his two decade career, sometimes at odds with his Democratic colleagues.
I’ll end on one point. I keep hearing the Republicans complaining about Kerry not running on his record in the Senate. If I were a Bush supporter, I would not want to remind the public that it was John Kerry who brought forth and led the Senate investigations into some of the seamier elements of the Iran-Contra scandal, particularly the wholesale importation of cocaine into our country with the direct support of elements of our military and intelligence assets in order to fund an illegal and deadly war in Central America (and to arm Iran). We still pay the costs of that scandal, in the lives ruined both in the inner cities and the suburbs by an insatiable and unending appetite for cocaine that this President knows about all too well. So in terms of reviewing Kerry’s record, I say “bring it on”. It’s time to remind America who is really to blame for many of the social ills related to serious drug abuse in this country (and it’s not sick people with benign but “illegal smiles” and their cannabis-growing caregivers.)
Joanne, let me know when you’re firing up your firepit and I’ll bring some good hickory wood, fresh tomatoes and pork shoulders for the pit. I would really enjoy having a picnic to honor Garrison and to continue this often civil (though sometimes heated) debate about the present and the future of this country. Just one request: no simple-minded sloganeers, dittoheads or divinely deluded fundamentalist/anonymous whiners allowed. And that’s the Truth. Night, all.
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:03 AM Thank you, Garrison. We must not be timid. We must speak out on the issues involved in this critical election.
I am filled with rage at what has happened in our beloved country in the past three and one-half years. We have gone to war on absolute lies. We have been driven into our bunkers by the preaching of hate and fear from the president and all his cohorts. We have had our civil liberties taken from us. We have been intimidated by pre-emptive attacks on protest. Almost 1,000 of our young people have died and thousands have been permanently maimed so that the president and his cronies can make off with billions in profits and so that right-wing extremists can have their Armageddon.
I find the latter reason the most damning. I am a follower of Jesus who believes in what Jesus taught. He said, “Love your enemies” and “Do good to them that hate you and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you for my sake.” God is not a god of violence. He is a god of love. “Shock and Awe,” “Abu Ghraib,” and all the other terrible things that are being done to human beings in the name of God are wrong. I cannot control the terrible actions of those who would kill Americans, but I can do something about the terrible actions of those who represent me. I can do everything in my power to see that they do not get re-elected.
Posted by Jay D Weaver on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:11 AM Hey ho, Bernie! I thought you were gone. Check your email later. I was in the middle of typing almost the same thing when I got a wierd message on my computer to restart, in four languages, and now it is kaput. But I have another computer, so if someone hacked me or sent me a virus, too bad. Nice try. A Girl Scout is always prepared.
Listen folks, even if you’ve already made up your minds, take Bernie’s very astute advice and follow the links he so kindly provided and get to know the candidates. If you’re for Kerry, you’ll be able to have an intelligent discussion of his record. Bernie forgot to mention that Kerry led the investigation into BCCI, the mother of all terrorist financing banks, over ten years ago. He knows his stuff when it comes to terrorism, and knew it when Bush was still doing blow down in Crawford. If you think you might be leaning toward Bush, it’s very important to get at that Republican platform. What you’re seeing at the convention is a huge sham designed to deceive you about the real aims of the party. Also go online and take a look at the Republican party platform for the state of Texas. That will send chills up your spine if you are not a fan of the American version of the Taliban.
Jay Weaver, bless your heart. Like my stepmom, you are a person who is in touch with the world saving side of Christianity. Don’t get mad, darlin’, get out there and talk to your congregation on Sunday, and then get them talking to their friends and family. Each of us is like a pebble dropped in a lake - the rings just keep on spreading. We can make this a better country!
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:25 AM For those who lay the Iran embassy takeover at Carter’s door, perhaps they should consider which party’s presidents were the most devoted sponsors of the Shah, or which president deposed the elected president of Iran. More damaging of all was the “heroic” “stand tall” Reagan who first ran away from Beirut, and then traded arms to the very terrorists who threatened and murdered Americans. Republicans talk taller than they walk.
Both parties’ presidents make decisions which they regret afterwards; this president, who insists he can judge a man by the look in his eye or his body language, is incapable of making serious rational decisions or of regretting his mistakes. The record of incompetence and poor judgement is stunning.
I hope to God the many Republicans who regret having voted for him outnumber the many Americans who feel it is unpatriotic to vote against him. It is the obedient fools I worry about.
Posted by pasquino on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:25 AM Need I go on? I need…
Or did it begin when we armed and then abandoned the Afghan fighters in the first place? Or when we sold Saddam chemical and biological weapons and held his hand while he used them on his enemies in Iran and on his own people? Why don’t we see the photos of Rumsfeld or Cheney sitting down with Saddam over coffee printed next to every article in which these men are quoted about Saddam’s evils? They were the men who equipped the evil. Cheney was the biggest seller of capital equipment to Saddam during the embargo. The Bush people were the same men who made a pig’s breakfast of the middle east during the eighties. They have done it again.
Posted by pasquino on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:35 AM Pasquino - thanks for the point about Bush thinking that he can make critical judgments that affect the lives of millions of people based on body language. I found his statements in this regard ludicrous at the time, but I’d like to remind Peggy that he has said this on a number of occasions. I think it is legitimate for us to ask what the hell was going on in his head for seven minutes (!) after he was told that this country was under attack. I’ve viewed the entire video of this interlude, which is available on numerous web sites despite the administration’s efforts to suppress it. It is simply the most bizarre thing I’ve ever seen. Peggy, if you have not seen it, tgo have a look. You will be asking yourself some serious questions about Bush’s competency after you do so. When you watch it, keep in mind that victims were jumping out the windows of the WTC at the time. Not only is Bush incompetent, but his entire staff is as well.
Pasquino, I live in what is known as a very red part of a swing state. I’ve been canvassing both on the phone and door-to-door for Kerry and I can tell you, there are not many people who will admit they’re voting for Bush. Many are happy to vent their frustration, fear and outright anger against the direction he’s taking this country. They are voting in droves and determined to throw these bums out (their words, actually). So keep hoping and also, if you can, give time and money to support the effort.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:41 AM Hate to tell you panty-waists, but I just watched night three of the convention. I’m thinking the bounce will be 10-15 points.
