G. - You ask us to be more introspective, to stop stereotyping Republicans, to temper our comments with love. You tell us you used to be a Democrat, but you don’t tell us why you are now a Republican, though it is implied that this has something to do with your religion. (If I’ve guessed wrong about that, forgive me.)
You are correct that Republicans embody as much diversity as those in the opposing camp. However, if you choose to identify yourself as a Republican, you will be identified with your party’s position on the issues that have been under discussion here. If you do not personally support these positions, then say so and tell us which are the ones with which you disagree.
I know it’s unpleasant for Republicans to confront their own public image when they step outside the confines of their group. I have seen this in my canvassing for Kerry. The anger of ex-Republicans is not with Clinton or Liberals or Kerry - it’s with their former party and its current leadership. They feel, evidently, even more betrayed than your garden variety liberal, as indeed they should.
You sound as if you are a pricipled person who has tried to live a life in line with his beliefs, and you have been willing to make financial sacrifices to do so. It seems that you will vote for a President who speaks to your principles, even though his actions and leadership may in fact utterly contravene those same ideals. That is very difficult for many of us to understand, thus the admittedly insulting term of “Kool-Aid Drinker.”
If you can explain how the actions of this administration fit with your world view, or how you have changed your world view to reconcile it with the world as we now see it under the current leadership, I’m sure many would be as fascinated as I to read that.
For the sake of mutual understanding, tell us more. Tell us why. Tell us how not to be afraid of you and for you and your Party.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Aug 29, 2004 at 10:49 AM
Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to feel a Christian obligation toward the poor? No—what he really means is that he thinks that Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to think that it is acceptable to use the power of the United States federal government, which includes the power to put you in jail for not complying with the tax code, to continue to redistribute income from those that earn a lot by virtue of their talents, skills, abilities and hard work, to those that don’t earn a lot.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 10:57 AM
To follow up on my previous comments—why does a Christian obligation to the poor translate into (increasingly) progressive income tax rates? I think that a Christian obligation to the poor is a private matter, not a matter for income redistribution through the federal tax code.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 11:06 AM
Quick note to Joanne Roush: go back to the beginning of Garrison’s article, then look at the “Author Bio” box down the right column. This essay is from Garrison’s new book, “Homegrown Democrat”. You might be overdue for an Emily Latella moment, n’est pas?
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Aug 29, 2004 at 12:13 PM
The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few is the death knell of democracy? I don’t know enough about history to say if this is true or not, however I suspect that if this has happened it is because the democracy was in name only and there was corruption at the top. This “concentration of wealth” arguement is not valid justification for (increasingly) progressive income taxation.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 12:19 PM
Main problem is that we need a 2ns party let alone a 3rd party. Democrats are almost same as republicans in many ways with the exception of few femine,gay and in favour of evil trial lawyers. Howard dean was thrown out and Clintonism is there. Kerry is almost same, rather more stupid as compared to W. Pity pity pity.
He should have chosedn Ghephard as running mate rather than Edwards and another stupidity that he went after McCain without making sure that he would say yes.
Posted by ASIF KHATRI on Aug 29, 2004 at 12:25 PM
One last comment—“...patriotism shouldn’t prevent people from asking hard questions of the man who was purportedly in charge of national security at the time”? I agree, however using the word “purportedly” is a cheap shot at President Bush and Republicans. Which Party’s president was in office when 1) the first WTC bombing happened, 2) American embassies in Africa were blown up and 3) the USS Cole was bombed? I don’t think Democrats should get into discussions about “purportedly” being in charge of National Security. Their record as a party is not good in this regard.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 12:49 PM
Richard Nixon felt a “Christian obligation?” Personally, it sickens me that he had the gall to call himself a Quaker. The man was a criminal. He should have been sharing a prison cell with Ronald Reagan!
Posted by Stephanie Jacobs on Aug 29, 2004 at 12:50 PM
Note to Stephanie Jacobs—with all due respect, and this comment comes in full acknowledgement of Watergate and Iran-Contra, yelling that Nixon and Reagan should have shared a prison cell doesn’t help anyone. I could yell that Clinton should have been in there with them, but this doens’t help anyone either. What we need is substantive debate on the important issues facing our country, like what we’re going to do about Social Security and Medicare, and how to deal with the fact that so many around the world want to do us harm.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 1:03 PM
I can’t help myself—this is too easy—is it not ironic that, in an article slamming Republicans, Keillor lauds Eisenhower for declining to get involved in Vietnam, when it was two Democrats—Kennedy and Johnson—who DID us involved in Vietnam? And—more irony—it was the Republican Nixon who oversaw the end of the war.
One more thing—enough with the (implied) analogies between Vietnam and Iraq. There are many many differences, but the most important is this: Republican Bush fought the Iraq war to win and did, while Democrat Johnson fought the Vietnam war with no plan to win other than really wanting to and thus lost. Oh yeah—one more important, and related difference—American casualty total in Iraq: under 1,000, American casualty in Vietnam: 50,000.
I acknowledge that the jury is still out on post-war Iraq, but let’s stop equating the Iraq war and Vietnam war.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 1:52 PM
Thank you, Garrison Keillor; in particular, thank you for the last paragraph. It gives me courage to speak out, when I am much more comfortable not speaking out.
Posted by Sylvia on Aug 29, 2004 at 2:29 PM
I wish a Prary Home Companion could do a skit about this! It is profoundly serious. You, as you often have, hit the nail on the head. The problem supercedes the Presidency. It must be a message that voters send out at all levels of legislation and judiciary. The real issue is letting folks know that THEY HAVE BEEN HAD! We need to get the apathetic angry enough to vote.
Jim Tuffield, San Diego
Posted by Jim T on Aug 29, 2004 at 2:35 PM
Thank you, thank you, Mr. Keillor for having the courage to write this and helping me dredge up the courage to speak up in my own small universe. Perhaps if enough of us do so, we will be successful in removing the current administration from office.
Posted by Sylvia on Aug 29, 2004 at 2:39 PM
While I have only read a few posts here, I have still to read an argument from anyone that amounts to anything more than “I hate Geroge Bush and all Republicans because they’re bad people”.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 2:45 PM
To answer Justin Hornburg’s belief that it was two Democratic President’s Kennedy and Johnson that got us into the Viet Nam quagmire let me state that it was in fact a direct result of the Marshall Plan which began in the days after the conclusion of WWII. “In 1949 Truman and Acheson institued a program of direct U.S. Military and economic aid to the French effort in Indochina. Eisenhower and Dulles made the war even more evidently an American cause. Whereas under Truman the French still bore the bulk of the war costs, eisenhower upped both the share of the costs (to 80%) and the volume of Washington rhetoric. Eisenhower also authorized the dispatch of U.S. ground crews when AParis said it could not fulfill it’s own airpower requirements. Most significantly, when France decided to withdraw militarily from Indiochina in 1955, Eisenhower oprdered American advisors to take their place.” This is fronm page 279 of THE IRONY OF VIETNAM: THE SYSTEM WORKED written in 1979 by Gelb and Betts of the Brookings Institute.