Actually I lied (I’m a Bush supporter, that’s what we do), I didn’t hate telling you.
Posted by Fat Tony on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:42 AM Good Post I found on another forum.
I have a bachelors degree in Internatinal Relations from SFSU (its the best IR program in the USA)
I have a masters of science from UC Davis in International Development—i focused on economic development in developing countries. I am now in my 40’s and have spent about half my life overseas. I have travelled overland from Londaon to Cape Town. Driven to the artic circle. Partied in Havanna. Seen penguins on three continents!
I have worked for USAID, various NGO’s, a US Embassy (cheif warden). I moved over to the private sector 6 years ago and have worked for both a large multi-national as a senior manager and a large privately held US commodity producer-in both roles i did international business. I am fluent in 3 languages, and was raised in part overseas. On top of that i have travelled for business, studies, and for personal curiosity to over 80 countries on 6 continents. I have been around the world 5 times, and to celebrate the 2000 milenium i visited 6 continents—again!At the age of 20 i travelled solo down the length of the Nile. I crossed two war zones, was robed at gun point, begged for food in central Sudan, slept in Mosques, suffered malaria while crossing the Sudd (a swamp the size of England) and 7 months later made it to Nairobi, and a bank!
I have about 300 similar stories. And yes—i have lived in the middle east, done lots of business in the middle east, have many friends and associates in the middle east. Yes that includes time in 4 ‘heartland’ middle east countries, and time in 7 other muslim countries and numerous muslim minority communities in places like northern Sri Lanka, the Swahilli coast, western Ethiopia, India, western Burma, the Nuristan region of Afghanistan, Bosnia, etc. etc.
So yeah i have an informed opinion on World War Three.
HOld on—some more business to clear up. I stand corrected. Brandon sat on an isolated military base in Saudi—completely removed from any chit chats over chai with the local wahhabist fanatics…but i did assume he hadnt been to the middle east. I would contend he still hasnt!
Now with that aside, let me correct YOU. I said the power elites in those countries want you dead. NOT THE PEOPLE. I have MANY freinds in the middle east. In fact the people of Syria are in my opinion the nicest in the world. However: ‘the power elite want you dead’ thats the ‘They’ in my post. Go re-read it. I was clear in stating the power elite want to see dogs eat your entrails on the street. Not ‘the People’ (still—litterally thats what they want to see) Those power elites are in charge of the mass media in thier respective countries. Ever watch Iranian State TV? I have. How about Syrian TV? I have. Lots of times. Lemme tell ya something. Those power elites understand the Anti-americanism is part of the standard model for regime servival in the middle east. Its the single biggest problem the US faces overseas. It breeds on itself—and after the Ayatollah realized this 30 years ago, the model has been copied time and time again.
Do you know why the Shaw of Iran was overthrown? Well thats where it all starts.
He instigated land reform. Giving the poor some land. Do you know where the land came from? The Shiite Clergy.
Do you know who Mossadaq was? The guy in power before the Shaw. Do you know who overtrhew him? A guy from the USA.
Why? to stop the communists from taking over Iran. The US supported the Shaw to stop the commies. When the Shaw, with his support from Washington, took some land from the clergy power structure in Qom, Iran, a domino fell.
Its still falling.
The domino is the power elite in the muslim world developing anti-Americanism as a cornerstone of their world view. Never mind that we are one of the most religious countires in the world. Never mind the Koran says “respect the people of the book (the bible) for they are not infidels” Nevermind the US bombed Christians in Bosnia to save muslims, etc. etc. etc.
No, on every chance that arises the power elite in the middle east exploit events in their mass medias to foster anti-americanism. US in Somalia—portrayed as evil. US sells Israel some helicopters—US is the bad guy—never mind the US sells Pakistan F-16’s!!!!! Or that the Saudis have AWACS from US, or that nearly every freakin country in the world that makes weapons sells them to Israel—no its the evil US selling helicopters that kill the little dog palestinians (who i have lost all faith in).So NO Brandon—its not about Oil. Never was. The US doesnt give a shite about controling oil producing countries. We dont have to. We are their largest potential market. Its all business. We could buy $10 billion a year of oil from Iraq under the oil for food program. Why would we spend $110 billion to invade them to possibly get some oil that we would still have to pay for anyways? And at a time when the Russians just became the largest exporters in the world! Putin wants nothing more in life than to export all the oil he can to us.
The war is for oil? You are an idiot Brandon. A naive little idiot. The hydrogen economy is only a generation away. Oil supply chains are radically expanding beyond the pull or OPEC. And finally—if anything, high prices and instable supply is EXACTLY what those boys in Texas WANT you moron. After $3.00 a gallon it then pays to pump again in Texas—theres still loads of oil under west texas, south texas, etc. It just hasnt payed to bring it in. You dont think those good ole boys would love good ole DubYa somehow revive the Texas oil industry?
If there was a conspiracy it would be to NOT invade Iraq, END the oil for food program, and create incredible tension with Putins Russia—say, over the Chechin human rights abuses…ever notice the US dont say Shite about that????!!! Again you are SO naive, Brandon.
War for oil? Your an idiot. But its SO fun to sit here and LAUNCH on your naivete—cause i run in to it every day, on the radio, in the papers, EVREYWHERE in the US, and much worse,,,,,,in Europe.
SO to conclude. The war on communism lead to the muslim religious power elite seeing us an a threat to there power. This lead to increasing anti-americanism in muslim intellectual circles, and was quickly grasped by media, political, religious, power elite throughout the middle east—where any US action that could be spun as anti-islam, was so spun. This has gone on so long now that it has become the dominant paradigm in the middle east.
Feeling threatened by modernization (and all that means) the power elite in the middle east have realized (rightly!) that the US way of life TOTALLY threatens them.
That is EXACTLY what the fanatics from Answar to Hamas to the Muslim Brotherhood to Qaida are all taped into. And after 25 years of fighting the US in nuetral ground (remember the Achilly Laro-(sic)) or the marines in Lebanon or the Dar US Embassy bombing, etc. etc.)—- they are taking it to the US homeland. Realizing (correctly) that Americans are not really moved when their warships are bombed or their embassies are bombed—-BUT they will shite themselves and their stock market will crash, etc. if they open fire on everyone on a Disney e-ticket ride one sunny afternoon….not to mention bring down their sky scrapers, or what they REALLY want to do, set off a nuke in the continental USA.
Thats what the war on terror is about, Brandon.
Nothing to do with oil, son. NOTHING.Oh yeah—-heres some more for you to ponder over—the war on terror has fronts in China (Xinjiang Province- the capital is called Urumchi—numerous bombs have been going off killing local Han Chinese officials—ya see Xinjiang is majority Uigher Muslims!!)
Russia in Chechnia. Spain. Morrocco. Do you know about the Planet Hollywood that was bombed in South Africa by Muslims??????
How about Japan where a cell was found out before it could crash Nippon AIrways planes…or the bombimg of Australians in Bali, or the plot that was foiled in France to crash planes into the eiffel tower, or the killing of Hindus by muslims who slaughtered a whole trian full of religious men 3 years ago, you get the picture. Its more global than WW II was. AND its gonna get a LOT uglier….the muslims have learned they can dictate policy in France, Germany, Spain, Canada, Turkey, and steer them against the US simply by staging or threatening terror. They hope to change the USA as well by getting us to buckle under their pressure.Grow up Brandon. War for oil? If you want i will gladly point you to hundreds of books, articles, internet sources, etc. to self-educate yourself. And i am not talking psuedo-know it all like D Toqueville, Zinn, or Chomsky.
Its great that you are a curious person, and that you challenge yourself and think (somewhat) for yourself. But you have a long way to go on your road to self-education. Right now you are just another half-educated person. Keep going. Dig deeper.
I really hope your kind doesnt sway the public in November. I have never voted Republican in my life. Probably never will. But right now we NEED a Cowboy in the office. He’s an idiot, but he’s doing the right thing. He’s cutting their balls off, and thats what MUST be done. The alternative is a nuke going off in NYC. Its that serious.So shut up with this half baked bullshite about ‘war for oil’—its a just war. A necessary war, one that was brought to us. One that this country may well have to fight alone. One that the US men and women will have to sacrifice for. We need to remember the country that won WW2. Its time for some backbone. Time to cut their balls off, before they cut ours…
Posted by zman on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:46 AM Oh, Fat boy, frat boy - are you back again? Don’t anybody take him seriously. He’s not nearly as bad as he’s trying to sound. He’s just a trouble maker trying to get your underwear in a knot - right before he puts his on his head and dances around the room listening to the has-been musicians the Republicans scraped out of the bottom of the barrel to entertain the rubes at Madison Square Garden tonight.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:46 AM Joanne: I would have thought a woman of such obvious perspicasity as yourself would have known (as a frat boy), I’m a Bud man. Enjoying one now as a matter of fact. It’s very cold.
I’d be happy and honored to be included in any side discussions with some of the less *frothy* folks around here. And I’m pretty aware of the GOP platform. No political party or politician is a perfect vessel (although I still think Dean would have been a much better candidate to represent the true feelings of a lot of the posters here), but I’m down with W and the GOP. Real down.
Posted by Fat Tony on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:51 AM Joanne: Do you have a cam in my house? You know me all too well.
Posted by Fat Tony on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:55 AM Well, I saw that comment coming on Bush’s expression as the planes crashed and thousands died. My reading is based on the testimony of folks in the CIA (sorry—one a nephew), the FBI, Richard Clarke. & others. Three FBI agents were stupified when superiors told them their messages were “ordered” to be ignored.
Likewise, many intelligence reports before the Iraq war indicated there was NO THREAT. The CIA were so stunned by the developing assault they went public twice. American and foreign weapons inspectors appeared on American television insisting all major weapons had been destroyed after 199l. And that Saddam has ceased the genocide, even relieved an errant son of his power.
A third level official at the Pentagon wrote online of the banishing of officials there who saw the pointless abyss that such a profiteering war would become. When she resigned and came forward, her television apearances can be measured in minutes.
Two career Republicans—John O’Neill and Joseph Wilson—broke ranks in an effort to conserve human and financial losses and halt a great betrayal of the American people. Americans heard. Congress had to have heard. But the war machine rolled on.
Joseph Wilson’s wife and an entire CIA team were compromised by the Bush White House’s punishment for speaking the truth.
See the writings of Paul Krugmam, Maureen Dowd, Bob Herbert, and Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times, a newspaper originally in support of the Iraq war. Read John O’Neill, Joseph Wilson, Bob Woodward, and any number of others. These are not political myths dreamed up to win an election but disturbing facts. Goebbels said if you tell a people they are in danger, you can led them anywhere. And it’s established that Cheney, Rove, Rice, Wolfowitz, William Kristof and others have made a study of conquest in history. This is not my father’s Republican party.
Posted by barbara on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:55 AM Gee Barbara, you mean we’re not really in danger? Did you feel that way three years minus ten days ago?
Posted by Fat Tony on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:59 AM Joanne,
Come up on rvn_sgt6768 yahoo messenger if you can and I’ll give you an address.
Too tired tonight to enter the fray with the exxception of the lady who thought that 9/11 was because Clinton gutted the military. If you read Osama BinLaden’s own words it was as a direct result of American troops (all 20,000 of them -read One Division) being stationed in Saudi Arabia after the first Gulf War. Defiling the hoily lands. They are still there. Hmmm wonder why?? Could it be that without them someone else would be in charge there? Maybe the Bushes wouldn’t have as much money donated to them for re-elections and or pocket change.
Couple of more good books to read for anyone interested in historical facts, 1215 Magna Carta, Reason and Rise of the Vulcans.
Posted by Lyle Shargent on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:08 AM FT—With a daughter in NYC, we were afraid. Following American aggression in the Middle East, a second attack. or rather, continuing attacks, are a given.
Posted by barbara on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:12 AM Brooks,
I may be the only person in America who does not listen to some form of talk radio (prefer to form my own opinions thank you) and NPR was reporting from the Republican Convention with a poll taken that said only 27% of those polled stated that Bush’s economic policies were helping them….....let’s see here that would mean…..wait let me count this out on my toes….....wow!! no wonder the announcers were so concerned….it means that according to your calculations 73% must be liberals coz they didn’t like Bush’s policies.