Anyone that would like a concise and complete history of what happened and why we were involved in South East Asia in that period will find the answers in this book. My qualifications: I was an 11B40 and for those like Mr. Bush who have no knowledge of what that means, simply stated, I was a Lightweapons Infantryman in Viet Nam from April 1967 to April 1968. I earned the princely sum of .23 1/2 per hour 24/7 to kill the enemy as identified by my governments. In the ensuing years I have read over 400 books on Viet Nam trying to figure out what I was a part of and what happened to me because of it.
All I ask is that people check your facts before you make a statement that is untrue.
Posted by Lyle Shargent on Aug 29, 2004 at 2:54 PM
To Lyle Shargent—I defer to your obviously superior knowledge of the history of Vietnam. It was the author of the article (Keillor) who wrote that Eisenhower “... declined to rescue the French colonial army in Vietnam ...” This statement by the author would appear to be in contradiction to what you believe to be the truth. It is interesting that the author is falsely building up past Republicans expressly for the purpose of tearing down current ones.
I thank you for your comment and the considerate way in which you made it.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 3:04 PM
Garrison Keillor is longing for the good old days when, for over forty years of being the minority party in the House and Senate, Republicans were content to eat the table scraps of their Democrat superiors. They were indeed “token Republicans”. As long as they stood in front of the cameras and smiled and said nice things about Democrat legislation, Republicans might hope to sit in on a committee hearing or two, perhaps get invited to a golf outing once in a while. It wasn’t a bad gig, really. Republicans didn’t have to have any ideas of their own (let alone fight for them), or, God forbid,(*gasp) be “confrontational”. They only had to be grateful and blissfully “bipartisan”.
But at some point (oh, probably in Bill Clinton’s first term) something went terribly wrong in the political culture of our society. I’m not sure if it was when Clinton announced that he was putting his wife (an unelected and unaccountable non-public figure beholdent to no one) in charge of socializing the American Health care system, or if it was the looming specter of higher and higher taxes (for those who actually pay them) to subsidize all of those wonderful social programs he though we all wanted.
Whatever the reason, American voters were given an alternative to the status quo and in 1994 elected a majority of Republicans to both the House and the Senate, AND THEY CONTINUE TO DO SO TO THIS DAY. So, it seems that Garrison Keillor doesn’t really have a problem with Republicans so much as Garrison Keillor has a problem with democracy and the choices of Americans. After all, Republicans have always been Republicans. It’s the American people that said “Enough!”.
We will all wait in breathless anticipation for Garrison Keillor’s next essay. Perhaps by then he will grow a spine and call the entire American electorate “racist hairy-backed fundamentalist bullies with Bibles” instead of merely alluding to it.
Posted by Susan Dwightman on Aug 29, 2004 at 3:05 PM
You must be all of 15 years old. Read more, please.
Posted by Brad on Aug 29, 2004 at 3:13 PM
Justin thank you for your comments. One final thought on VN and your last posting it was in fact Congress that dictated to Eisenhower not to rescue the French as Dien Bien Phu. The leaders in Congress required a unilateral intervention consisting of American Allies of which none were to be found. Only later was America able to drum up a few allies from South East Asia to meet Congresses requirements. Thailand, Camobia, Laos, Australia not many countries who had troops to put in the field or monies to help offset the cost of the war. Does any of this sound vaguely familiar to the current situation. There are many parallels to Iraq as to be very disquieting.
Posted by Lyle Shargent on Aug 29, 2004 at 3:31 PM
Good point, Lyle. Again, your superior knowledge is obvious (and impressive).
As for Brad’s comment on Susan Dwightman’s post (at least I think his comment is in reaction to Dwightman’s post)—this is classic—Susan presents a reasoned argument and Brad’s reaction is to belittle her. I harken back to one of my prior posts—where is the substantive objection to Bush beyond “I hate him”?
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 3:35 PM
Justin,
There are now several hundred posts on this thread, beginning on Thursday. They are all available for you to read, and I would really recommend that you do so, rather than reading a “few posts” and then drawing sweeping generalizations about the posters from your small sample.
Many of the posts are very cogent and well-written, and are not one-dimensional. A number of them (including my first one) are from people who have at one time or another identified themselves as Republicans but, for many reasons (including those articulated by Garrison), do not now so identify or at least now have decided not to vote for W in order to bring the Republican Party back toward its own center.
Unlike some of the posters, I have not given up completely on the Republican party. If it were not for Senators Snow, Collins, Chafee, Campbell, (sometimes) McCain and others (depending on the issue), the radical changes in our body politic that Bush’s handlers envisioned would have prevailed. And we would all be the worse for that.
So, again, take the time that it will take you to read what has gone before and then comment. Unlike Lyle, you don’t have to face live fire and then read 400 books to try to make sense of the madness that our foreign policy sometimes thrusts good Americans into. You can just spend a few hours reading and then thinking about what has come before in this thread. I do think you will learn something from that exercise, including that your own political colleagues have not hesitated to be dishonest, scatalogical and simplistic in their responses on this thread. Civil discourse, and resolute action based on principle—regardless of political persuasion—is what will get us out of our current mess. Fortunately, God equipped us with one mouth and two ears to aid that process.
And thanks, Lyle, for your service —then and now. Unlike the Swift Boat Apologists for Chickenhawk Draft-Dodgers, this Kerry supporter respects and is grateful for all veterans who put themselves in harm’s way. And like many posters on this thread, we believe that the best way we can support our troops who are in harm’s way tonight is to bring them home safely ... and soon.
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Aug 29, 2004 at 4:02 PM
Again good point Justin. One of the problems with opposing views. I do laud anyone with passion either side but in a respectful way please. No one listens when you are shouting at each other. Point counter-point that is the American way. That is one of the precious gems we are losing under the Patriot Act as it is written. When I have a Bill O’Reilly shouting at me to shut up and I have the Attorney General of my country telling toi watch what I say and think and do then I who have fought for freedom have a huge problem with people like that. When the President of my country tells me that I am either for him or against him I have a problem with that. It is my right to disagree and to state that disagreement as provided for me in the Constitution. I would as Mr. Bush to abide by what our founding fathers gave to us in the future to guarantee our freedoms.The Bill of Rights, the Constitution and Democracy are woth fighting and dying for and some us have fought for them.