Posted by Lyle Shargent on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:20 AM Barbara, with all due respect (my brother worked in the south tower, thank God he’s even lazier than me and slept in that morning so I caught him on the phone at home before the lines got jammed). Do you really think the terrorists would have stopped attacking if we had done nothing?
Posted by Fat Tony on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:23 AM Tony - I can’t bring myself to call you fat anymore, sorry. We’ve done very little to stop further attacks, and yet there have been none in this country. And of course there’s probably no one in this country with an IQ above 30 who was not afraid on 9/11. The question you need to ask yourself is, of what? I’m not the only person who was afraid of what our government would do or not do in response. But then I’ve found Bush and his gang of thieves to be somewhat frightening while they were still down in Texas. I found his parents frightful and still do.
I’m not big on fear as a lifestyle. It’s like worrying, which is some circles is referred to as ‘stewin’ without doin’. Saying you’re down with W is truly apt. That’s the only place you’ll ever be with him and his posse.
No hard feelings, though. Get those underpants off your head this minute and try to behave like a gentleman!
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:33 AM To Zman:
Three quick comments:
1) This thread isn’t really a computer dating service. So we don’t really need so many details about your interesting accomplishments and adventures. But tell us, are candlelight dinners and walking in the rain while talking about yourself turn-ons for you too?
2) Your comment: “I have MANY freinds (sic) in the middle east. In fact the people of Syria are in my opinion the nicest in the world” reminded me of the old saw about Vietnam: “Join the Army. Visit exotic countries. Meet interesting, nice people. AND KILL THEM.”
Unlike Fat Tony’s assessment, I’m no panty-waist. (Quick aside: I agree with Joanne that if any people with a sense of rhythm were looking for a political party tonight, watching the pasty white boys and their lacquer-haired lady friends trying to dance tonight on national television should let everyone know that the Repubs are a long way from “Soul Train”). If I thought our military or intelligence community could have surgically removed Osama or (to a lesser extent) Saddam from the land of the breathing, I would have been all for it. But we don’t seem to be able to do that. Instead, we surgically (sic) removed entire families of innocents by the thousands from the land of the living. But since we’re not capable of killing all the chilrden and relatives of the innocents that we have killed without question, comment or apology over the past several years, we are truly continuing to produce more terrorists faster than we can kill them.
Believe me, I don’t think the average Iraqi or Afghani are much different from my Tennessee hill country neighbors. If you kill the ones they love, it does become personal, not simply sterile geopolitics. And unlike elephants who appear to have forgotten all the dance moves they ever learned watching “American Bandstand”, the survivors of innocents murdered in Iraq, Afghanistan, the West Bank or Nashville don’t forget—but they do get even. Even if it takes them generations. And they don’t mind making bargains with the devil or Osama to do it.
3) If you think Bush is an idiot, try electing someone (Kerry) with much more intelligence and much more experience in combat, the military and government. I would expect you would feel safer that way, and even safer knowing that your President could view nice, good people in other cultures as worthy of life, liberty, understanding and respect. Isn’t that what you learned overseas when you weren’t being “robed” (sic) at gunpoint?
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:35 AM Oh Mr. K! How truly you write! Have you seen the car stickers that proclaim “W in 04”—I believe they should be interpreted as Woe 4 us if W is re-elected. Or should I say, if the money flow pushes him into the White House again? And, hey folks, better speak your mind while you still can. Homeland “Security” is probably ready to grab up anyone who has the guts to post something negative about the current administration (which, I devoutly hope, will no longer be current after November).
Posted by Karen Busch on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:35 AM A President is for four years. A Supreme Court Justice is for life. The next President picks four. Scalia and Thomas are staying.
Hello? Hello out there?
Posted by Worried on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:36 AM I agree with the import of the comment posted by Dan Ancona: “Of any tactic, ask yourself how many people will be converted to our cause because of it, for that is all that matters.” - paraphrasing Saul Alinsky. As many of the responses indicate, the great mystery is that our own relatives are Republicans; and they don’t fit your description. Families are being torn apart over this historic rivalry. Who can explain the animosity? Only a fool attempts to put a numinous mystery into a nutshell. We can only let this passion burn itself out. Like a stolen car, the country is being taken on a joyride; and we’ll just have to dig ourselves out the ditch we find ourselves in when its over. Until then, we might as well keep calm civility alive so that the tools of rational public discourse will endure until the day when such discourse will again be possible. Until then, God help us.
Posted by Bill Martin on Sep 2, 2004 at 4:45 AM Great essay, G.K.
Goddamn Kissinger wouldn’t touch this mess. Kissinger. Think about that for a sec…..VIETNAM Kissinger, Mr. Clean-up-and-get-away-clean-and-hit-the-Playboy-Mansion himself steered clear.
Jesus help us all.
Posted by Lee Keeler on Sep 2, 2004 at 5:03 AM Thank you, Garrison for shining the light on this issue.
Our country’s “moral center” has been hi-jacked by small-minded, mean spirited people who basically say:1. Either you agree with us or you are supporting the enemy.
(What happened to freedom of speech, fostering a healthy debate, allowing many points of view to shape a more fully thought out approach?)
2. America has a right to invade and pillage any country if we say they wish us harm.(Especially if they have oil.)
3. We don’t need permission to attack other countries.
(Does this mean all other countries have that same right, or just us because we are the 5,000 pound gorilla?)
I’m very concerned that we have people who think that Jesus was a founding member of the NRA, want Bush because they think he’ll keep God and the Bible up front in the White House. And the greedy, manipulative Republican leaders are more than happy to bring up Gay marriage to keep the conversation about those types of issues.
All the while, they don’t have to defend the loss of jobs, the record National Debt, the 45 million Americans without health care (60.4 percent of workers have health care, the lowest percentage in a decade), the fact that CEOs got an average 9.5% pay increase while the median household income fell by $1500 (inflation adjusted), and CEOs now make 300 times the salary of their average workers, the fact that in 2003, the poverty rate was up for the 3rd year in a row or huge tax cuts for millionaires while the middle-class and poor got a piddling amount.
By throwing up a smoke screen of phony issues for the Evangelicals to get worked up about (and the swift boat fracas), they don’t have to answer for the loss of individual rights and freedoms under the Patriot Act, the fact that Bush and cronies were asleep at the wheel on 9/11 (see the book “Against All Enemies” by Richard Clarke), Bush’s relationship with the Saudis, Cheney’s old company getting all of the contracts in Iraq without having to bid and drastically over-charging the U.S., Enron criminals helping Cheney form oil policy, the plans to attack Iraq long before 9/11, abandoning the pursuit of Bin Ladin (our biggest enemy) to go after Iraq, the defiling of our environmental laws, etc.
We cannot afford 4 more years of Dubya, the windshield cowboy. We can barely afford the 4 more months until the next presidential swearing in on January 20.
Posted by Tori on Sep 2, 2004 at 6:44 AM Very good, Mr. Keillor- and eliquently presented. I’m just continually amazed that despite his low approval rating, there still seems to be big support for what’s gotta be the worst and dumbest president since Warren Harding! I echo the other readers sentiments when they say this country can’t afford another 4 years of Dubbya- God help us if he’s re-elected.
Posted by Charles Polglase on Sep 2, 2004 at 6:51 AM For those looking for a concise review of what Duh-bya promised four years ago and what he has accomplished, see this Washington Post article published today. Because it focuses on what GW promised at his inaugural four years ago, it doesn’t include any of the additional right-wing repressive lagniappe that has come with his “principle leadership”. (If he had told us about Ayatollah Ashcroft, “Kill ‘em all and let Gawd sort them out” Rumsfeld and the rest, even Florida election-stealers coul;dn’t have helped him.) All in all, any objective reader would probably give G-dub a C- for his performance, and while that’s certainly in his intellectual comfort zone, it is woefully insufficient for these dangerous and uncertain times—made all the more dangerous and uncertain by Duh-bya hisself.
Extraordinary times call for more than a marginally average man—vote for John Kerry and send Bush back to (grade) school.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54556-2004Sep1.html?referrer=e email
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:28 PM dub will not be re-elected. First one has to be elected to then be re-elected. He fooled many people in ‘00 but that isn’t going to happen again. Have faith fellow liberals. Hell he can’t even get all of his sheep to follow this time, they are awakening to the bushit. I am putting my money on the prediction of the Gadflyer editor who said it will be a landslide for the our new President Kerry. The next few weeks will be rough but they will pass. Our man Kerry will come on strong as is his m.o.
Thank you Mr. Keillor for all of your good words past and yet to come.
Posted by JIMBOY on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:50 PM I just want to say a few things:
1) Joanne, I know Fat Tony. I think “Soft in The Middle Tony” is more apt, but doesn’t have as nice of a ring.
2) Joanne, you’re infinitely more coherent and original in your thinking than most Dem’s I know. So, I underestimated you.
3) I was a flaming, and I *mean* flaming, liberal until about 1993 when I spent two years working as a repo man for a rent-to-own company. I saw a side of public assistance and liberal “charity” that permanently altered my world view. Not just in my disdain of the welfare system, but in a much more far-reaching, intangible way. In 92, I voted Clinton, in 96 I voted Dole. I didn’t care that he was doomed to lose.
4) I see the world in two ways….the idealistic way that I, as a Christian, would love to see it be. Peaceful, harmonious. (I can hear the liberal ire building) The other way I see it is “as-is, no warranties expressed or implied.” I live a constant paradox between what Christ would likely do about the war in Iraq (rail against it), and what I feel is necessary to do to ensure my family’s survival in this insane world. I used to have a problem with that paradox, but no longer. It is narrow world views that frighten me. And I’m sorry, all rantings and ravings to the contrary, my world view is anything but narrow or uninformed.
5) Unlike Fat Tony, I am opposed to a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. It goes against my desire for limited government, and contradicts my belief in personal liberty. But it’s not a deal-breaker for me. I won’t even get into abortion, because it’s just too damn complicated.
6) In my heart of hearts, I do not believe GWB to be an evil man. I admire and respect him for the courage of his convictions. I don’t care about pissing the rest of the world off, especially when I know we are on the side of right. Does that make us more vulnerable? Sure. But this has been a pretty damn safe country to live in since 9/11. The cynicism that is necessary to believe that GWB went to war simply to advance family business interests or “avenge his daddy” in my mind is stunning and dangerous. To me it is the fruition of a misplaced rage.
So, come on, let me have it. This former Amnesty International Member and Dukakis Supporter can take it.
Posted by Truth on a Thursday on Sep 2, 2004 at 2:58 PM Thank you, Garrison, I could’nd have said it better. What I dont understand is, who are these people and where did they come from? To honestly believe that W has done a good job since 2001 is beyond comprehension…when will they wake up? The only was to defeat W in November is to get out the vote….yours and as many others you can reach with the truth.
Posted by Susan Barner-Rasmussen on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:23 PM Much to think about. I have only to add a quote by Milton Sanford Mayer (having redacted the name of a historical figure in an attempt to be less than inflammatory):
“What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with ******, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.”
Posted by Fritz Freiheit on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:32 PM Is it me? Have I been snoozing too long? Perhaps a bit groggy from long-winded Presidential speeches that never except blame but can definitely dish it out? I ask in all humbleness; “When did Jesus declare himself a fascist?”
Maybe we (I’m talking about we Christians, and other practioners of spiritual beliefs, who don’t think that faith and rationality are opposing traits) should take a lesson from the pundits of Fox news and their brethren. I am suggesting it’s time to do some polarization of our own. Time to thin the religious flock by separating the so-called “born again” Christians from Christians who can think outside the box…no wait, Christians that can think outside the Bible.If we take the spirit of Jesus and separate it from the mangled, often edited, mass translated versions of modern Bibles, throw in some good fiscal policy, respect of other cultures (outside and within our boarders) and viola…we have foreign and domestic policies that most of us can live with and prosper by.
Am I asking too much?
P.S.
If anyone with real decision making authority reads this from the Kerry/Edwards campaign please note my concern: Stop letting the Bush/Cheney ticket define the issues!!! Vietnam??? Stop the insanity. Kerry fought in Vietnam, Bush didn’t. Hell, he probably didn’t even fully serve in the National Guard…and yet it has become an issue for Kerry.Although I am no Machiavellian mastermind, I do see how the Bush/Cheney campaign operates. They take issues that they know that they are weak on and then manipulate them so that the Kerry camp suddenly has to defend itself - and like some evil Chinese finger trap the Kerry campaign does and then America is treated with a rehash of a thirtysomething year old debate. I would find it highly amusing if America itself wasn’t on the cusp of a totalitarian government.