You earlier asked about the Christian obligation of redistribution of wealth through progressive income tax and what you should be asking is if a person receives many benifits from a country based on its ability to provide the atmosphere in which said individual is able to amass a considerable fortune should that individual not be expected to share with his/her country some of their bounty? It really is not a part of any religious abligation but a political one.
One last note you stated that it took a Republican President to end the conflict in Viet Nam. This is true so far as you realize that Nixon led the war efforts for 7 of it’s 10 years. 1969 through the conclusion in April 30, 1975. Personally I do not want to see us inviolved in Iraq for 10 years.
I thank you for your kind consideration of all this.
Posted by Lyle Shargent on Aug 29, 2004 at 4:04 PM
To Bernie Ellis—thanks for your reasoned comments and good points. I will indeed take the time to read some of the other posts in this thread. You are right to ask me to not make judgements based on such a small sample.
I do not generally apologize for Republicans, but I felt that Keillor’s writing demonized Republicans with too broad a brush and in many cases unfairly and inaccurately. I personally do not wish to be identified as a Republican—I prefer “conservative”, but not in the sense that that term has been portrayed as just the opposite of “liberal”.
I too, commend Lyle and all who have served our country in the military. I have not, however I do not believe that it is fair to characterize Bush and Cheney and others as Chickenhawks. I believe the implication is that because they did not get shot at in combat that they should not make decisions to commit our troops to battle. They have to—this is the job of the Executive Branch. [We can argue about whether or not Bush pulled strings to get out of going to Vietnam (I’m sure his name and connection helped), but that was a long time ago and he has never made his Vietnam-era accomplishments his main selling points.] They are in a job and they have to do it to the best of their judgement. Again—we can argue about whether or not we agree with their judgement, but let’s not stoop to name-calling. Children do that—adults can make reasoned arguments and understand each others’ perspectives, even if they don’t agree.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 4:35 PM
Garrison,
Just want to say, Love your Radio Show, and Love NPR, you are one of the best storytellers around. I even laughed it up when you had Franken on talking about your book lines.
I am a Republican, who lives in Georgia, and lived in Massachusetts for 19 years and I still find you funny.
Even though you have a great talent for waxing poetic, and storytelling, I find you very short on abilities to protect this country from Al Quaeda or any future attacks.
One Question for you, when have you ever been bullied by a fundamentalist Bible Thumper? Just curious, and it might make for a funny talk episode on your radio program.
And this statement of yours “Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.” You really need to get out of your small pond of Wobegon and get a grip, and realize that making sweeping generalizations about Republicans, Christians, and Southerners really just makes you look mean spirited.
You are in luck, Mr. Keillor, Mark Twain is here in your very hour of need and he has some kind words for you, to guide you. Mark Twain is telling you “GOOD BREEDING CONSISTS IN CONCEALING HOW MUCH WE THINK OF OURSELVES AND HOW LITTLE WE THINK OF THE OTHER PERSON”.
Keep the Faith, Keep the Humor, and I look forward to the next time I listen to NPR and you are doing your radio show.
God Bless America, God Bless our Troops, God Bless our President!
Posted by Anne on Aug 29, 2004 at 4:39 PM
The answer is fairly easy. The Republicans lost power for over 20 yrs. after Eisenhower and didn’t win it back until Reagan. After the intervening setbacks of Vietnam and the oil shocks, they grasped it with a vengeance, attracting the reactionary classes.
Posted by different barry on Aug 29, 2004 at 4:45 PM
Isn’t it great that we can live in a country where we can communicate like this and say whatever we want to say. Many, many have died for that right! Let us not forget…Bush has…
Posted by Thomas Brown on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:03 PM
I am an American! Loyal, patriotic, freedom-loving, God loving, and a veteran.
Now, who the hell gives a DAMN what political party I belong to?
I am an AMERICAN! So are you all! That should be first and foremost in all our hearts and minds.
Enticing people to vote based on Conservative or Liberal labeling is a sick joke on the American populus. The finger-pointing and name-calling would cause our Founding Fathers to throw up their hands in disgust and wonder why they went through all their trouble creating this nation when such petty jealousies divide and polarize us all.
Neither Party has any advantage over the other in terms of offering a “better” government of the people, by the people and for the people. Scoundrels occupy both Parties. What is best for all Americans takes a back seat to what is best for the Party. This is political PUKE!!
America was founded as a beacon of hope for ALL peoples, no matter where they come from or who they are. We were promised life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness WITHOUT having to swear allegiance to any political bent. Yet, both Parties position themselves to be portrayed as the ONLY solution to any problem. And all those in opposition to their views are “un-American” or “un-Patriotic”. HUMBUG!
We are ALL Americans! Period.
If you were a starving Democrat, would your Republican next door neighbor deny you food for nourishment if you asked?
If you were a Republican left homeless from a terrible storm, would your Democrat neighbor deny you shelter from the storm?
Sure, it’s a political season. We all have our opinions. However, it dismays me to see the vitriole being spewed by the Parties in their efforts to convince voters that only THEIR Party is rational, reasonable and honest, at the expense of painting their opponents as the opposite.
WE ARE ALL AMERICANS!
Just as it is wrong to define ourselves as “black”, “white”, “Latino” or “Asian” subcultures, the term AMERICAN applies evenly to us all.
If you were travelling overseas and somebody asked you what nationality you were, would you answer Republican-American? Or, Democrat-American? NO YOU WOULDN"T! So, why must you do that in our own country??
It is ludicrous to believe that only ONE Party believes in strong national defense and lower taxes for all. It is folly to think that only ONE Party cares about school lunch programs and health care for our children.
It is just plain STUPID to judge a candidate on what he/she said or did 30-40 years ago as a youth!
And for those of you who don’t bother to vote, you deserve exactly what you get in return. You have NO right or reason to complain about anything our government does or doesn’t do. If you don’t care to participate in the democratic process of choosing our leaders, then you have no business voicing an opinion about the results! You have chosen to abdicate your right to choose. The only way to vindicate yourself is to RUN FOR OFFICE yourself! If you don’t like your choices, then YOU become one of the choices to improve our political process and government. Anything short of this makes you a hypocrite…enjoying the fruits of those who sacrificed on your behalf while criticizing those who do.
The deep divisions and polarization of our nation can only go so far before everything implodes upon us all. Partisanship is leading our nation to a collapse of the democratic process. Already we are seeing that certain factions are attempting to change our Constitution to reflect their own partisanship on fringe issues. When our sacred law of the land can be entrenched in the meddling of petty divisions, then our very democracy is at terrible risk of destruction.
These are very dangerous times, and WE are our own worst enemies!
But, WE ARE ALL AMERICANS!
It’s time we begin to act like it again and put these polarizing attitudes behind us once and for all.