In the above article Garrison Keillor referenced Mark Twain while lamenting on Twain’s wit. Keillor better watch his back. In an America that elects Bush to a second term; Prairie Home Companion is hosted by Bill O’Reilly.
Posted by L.C. on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:53 PM Thank you, Garrison. Your harsh and articulate indictment of Bush and the Republican Party is on target and deeply appreciated. Hearing VP Cheney last night at the RNC was frightening. Cheney’s hollow speech was essentially outright lies, shameful distortions, misleading half-truths and contemptable misinformation. The really scary thing is that so many people believe his grotesque fabrications. There are 2 choices for President: the dangerous, toxic cartoon called Bush…or a real human being, a noble and honorable man of deep character, humanity and vision, John Kerry.
Posted by David Friedman on Sep 2, 2004 at 3:53 PM Brooks, my friend - I knew Tony wasn’t really fat. And he’ll correct me if I’m wrong in thinking that his theme song is “I’m Too Sexy For My Clothes”.
Thanks for the compliments on my lucidity - flattery will get you everywhere.
Look, I understand that the Democratic Party and leadership has been a big disappointment over the last 30 years in more ways than we can count. Most of us are totally with you on that. Where we part company is at that fork in the road that says “Contraction” to the right and “Expansion” to the left. Let me explain.
By contraction I mean the erosion of civil liberties for the sake of a sense of security, as distinct from real national security. I mean the militarization of every aspect of our lives, starting with the enormous costs in tax dollars, to the glorification of the military as a model for how we should organize our world. Last time around it was business that was being glorified, and to a great extent it still is. But now we are being presented with the Frankenstien of the military-industrial complex and being told that we should trust that as a workable model for our existence. Never mind that is is demonstrably true that both business and the military, as organizations with no accountability to those whom they are supposed to serve, have proven themselves to be corrupt, incompetent, and astonishingly disorganized. I can’t understand anyone wanting to turn over the future of their children to such a creation. We must work to dismantle monopolistic corporations, extract the tentacles of the military from civilian institutions, and take back the mechanisms of mass communication from both parties as quickly as possible.
By contraction I also mean the notion that those of us making less than $200K per year should be shouldering the burdens of civil life while this massive transfer of wealth to the already wealthy continues unabated. The Republican solution to this well documented problem is further tax breaks. Even many Republicans are alarmed by this.
I could go on, but you know where this is going.
By expansion I mean that we should always be seeking ways to expand our positive influence in the world. This didn’t used to be a partisan issue. Foreign aid, for example, has always been tied to results perceived to be desirable for the American people in terms of expanded trade, reductions in security threats, etc. We also need to expand the opportunities available to the middle class in the form of education, health care, and jobs. I don’t see this happening with the Republican agenda.
Now I want to talk about your personal experiences with poor people in your job as a repo man. You could use that as a launch point to explore the causes and consequences of increasing poverty in this country. Welfare has been reformed, largely in conformance with the Republican agenda. It started here, in Wisconsin, with Tommy Thompson. I can tell you, it isn’t working because it has been underfunded since day one. Yes, more single mothers are working and their kids are now either unattended, or in many cases in substandard daycare environments. The low wage jobs for which their mothers are qualified offer no benefits and the wages are just enough to exclude them from Medicaid. You will respond that we have BadgerCare, but that program is going broke and premiums have been raised recently to the point that they are unaffordable, so participation is declining. The number of uninsured, while lower here than many states, is rising as employers walk away from what they once felt was an obligation. In many cases, they simply cannot afford to provide it.
I love the fact that you are willing to discuss and consider other points of view. I don’t have a sense that you are willing to actually question your own bedrock assumptions, and that’s fair. I’m old enough now that I don’t often question my own, though I do examiine them constantly to make sure they are still relevant and that I’m getting close to my principles in terms of my behavior. All I’m asking you to do is to examine what the Republican Party has to offer this time around, and how it fits with your principles as an individual.
Your big issue seems to be security and the safety of your family. Many liberals have actually berated Kerry for being so close to Bush on this that you can’t slide a credit card between them. You may want to look at Kerry’s very laudable history of investigating terrorist money laundering, and his actual record of support for defense and intelligence spending. Do yourself a favor and compare it with mainstream Republican senators. I think you’ll find he has nothing to be embarassed about in his record, and you have nothing to fear in this regard.
Thanks for being part of a great discussion thread! And another round of thanks to Garrison Keillor for gettting this started! Whether you agree or disagree you can’t deny he got a lot of us talking.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Sep 2, 2004 at 4:08 PM Powerful and articulate thoughts: humorous,
lucid, and dead-on accurate! Just loved it.
When I remember that Gore got more votes than
Bush I think “How can we lose?” But then I
also remember the shocking voter fraud and
fear for our increasingly fragile democracy.
I’m cheered though by your words and your supporters!
Posted by Elizabeth Sherwood on Sep 2, 2004 at 4:18 PM Too bad the Great Divider, Baby Bully Georgie Bush can’t and won’t read all this good info.
I hate to be crude, but the best way to describe Baby Bush when he walks like a stiff clown is his SUHA walk (stick up his ass walk).
Posted by John Lum on Sep 2, 2004 at 4:23 PM Why doesn’t anyone name Baby Bully Bush “the Great Divider”?
It’s too bad that Baby can’t and/or won’t read this article or the comments.
Posted by John Lum on Sep 2, 2004 at 4:27 PM Mr. Keillor is a wonderful ENTERTAINER, but has little understanding of the big picture in WORLD POLITICS.
Posted by Bruce on Sep 2, 2004 at 4:33 PM So Bruce, what is the “big picture in WORLD POLITICS?” Do enlighten us peasant folk.