Shame on us all! Please, Founding Fathers, forgive us!
Posted by Don in Indy on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:04 PM
I agree with much of what Don in Indy wrote. Neither party has a lock on the right answers.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:12 PM
Thomas Brown—I agree with everything you said up to the last two words. Why do you say that Bush has forgotten that many have died for our freedom of speech?
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:14 PM
Dear Garrison: I have just returned to my home in Manhattan after spending the day marching in potest to the RNC and the Bush & Co. dictatorship. Thank-you for your comments, especially for putting 911 into proper context. As we are about to witness, over the next several days, 911, once again, wiill become the GOP’s misguided montra for the election of George W. Bush & Co. If today’s march turn-out is any indication, that montra and it’s conservative based choir will soon be retired.
Posted by Norm Zinker on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:23 PM
Nobody saye it better than Garrison!!!
Thanks Mr.Keillor
Posted by Arthur Criste on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:29 PM
Amen, Garrison! As a life long Republican who has rarely voted that ticket lately I am appalled at where the party has gone. The vitriol spewed by the platform alone should turn off any thinking American. God Save our wonderful country this November.
Posted by Don on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:43 PM
Memo to Cowpox: the war is *over*! Also, were you looking for the ‘Crazy Tangents’ board, or did you actually intend to respond to the essay by Mr. Keillor?
Cowpox reminds me of two things: first, what George Carlin said about Civil War reenactors:
“Next time, use live ammunition, will you please?”
And second, what Morrissey said about copycat writers:
“If you must write prose and poems, the words you use should be your own-don’t plagiarize or take on loan.”
Please don’t drag William Blake into your personal anger problems, Cowpox. Open the phone book to the section on psychiatrists, point to one and pick up the phone.
Posted by D.R. on Aug 29, 2004 at 5:59 PM
Mr Keillor’s essay is splendid.
But we can’t guide the immediate future by the good old Republicans of the 40’s or the snappy Democrat Harry Truman or Ronald Reagan a la Phil Collins.
We have to gather our common sense to vote as best we can.
We have to take information where we can, not just from where we like. There were three different VietNams. I liked the first phase of VietNam and I still don’t like Jane Fonda. Which time of VietNam or Jane Fonda gives us very little information now.
Some folks really like Bush because he is truly charming and cute. Fewer people like Kelly because ‘he looks like a tribal mask.’ We have to put that aside. It really is irrelevant.
Don’t waste time on tv ads; you know that they’re selling soap.
Neither presidential candidate is perfect. If your sister is a screaming fan of Cheney, Dr Rice, or Bush the Younger, try to
think of something OK about those people.
‘The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned’
We need to raise our wisdom and sense and put away our easy
emotion.
Posted by David Hills on Aug 29, 2004 at 6:15 PM
Garrison,
Posted this at Posted by Anne on August 29, 2004 at 6:39 PM and you deleted this…wonder why…it seemed friendly enough. Guess you can not take criticizm.
Just want to say, Love your Radio Show, and Love NPR, you are one of the best storytellers around. I even laughed it up when you had Franken on talking about your book lines.
I am a Republican, who lives in Georgia, and lived in Massachusetts for 19 years and I still find you funny.
Even though you have a great talent for waxing poetic, and storytelling, I find you very short on abilities to protect this country from Al Quaeda or any future attacks.
One Question for you, when have you ever been bullied by a fundamentalist Bible Thumper? Just curious, and it might make for a funny talk episode on your radio program.
And this statement of yours “Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.” You really need to get out of your small pond of Wobegon and get a grip, and realize that making sweeping generalizations about Republicans, Christians, and Southerners really just makes you look mean spirited.
You are in luck, Mr. Keillor, Mark Twain is here in your very hour of need and he has some kind words for you, to guide you. Mark Twain is telling you “GOOD BREEDING CONSISTS IN CONCEALING HOW MUCH WE THINK OF OURSELVES AND HOW LITTLE WE THINK OF THE OTHER PERSON”.
Keep the Faith, Keep the Humor, and I look forward to the next time I listen to NPR and you are doing your radio show.
God Bless America, God Bless our Troops, God Bless our President!
Posted by Anne on August 29, 2004 at 6:39 PM
Posted by Anne on Aug 29, 2004 at 6:48 PM
Bernie Ellis - What are you talking about? Did you think when I addressed a comment to ‘G.’ I meant Garrison Keillor? No, my sweet, I was trying to get the attention of Mr./Ms. van den Bosch. Emily Latella…hmmm. Was that on SNL years ago when it wasn’t really funny anymore?
Posted by Joanne Roush on Aug 29, 2004 at 7:39 PM
Someone posted a few posts ago that he or she would appreciate me providing more information on why I left the Democratic party (or a liberal world-view) to become an Independent and then a Republican. I appreciate the question, for I take it as a sincere one. I also sense that there are some in this conversation thread - though not all - who would appreciate actually listening and learning from each other. So, in answer to your question, here is my response:
My journey from a McGovern Democrat to one about to vote for George Bush was actually a long one and the change was more incremental - with, as you can imagine, a final shove not too long ago. Yes, it was based upon my own crtical thinking to experiences and observations. Rather than provide you with a 30 page biograhy, let me provide a few highlights - here are images, descriptions, milestones to my change from a McGovern Democrat to a Bush Republican. These represent times (in chronological order)when I began to re-think and to re-examine:
1. Listening to my friends and walking with them as they looked for employement after coming home from Viet Nam.
2. Reading Waldon Pond by D. T.
3. Reading in the Rolling Stone that Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones all owned share in the same real estate as Frank Sinatra.
4. Listening to countless professors in three graduate programs avoid anything approaching a discussion on morality or moral clarity (they were so morally confused).
5. As I studied philosophy and history. As I learned about presuppostions, world-views, paradigms, and the track record of Marxism (millions starved in USSR, Africa, etc.).
6. As I observed “activist liberals” discussing tactics for political action in a Grand Rapids, Michigan inner city church - grinding their ciggarette butts in the floor with delight in utter disregard and without even a hint of gratitude.
7. Watching someone in a large gathering simply ask a question of Indepednet candidate for president, John Anderson, about his position on abortion - and then getting booed from the entire audience for simply asking the questiom.
8. Hearing a collegue in a Canadian Christian high school faculty lounge verbally express her hope that more American soldiers would be killed in Lebonon so that the Americans would learn a lesson. And, then, watch as not one of my collegues even blinked an eye or said a word.
9. Becoming a father and raising a child - for the most part - by myself. I became more conservative with each passing day.
10. Representing Head Start and interacting with people working in migrant and tribal programs as well as in various government agencies: I soon diascovered that the people assigned to solve a problem are eventually so invested in their careers and thus end up resisting changes that would actually help solve the problems (e.g. resistence to welfare reform and to universal full-day kindergarten).
11. Representing a liberal arts college in Canada and interacting with business people as I solicited financial contributions. Then, coming back to hear members of the faculty make snide remarks about the very people who had made significant donations for their very salaries.
12. Studying logic and teaching public speaking. istening to countless persuasive speeches on various public policy topics of the day.
13. Re-evaluating my life experiences as I matured and realized that good and evil do very much exist and that moral clarity is and must be available. I realized that such a text was available and the wisdome of the ages was - in fact - true.
14. Dealing with the suicide death of my closest friend and the mental illness of my sister. Strugling with my family to care for my sister and her four children. Observing what and who - in the final analysis - was there to help and who was not.
15. Reading many books and articles from various perspecives. Debating both sides.
16. Waking up to September 11, 2001 and watching as so many around me simply went into denial.
17. Countless conversations with liberals, independents, and conservatives via email, discussions groups, and blogs (including my own).
18. Years of relfection on my own shortcomings, on my own accomplishments, and on human nature as I have experienced and observed it.
These are 18 items that give you at least a flavor for why I moved incrementally from a Democrat to a Republican. I do not believe anyone or any group owns or has a corner on the truth. I think we are all quite fallible. We need each other and we can - and we must - learn from each other.
No, as someone mentioned, my name is not German, it is Dutch.
And yes, my religion has influenced my political beliefs. I believe that we are all religious - we all serve a god of our own making or God. There is no one who does not put his or her first and final trust in someone or something.
That’s enough for now. Since you asked.
Posted by G. van den Bosch on Aug 29, 2004 at 7:45 PM
Hey Garrison, I always enjoy your words…but I have one disagreement. In your words of August 26th, .....“This is a great country and it wasn’t made so by angry people”...You are wrong…. Angry people gave the “Tea Party”...Angry people changed the way slaves were treated…Angry people, black and white, brought about the civil rights movement and changed laws and history. Angry women changed laws, and the way women were treated…. Anger has changed many things to make this country truly grrrreat!! Anger will get bush and his cronies out of office!!
Posted by J. Peters on Aug 29, 2004 at 7:53 PM
Thanks for speaking for all of us. I’m from a large family, half of whom are Republicans, and we can’t talk about politics. This ban has been in effect ever since the 2000 election when I spoke out against W. Come on! How can good people support these criminals who have hold of our country. New Zealand does sound good. My son’s girlfriend is learning Dutch. Canada, how many of us can you take? Better yet, VOTE KERRY.
Posted by Yuma on Aug 29, 2004 at 7:53 PM
Yuma—what crimes have “these criminals” committed?
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:08 PM
J. Peters, were not the British very angry about the Tea Party? And those Southern plantation owners were hopping mad - so angry that they left the Union (while calling Lincoln a baboon!). Angry people resisted the civil rights movement and enacted many of the harshest and most unjust laws of our history.
Angry people can indeed change things for the better - toward public justice - BUT they must check their anger - channel it - for the achievement of justice. Unchecked anger never accomplished anything. Repeat, unchjecked anger never accomplished anything. No one changes as a result of being yeled at or being insulted by his or her neighbor of fellow American.
Unchecked anger against the strawmen “Republicans” and “Bush” will simply usher in four more years of an administration that many of you hope would go away. Your mission will be defeated by your own unchecked anger.
Name calling? You do it and then you accuse others of doing it. Does the same hypocricy exist on the “other side” as well. You bet it does. We are all human and we are all Americans. How about if we all check our anger and begin listening to each other.
What a novel concept.
There comes a time when Tories and Rebels sit down and actually compromise to build a country. There comes a time when Northerners and Southerners make peace and build a country. There comes a time when men and women begin working together to raise families and work in the workplace to build a country.
When will we begin to listen to each other and consider each other - without the self-righteousness and the unchecked anger of today’s discourse? When will we realize that “we” (you, or us, or they) are not the enemy. When will we begin to work together, again?
It starts by “checking” our anger and listening to each other.
Posted by G. van den Bosch on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:08 PM
so, if the republicans win this time, I ADVOCATE A TAX REVOLT. Lets just stop paying for the folly.
Posted by steven tennis on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:11 PM
But the anger is so much fun isn’t it? Better to lose an election than to give up me precious anger. Oh, me precious. Oh me precious. Oh me loves it. Me anger.
Clinton killed Vince Foster!
Oh, me precious anger.
Bush kills babies!
Oh me precious anger.
Me loves my anger.
Me leaves this country. Yes, Me leaves this country. And me takes me anger with me where’re me goes. Yes, me does. Me precious.
Posted by G. van den Bosch on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:19 PM
G. van den Bosch - That was me that inquired about your journey. Thank you for sharing some of your steps with us. What is so remarkable to me is that it would seem we are around the same age and have had many similar experiences. Your list is one of disappointments and disillusionment with the bright ideals and promise many of us felt in the 60’s and well into the 70’s.
I owned my own business for many years, and I paid every employee a good living wage and provided excellent benefits. I did not make much money and when I sold the business I didn’t get much for it. But I can always say I did the right thing and everyone who ever worked for me or with me would tell you that as well. I think there are lots of people like me who found ways to serve the common good, though not in so-called public service.
It’s hard for me to relate to your items that seem to illustrate bad manners (booing, grinding butts on the church hall floor, backstabbing, expressing appalling opinions). I’m also surprised by your two expressions of your need for moral clarity in the context of it coming from outside yourself.
I have read your list twice and have tried to see how these things would lead you to support President Bush. The Republican Party does not seem to me to be offering anything you seem to be looking for in your life. I’ve been watching them develop their platform for the convention. Have you had time to catch any of this on CSpan? I don’t expect you to change your mind, and it was brave of you to reveal so much of yourself, but I still don’t get it. What are the Republicans offering you that makes you want to keep them in power?
I hate to ask for more, but could you please sum up for us?
Posted by Joanne Roush on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:20 PM
To van den Bosch—thanks for your commentary. It is very insightful and right on point. We need less anger and more thoughfulness.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:24 PM
Mostly directed to Justin Hornburg. You seem to be intellegent.You argue with conviction and put down others with a version of the facts,but you wish to paint your picture with an odd pallet of colors.
Our so called friends and allies,the french and germans were against our going into Iraq because they had their own oil contracts with Saddam Hussein and weapons contracts as well.With the U.S. entering into Iraq ,we were bound to find out these things and they are embarrassing poliltically.