Oh, and Truth (if I may be bold enough to call you by your first moniker) as someone who has worked with the poor myself; were you under some impression that the underclasses in society should act more noble because of their poverty or just be more pleasant? Although I don’t believe in necessarily throwing money at ineffective social programs, I think investing in quality schools and meeting basic health needs in any community (particularly one that is poor) is always a good investment…at least better than building and maintaining prisons. The social welfare programs of the GOP only benefit the share holders of multinational corporations that should, based on the writings of Ayn Rand, be able to compete without government assistance. I may be Utopian in my belief, but if this and previous administrations/Congress hadn’t given special considerations to the oil industry we might all be using a cheaper, cleaner, and new fuel source.
Posted by L.C. on Sep 2, 2004 at 5:12 PM Kudos to my favorite folk hero, Garrison Keillor for ‘telling it like it is’...I had to leave the Lutheran Church in the sixties when the kind of hate rhetoric you describe began to overtake and influence honest but uninformed members of the church and no peace was to be found in its precincts. Do I now have to leave the U.S? I am 77 and my 81 year old husband is a veteran of WWII, my son a veteran of the Vietnam war. Where is the country they believed they were defending?
Posted by Mary Hunt on Sep 2, 2004 at 5:26 PM I’ve enjoyed the responses to the accurate and entertaining excerpt (showing up in various places on the net) from Garrison Keillor’s new book “Homegrown Democrat.” I also enjoyed sharing my own understanding of the history of this arrogant and dangerous (duh) administration. I hope Keillor is able to read some of the comments, though most of us are already preaching to the choir.
Speaking of choirs, I noticed the last proclaimed Christian poster did not say that the laws and rights of man came from God. True or not, it’s pretty hard to reference God in a dispute. Therefore it’s necessary to rely on the deliberations of human beings. Let’s hope those legislative and other bodies will always express God-like goals. It’s also important to recall that religion is often the mask of scoundrels. (It seems to be working with many for Bush.)
I was amused to read that conservative Clear Channel is offering something from Air America in selected overwhelmingly conservative counties. You can guess what would happen if the vote bagan to shift in any of those counties.
Does anyone know if it is Cinemax that is offering something (Al Franken?) from Air America—in addition to the net and limited radio stations—later this month?
Posted by barbara on Sep 2, 2004 at 5:47 PM Text of Zell Miller’s Speech at RNC
Wed Sep 1,10:13 PM ET
By The Associated Press
Text of speech by Democratic Sen. Zell Miller (news, bio, voting record) of Georgia as prepared for delivery Wednesday at the Republican National Convention:
___
Since I last stood in this spot, a whole new generation of the Miller Family has been born: Four great grandchildren.
Along with all the other members of our close-knit family, they are my and Shirley’s most precious possessions.
And I know that’s how you feel about your family also. Like you, I think of their future, the promises and the perils they will face.
Like you, I believe that the next four years will determine what kind of world they will grow up in.
And like you, I ask which leader is it today that has the vision, the willpower and, yes, the backbone to best protect my family?
The clear answer to that question has placed me in this hall with you tonight. For my family is more important than my party.
There is but one man to whom I am willing to entrust their future and that man’s name is George Bush (news - web sites).
In the summer of 1940, I was an 8-year-old boy living in a remote little Appalachian valley. Our country was not yet at war, but even we children knew that there were some crazy men across the ocean who would kill us if they could.
President Roosevelt, in his speech that summer, told America “all private plans, all private lives, have been in a sense repealed by an overriding public danger.”
In 1940, Wendell Wilkie was the Republican nominee.
And there is no better example of someone repealing their “private plans” than this good man. He gave Roosevelt the critical support he needed for a peacetime draft, an unpopular idea at the time.
And he made it clear that he would rather lose the election than make national security a partisan campaign issue.
Shortly before Wilkie died, he told a friend, that if he could write his own epitaph and had to choose between “here lies a president” or “here lies one who contributed to saving freedom,” he would prefer the latter.
Where are such statesmen today?
Where is the bipartisanship in this country when we need it most?Now, while young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq (news - web sites) and the mountains of Afghanistan (news - web sites), our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrat’s manic obsession to bring down our Commander in Chief.
What has happened to the party I’ve spent my life working in?
I can remember when Democrats believed that it was the duty of America to fight for freedom over tyranny.
It was Democratic President Harry Truman who pushed the Red Army out of Iran, who came to the aid of Greece when Communists threatened to overthrow it, who stared down the Soviet blockade of West Berlin by flying in supplies and saving the city.
Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Democrats and Republicans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter. But not today.
Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today’s Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.
And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.
Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.
Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.
Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan (news - web sites) rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.
Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier. And, our soldiers don’t just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home.
For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.
It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom to abuse and burn that flag.
No one should dare to even think about being the Commander in Chief of this country if he doesn’t believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home.
But don’t waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution.
They don’t believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.
It is not their patriotism — it is their judgment that has been so sorely lacking. They claimed Carter’s pacifism would lead to peace.
They were wrong.
They claimed Reagan’s defense buildup would lead to war.
They were wrong.
And, no pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry (news - web sites).
Together, Kennedy/Kerry have opposed the very weapons system that won the Cold War and that is now winning the War on Terror.
Listing all the weapon systems that Senator Kerry tried his best to shut down sounds like an auctioneer selling off our national security but Americans need to know the facts.
The B-1 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, dropped 40 percent of the bombs in the first six months of Operation Enduring Freedom.
The B-2 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Hussein’s command post in Iraq.
The F-14A Tomcats, that Senator Kerry opposed, shot down Khadifi’s Libyan MIGs over the Gulf of Sidra. The modernized F-14D, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered missile strikes against Tora Bora.
The Apache helicopter, that Senator Kerry opposed, took out those Republican Guard tanks in Kuwait in the Gulf War (news - web sites). The F-15 Eagles, that Senator Kerry opposed, flew cover over our Nation’s Capital and this very city after 9/11.
I could go on and on and on: against the Patriot Missile that shot down Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)‘s scud missiles over Israel; against the Aegis air-defense cruiser; against the Strategic Defense Initiative; against the Trident missile; against, against, against.
This is the man who wants to be the Commander in Chief of our U.S. Armed Forces?
U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?
Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric.
Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are. How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside.
Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations (news - web sites).
Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending.
I want Bush to decide.
John Kerry, who says he doesn’t like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.