The one thing that I took particular offense at was when Doug Lane described Lynddie England as a “wretched lowlife reservist”. People like mr.Lane make me ill. I try not to get into name calling but this really stuck a knife into me.Obviously mr.Lane has not had the remotes contact with combat.I don’t like bringing my combat experiences into this mix,but I have knowledge that I have to impart.I DO NOT condone what Pfc.England and her peers did,but I think that I can understand A reason for what happened. First, not all people are created as equal,we all have frailties and weaknesses. When you share life and death situations with your peers you bond and have an affinity with each other.What they think influences your thoughts and actions.You want to help,protect,and defend these people.If you believe that you are not appreciated by the people that you are risking your life for,you begin to not care about them as humans and only care for your own.When you feel that your government has lost concern for you and your welfare,you pull yourself into a smaller group,such as your squad or platoon.When you hear daily that these people that you are to protect are animals or ragheads or whatever derogatory term is common you start to believe these things.When you fellow soldiers are being killed daily by the people that you see everyday you become very callous about them and their feelings.When you have fear,anxiety,uncertainty,and anger everyday,you become hateful and vengeful,especially when you can’t get at the real people who are responsible and then you go the wrong way and can do the wrong things.These people were not wretched lowlifes!These were people. These were people that have had their lives radically changed,turned upside down. These people probably thought that they were in the service to get an education,so that they could get ahead and have a better life.I volunteered for the army,and for vietnam,but because I was 19 and very impressionable and trusted my government I thought that I was doing the right thing.The point is that I did volunteer and thought that I knew why I was there.These people did not get that luxury.
And finally,some of you people still aren’t getting it.It’s not about democrats or republicans.It is about politcians who have no relationship with their constituents.No desire to help their people,no concern for their well being,welfare,or health concerns.For the most part these politicians don’t even live amoung their constituents.They live in their own enclave amoungst themselves,except when they want to be re-elected.They get into that same mindset that the wretched lowlifes of Iraq do,in that they don’t understand why their constituents don’t appreciate them or understand what they are doing to to help them.
Oh,by the way,our founding fathers were not saints.They had the same foibles that every other person had and has to this day.They were selfish,petty,and jealous among other things.They were able to put together a government by compromising and making deals.They were not saints,so think of that when you invokes their names as if they were saints.Ed P.
Posted by Ed Pleskovitch on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:33 PM
Joanne, you are kind to ask. Thank you.
Re: I’m also surprised by your two expressions of your need for moral clarity in the context of it coming from outside yourself.
Joanne, I do not think that highly of myself to find a source for moral clarity within myself. Certainly not in my heart nor in my reason - for I know full well how fallible and easily swayed I am. Some of the most unspeakable horrors of the last century were committed by people finding moral clarity within themselves. *We* are not to be trusted for moral clarity. Such clarity comes - as you describe it - from an outside source.
The Republic party is anything but perfect - that is for certain. But that party is at least striving for moral clarity. It appears the other parties have a difficult time even mentioning - as a fellow grad student once said in one of my classes - “the ’ m’ word”.
It appears the only thing evil in the other party is he (or she or they) who fight(s) evil. It appears “fighting” is evil for the other party - at least for now. I happen to believe that fighting evil is good.
Yes, I often watch C-Span, though not now as I am spednding - belive it or not - time with family. So, no, I did not see what you described.
Re: What are the Republicans offering you that makes you want to keep them in power?
Moral clarity. Recognition that it is better to earn than to be given. Recognition that there are indeed people trying to kill others and us and they will - in fact - kill us - unless they are stopped. The Republicans are more serious about this (sorry, you can believe that John Kerry or Ralph Nadar will protct you and your families if you wish, I simply do not).
Obviously, there is more, but that is enough for now.
Again, thanks for asking - and for considering. Of such is dialogue and it is tjrough dialogue - not through angry shouting - that we will finally get back to building our country together - once again
(ala the Golden Age of the 50s, the Age of Camelot, etc.).
Here’s to actually listening to each other.
Posted by G. van den Bosch on Aug 29, 2004 at 8:37 PM
Ed P. you have dropped the pearls of wisdom in the middle of your piece! Fear, anxiety, uncertainty - this is the state which our government seeks to instill in us daily with repeated terror alerts, stories about terrorists tampering with drugs; media items about insecure borders, chemical plants, nuclear plants, ports; constant bugabooing day in and day out about all the danger, danger, danger all around us. It’s such a trasparent tactic that I’m amazed at how many people allow this fear to infect their thoughts and actions.
Listen up: if these things are true and disaster is on the way, there is little you can do about it. Roosevelt was right when he said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. We all need to give ourselves a good slap and pull ourselves together right this minute.
I personally believe that we will have to deal with both foreign and domestic terrorism for a long time to come. The world is awash in weapons of major and minor destruction, and most of them are labeled Made In The USA. You can take the attitude that some demogogic leader cult can protect you, or you can resign yourself to start thinking with your head about what needs to be done to provide a reasonable level of security for the nation. You cannot hope to secure yourself or your loved ones 100%, but you can strive to be strong and clear headed, to look for leaders who don’t blow smoke up your ass about how they’re winning the ‘war on terror’. The ‘terror’ is in your head. You can make yourself a victim of terror even if there is never another attack anywhere in the world. You can live in fear until the inevitable end of your days. Or not. Choose and move on.
If you’re ready for a President that inspires hope, courage, and common purpose, then consider alternatives to George W. Bush. He’s just not making the grade in this department and he has managed by his own actions to so polarize people (love him/hate him) that he can never hope to lead in an effective way.
I don’t like to slam folks into boxes, but I have to say my experience with Republican Party supporters the past 20 years has been that they love to create division in order to achieve power, and then claim to be uniters who can’t understand why those who disagree with them can’t make an effort to get along. It’s so high school. All this ‘gotcha’ crap all the time, and all the bald-faced institutionalized lying. I can easily understand why the poiticians do it, but I can’t grasp what is going on in the minds of so many of my fellow citizens.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:02 PM
Who said English Majors serve no useful purpose? Bravo!
Posted by K. Goodman on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:06 PM
Dear NPR;
I would like to share with you what I think really happened on 9/11. First of all if you really want to know you have to go back to the first Gulf War in 1991 when the U.S. was about to invade Bagdad.
Saddam pleaded to their cheif ally, Russia, to come to their aid so theyr finally did. Russia ordered the Americans out of the country and the very next morning President Clinton declared that the major objective of the war had been completed so the American troops were ordered to pull out of the region, leaving Saddam in power.
After that the free world began buying oil from Russia but there was a major problem with that. The oil in the Caspian Sea area was/is essentially landlocked meaning that it is very hard to get to market.
The best way around that problem was to build a pipeline across Afganistan. You probably remember the war that Russia fought with Afganistan to get access to the best route to the Mediterrian Sea. Well, after several years of fighting with Afganistan, Russia was unable to win the right to cross the Afgan mountains with their oil piplines.
That brings us back to Bush and his desire to overthrow the Iraqi governmemt. Bush and the other people in power in Washington, D.C. then made a deal with the Russian leaders that if the Americans would overthrow the Afganistan resistance that Russia would then allow us to overthrow Saddam.
Well, look at it that is what happened. But to get the American people to support the war on Afganistan a tramatic event had to happen. Move forward to 9/11 and remember that for no good reason our government blamed those events on Saddam.
After that there was a widespread panic and desire to overthrow Saddam and his Telliban which we had previously been supporting during their war with Russia. After going over to Afganistan and nuetralizing the Warlords there and before Osama was even captured Russia gave us permission to overthrow the Iraqi people so Bush declared that to make the world a safer place from future terriost attacks we shoudl overthrow Saddam and capture his vast oilfields.
The best way that I can think of to get the Iraq people on our side is to upgrade their country by giving them portable electrical generators and air-conditioners that they can use until we restore their main power units. After that we can give them refrigerators so that they might start enjoying some of their newly acquired freedom from Saddam and emerge from the third world status that they are in right now.
Thank you,
Henry A. Park
Posted by Henry A. Park on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:13 PM
Joanne, I am a Republican. Do you find me devisive? Is your experience with me in this conversation one of creating division?
Or, do you sense that I am a uniter? A peace-maker? Do you have a sense that I am honest? That I am a good father? A good brother? Do you have a sense that I hold people who are vulnerable to be worthy? Do you suspect that I attempt to follow the wisdom as summarized in the “sermon on the mount” a couple of thousand years ago? Do you have a sense - as you review my comments here - that I thirst after justice and mercy. That I wake up each morning to put such thirst into concrete action?
Do you have that sense? Honestly?
Here is my point: I am a Republican. And I will vote for Bush.
Please re-consider your stereotypes. That is what I am challenging. And I make that challenge to myself as well.
Someone once said, “a soft answer turneth away wrath.” Let us turn away from wrath. Wrath has never built anything. It has only destroyed - families, relationships, commnities, and even nations. Let us turn away from wrath.
Please challenge yourself to move beyond the stereotypes presented by the media and by our own fears and misunderstandings. Consider that there are people - in red and in blue “states” - who love this country and seek justice for their fellow citizens. Consider that we are Americans together and that we must put aside the anger and the self-righteousness - as good as they feel - to return to the hard work of building each other and our country up once again.
Posted by G. van den Bosch on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:19 PM
G. van den Bosch - Thank you. I’m sure you realize that I don’t agree that moral clarity can only come from outside, by which I assume you mean your god. I believe the opposite. What is amazing to me is that while you feel it is appropriate and even necessary to look to a political party for moral clarity, you do not seem to believe it is appropriate to look to your government to care for those who cannot care for themselves in our society. Children should not be allowed to live in poverty, elderly people should not go without medicine, no one should be denied health care. If we wish to consider ourselves a moral nation, we should never yield to the temptation to believe that our only choice is to kill or be killed, nor countenance torture, nor institutionalize the taking of human life. We should seek to be merciful and just in our dealings, not aggressive and bullying. Charity begins at home, but the world is our home, so our charity must be borderless. This is my moral vision and I can see it clearly, just as I could when I was a young woman protesting the carnage in Viet Nam.
Yes we all need to talk more, I suppose, and again I appreciate your sharing. Now I’ve taken my turn and I hope you will consider what I’ve said to you. I don’t think you are evil, but I believe you may have turned away from some of what was finest in you when you were a McGovern Democrat.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:20 PM
Joanne, I’ve got to call it a night, but before I walk away from my screen, let me quickly respond:
1. I do *not* look to my government for moral clarity. I look to what I believe to be a revelation provided by God for my / our moral clarity. For me, this is the Bible. For others, it may be the Torah, etc.
2. I believe we are all responsible for the care of those who cannot care for themselves. I used to represent Head Start at the state and national levels and I am proud of that service. I am a Republican - not a Libertarian.
3. Sad to say, but we are grownups here: Sometimes the choice *is* to kill or to be killed. No need to go over our fight against the Nazis, for example. Nor is it necessary - I hope - to remind us of the lives lost to make people free during the American Civil War. Sometimes the moral choice is to kill or be killed (of such is our choice today, make no mistake ... and wishing it were no so will not make it go away) Killing evil is not evil. Murder is evil. There is a moral difference between force and violence - between killing and murder.
4. Charity is borderless - to an extent. But I will not call on you to help pay for my daughter’s clothing as she returns to school. That is *my* responsibility. Nonetheless, we have a moral obligations to protect ourselves and our families. We also have a moral obligation to stop genocide. Children’s prison. There was such in Iraq. We shut it down. What about the Sudan? Shall we simply watch the genocide and wish it would stop?
Joanne, I read what you said carefully and I agree re-examination is always good. I will always be careful to reform myself to what is good and just. And I will do so with a sense of moral certainty.
What was finest in me as a McGovern Democrat was made more certain through discernment over the years.
Thanks for the challenge ... and good night.
Posted by G. van den Bosch on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:46 PM
It’s one thing to become more conservative with the passing years, but it’s another to let your perception stand still and not realize that the Republican Party has long since passed from conservatism into the hate-filled, anti-American organization it is today.
It’s strange to me that there are a lot of moderate Republicans who don’t seem to realize their party is being run by hypocrites and lunatics, by bigoted hate-mongers and subliterate fools. They seem surprised when I tell them this is how the Republican Party is perceived, as though time has passed them by and they have simply ignored the changes that have been going on in their party since the late 1970s.
I long for the days Mr. Keillor speaks of, when Republicans were a necessary part of the political process, because they WERE conservative, and they were reasonable, and their conservative reasoning counterbalanced the emotional rhetoric of liberal Democrats. But those days are long gone and they ended with the rise of Ronald Reagan.
The Democratic Party has too many liberal extremists for my taste, but at least the thinking people are still at the top instead of at the bottom, as they are in the Republican Party.
If there are any reasonable Republicans like Mr. van den Bosch out there listening, you need to overthrow these wild-eyed radicals who are ruining your party and ruining the country with their pandering dissimulation and their unbridled intolerance.
Posted by Dale Greer on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:52 PM
A nice bit of “Bush-bashing”; however, The ONLY
way Kerry will ever be President of the USA is
if God wants to punish a wicked and unrepentant
nation with much grief and tribulation. Kerry would be just the person for the job, and would make Bush look like a rank amature. RCK
Posted by Richard C. Knudson on Aug 29, 2004 at 9:59 PM
Soldier on! Thank you for insightful, well thought out facts to help counter the flow of BS. As a religious conservative I have been ousted by my family for not swallowing the witch burner rhetoric. Wake up “compassionate conservatives” our hour is NOW!!!!