That’s the most dangerous outsourcing of all. This politician wants to be leader of the free world.
Free for how long?
For more than 20 years, on every one of the great issues of freedom and security, John Kerry has been more wrong, more weak and more wobbly than any other national figure.
As a war protester, Kerry blamed our military.
As a Senator, he voted to weaken our military. And nothing shows that more sadly and more clearly than his vote this year to deny protective armor for our troops in harms way, far away.
George Bush understands that we need new strategies to meet new threats.
John Kerry wants to re-fight yesterday’s war. George Bush believes we have to fight today’s war and be ready for tomorrow’s challenges. George Bush is committed to providing the kind of forces it takes to root out terrorists.
No matter what spider hole they may hide in or what rock they crawl under.
George Bush wants to grab terrorists by the throat and not let them go to get a better grip.
From John Kerry, they get a “yes-no-maybe” bowl of mush that can only encourage our enemies and confuse our friends.
I first got to know George Bush when we served as governors together. I admire this man. I am moved by the respect he shows the first lady, his unabashed love for his parents and his daughters, and the fact that he is unashamed of his belief that God is not indifferent to America.
I can identify with someone who has lived that line in “Amazing Grace,” “Was blind, but now I see,” and I like the fact that he’s the same man on Saturday night that he is on Sunday morning.
He is not a slick talker but he is a straight shooter and, where I come from, deeds mean a lot more than words.
I have knocked on the door of this man’s soul and found someone home, a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel.
The man I trust to protect my most precious possession: my family.
This election will change forever the course of history, and that’s not any history. It’s our family’s history.
The only question is how. The answer lies with each of us. And, like many generations before us, we’ve got some hard choosing to do.
Right now the world just cannot afford an indecisive America. Fainthearted self-indulgence will put at risk all we care about in this world.
In this hour of danger our President has had the courage to stand up. And this Democrat is proud to stand up with him.
Thank you.
God Bless this great country and God Bless George W. Bush.
Posted by Al on Sep 2, 2004 at 6:25 PM Written like a true Fellow Traveler. When the facts aren’t on your side, just go to the “big lie” theory. Repeat it enough and it becomes truth. What good is free health care if your ass gets blown up at a Starbucks by one of our “loving” Islamic brothers? The only thing more ridiculous than this article is the fact that a bunch a whiney, lazy losers who refuse to take responsibility for their lives will buy into it.
Marty Miller
Los Angeles, CA
Posted by Marty Miller on Sep 2, 2004 at 6:48 PM Garrison describes the stages of grief…incredibly sad incredibly MAD and acceptance. After last night’s display of near Nazi hate filled rhetoric, its beyond time to take sad and mad and change this country before its too late and we have blindly followed this climate of fear into the doom Bush has created for America on every level.
Thanks Garrison for eloquently writing what so many of us are feeling but do not have the voice to express.
Posted by Judy on Sep 2, 2004 at 6:53 PM b est thing I have read in years. !
Garrison Keilor is the best in the world.
Please have Garrison come to canada as the Prime Minister.
We will vote for him.
Posted by cassie and david Kessinger PhD on Sep 2, 2004 at 7:18 PM Wow, Al,after reading your posting I’m more afraid for America than before. I don’t understand why so many Bush supporters are proud that their boy took on the rest of the world and invaded Iraq? As if our rash reactions have no geo-political consequences. This was the same track of thinking that Hitler used to invade sovereign states. Perhaps if Bush’s frat brat supporters believed in the art and exercise of diplomacy our economy would be in better shape. Wars cost money (not to mention the high human costs) and the Bush administration loves to give tax breaks to those ever so hard working top 1% - which spells fiscal irresponsibility. Even in the best of times, a healthy economy is a fragile thing…just look at the domino affect after 9-11. Currently a large portion of the US debt is being held by foreign banks. What happened to the Republicans? Wasn’t the economy your trump card? Like my dear grandpa used to say, “Lordy Poussy.”
We Americans need to get smart and get smart fast if we are to maintain our status as world leader. Is Kerry the one to lead us? He’s a fine sight better than Bush who seems determined to lead us in a dessert to wallow in feel good Biblical prose. It’s all cute when Bush tries to cowboy-up foreign policy issues until the check comes due and then I fear that all you pro-Bush supporters are going to suddenly be scarce - much like German citizens who admitted to actively supporting Hitler after the last World War.
What is freedom…if it is only a word?
What is liberty…if it is only a statue?
What is patriotism…if it means the destruction of our Constitution?
If you love this country think.
If you respect this nation pay attention to what is happening.
If you believe in the American dream…WAKE UP!P.S.
I’m not equating Bush with Hitler - it is my understanding that Hitler was actually a good public speaker.P.S.S.
Now I’ve done it. I’m probably on some list.
Posted by L.C. on Sep 2, 2004 at 7:27 PM I suppose good ole God-fearing Zell would have the soldiers be our press, poets, and place them all above the law because soldiers are always perfectly decent. The U.S gov. is just above reproach and how dare we challenge our military leadership? Soldiers deserve a leader who has been in their shoes and is not afraid to question the motives for unjust war. Zell asserts that he is putting his family above party faithfulness because he thinks Bush will keep them safer, well I would say that my family comes first too and I believe Kerry will have better chance to make our place in the world safer.
Posted by daydreamer on Sep 2, 2004 at 7:31 PM There it is again. Zell Miller says no one should DARE to run for President who does not see our soldiers as liberators. (Continuing loud applause here) By this token, a citizenry must accept the actions of a small group in power acting under the guise of necessity.
Does anyone recall the term “good Germans”? Those were the many people who DARED not speak out for fear of retribution against themselves and their families. The kind of retribution being ordered by this administration to silence those speaking the truth and against the policies of the administration and their friends.
Even ordinary folks (such as the tiny mostly elderly group out West discussing world affairs who found the sheriff’s office had sent a spy) are under scrutiny. Let’s all continue to DARE.
Posted by barbara on Sep 2, 2004 at 7:33 PM -
register a new account »Posting Security
Also by Garrison Keillor
- A Foul Tragedy
Democrats fled in the face of danger - We’re Not in Lake Wobegon Anymore
How did the Party of Lincoln and Liberty transmogrify into the party of Newt Gingrich’s evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk?
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