Posted by Susanne on Aug 29, 2004 at 10:11 PM
Thank you for insightful, well written stuff that some of my cohorts will still open their well scrubbed minds to. As a religious conservative I burn with shame to see the TV preachers use God’s holy name to endorse this hypocrit. I have been ousted from my family because I won’t swallow this witch burner mentality. I call on all “compassionate conservatives” to lend their voices to shout down this perversion of the Bible and our religion to feed the greedy and starve the needy. Shame on those who go along to get along. Someone has had to stand against the prevailing winds in many church errors (racism for one example). Join and stop this evil man.
Posted by Susanne on Aug 29, 2004 at 10:24 PM
Oh how I share your passion! Thank you and another AMEN from another old lady.
Posted by Dorie on Aug 29, 2004 at 10:26 PM
G. Van Der Bosch,
I want to start by saying that you have come closer than any Republican in this exchange to being a truly exemplary person. I do get the feeling you practice what you preach. I will also add that I have an IQ of 135, a bachelors degree from college, and I’m a former Southern Baptist who was baptized into the church at the age of 9. I do know what I’m talking about.
You ask Liberals to be more kind, understanding and broad minded. How many letters of similar nature have you sent to Rush Limbau, Pat Robertson, or your beloved President? It seems to me that for 40 years now Liberals have been “weighing issues,” “seeking dialogue,” and trying to be fair. While we pondered, the Radical Right has gathered their forces stabbed us in the back and slit our throats. It was your own presidential candidate, Pat Buchanan, who declared a “Culture War” and urged his fundamentalist supporters to take it to the streets, if necessary. You urge Liberals to be kind, forgiving, and embracing, as if there had even been one shred of such high minded ideals in your own party.
I am a Gay man, G, and any Christian who thinks I should be subject to a death penalty, and a number of Christian leaders have spoken that sentiment in clear public terms is most certainly my “enemy.” Any moralistic judgmental bigot who stands outside my dead friends memorial service praying for his damnation is most certainly my enemy. I have been in a solid committed relationship for TWELVE YEARS! A heck of a lot longer than many of the serial marriages of the moral arbiters who want to “defend heterosexual marriage” by denying my access to it. If you want to defend marriage, out law divorce for straight people! Yes, anyone who says I cannot love and devote myself to whichever human being I choose is my enemy.
In five or six years my nephews will be old enough to be drafted. Any and all gods willing, by then Iraq will be a memory but there will be no shortage of new unnecessary wars for the military industrial complex to goad the government into fighting. Anyone willing to sacrifice those precious boys blood for ill gotten profits and the bloated egos of cowardly men is my enemy.
I’m self employed, struggling mightily toward the kind of self sufficiency your party gives lip service to. I pay almost 15% of my income into a social security system that is annually drained for the sake of pork barrel special interests which your party is every bit as guilty of as any other. There is no money left for a “personal retirement fund” no matter how generous your tax breaks, and yet your party has every intention of making sure social security wont be there for me when I retire. There are people in this world making hundreds of times my salary and paying no income tax at all, but I don’t have enough money to finagle a similar tax shelter. There are businesses thousands of times larger than my own humble endeavors that receive millions of dollars a year, of which my oppressive taxes are a part, while my efforts don’t merit a single dime. You dare to embrace those policies and then claim the moral high ground???
I can’t afford insurance and because I don’t have it the healthcare industry routinely charges me as much as ten times as much as they charge insurance companies for the same treatment. The drug companies charge Americans many times as much as people in other countries are charged and your party dares to claim our “free market system” superior to any other? It undoubtedly is for those with the affluence to buy stock in it.
I don’t smoke marijuana or tobacco. I tried marijuana. I did inhale. I didn’t enjoy it. My property is my property, bought with my own hard earned money. I think I should be allowed to grow anything I want for my own consumption. It doesn’t matter whether that is Tobacco, tomatoes, pot plants, or Belladonna to kill myself when the fascists knock down my door and come to take me away, anybody who wants to tell me I’m free to buy poisonous cigarettes and alcohol from corporate sources but can’t grow any plant that I want to, on my own property, is my enemy.
Currently, The FBI can secretly search my house, filter my email, track the books I read in the library, and the purchases I make with my credit cards. If I had the chance to speak out to loudly, or effectively, against this creeping fascism I might well find myself mysteriously on a “no fly” list unable to travel at will, and with no recourse or appeal. Your party thinks the government should have still greater powers to oppress my personal freedom. Pardon me for being blunt, but anybody who thinks these powers are not being misused now, and wont be misused even more egregiously in the future is a gullible idiot, and yes, anybody who thinks this state of affairs is excusable or acceptable is my enemy.
I could go on for pages. You seem like an intelligent, rational, even sincere, person. Are your eyes open? Are you honestly evaluating the party you support. Is the illusory fantasy of “moral certainty” so compelling in and of itself that you care not for substance?
I’m sincerely sorry your ideals were shaken and your utopian view of the world disappointed. There are shallow, ignorant, and yes, even evil people everywhere. I know from personal experience the backbone of the conservative Christian church, which itself is the backbone of the modern Republican Party is made up of people apparently like yourself. People who have, in spite of being reassured that “Jesus their PERSONAL Savior” and that God has an individual interest in them, been paradoxically convinced that they are so unworthy that they must depend on some outside higher authority to dictate their standards and ideals to them. This in spite of the fact those arbiters are every bit as human as the people they lead. Desperation for some shred of certainty in an uncertain world gives these people the tolerance to overlook even the most breathtaking moral lapses from their “leaders” while self righteousness allows their leaders to guiltlessly commit the most grossly venal of wrongs with God’s approval. Hypocrisy thy name is Conservative Christianity. What would Jesus do, indeed?! I no longer believe God smiles with particular ardor on Republicans OR democrats.
You were kind enough to share all the reasons that you become disillusioned with liberal philosophy. Among others, I too appreciate that. However, you offered very little about what the Republicans have done to impress you, beyond cloaking their own self interest, self righteousness, and personal agendas, in a veneer of moral superiority. Please do convert me. My mind is open, despite what you may think. Show my the 24 carat gold lining inside the sulfurous cloud that is George Bush. Given the fact that I do not own stock in Haliburton Corp., received mere pocket change in Tax relief, am as frightened and revolted by the actions my own government as by our alleged terrorist enemies, and do not have a hollow core of personal insecurity that must be validated by idol (with or without feet of clay)puking forth debased moral certainty, what is there about George Bush that I should admire? His drug addiction? his cowardice? His consistent failure in every business enterprise he’s attempted? His scholastic ineptitude? His complete lack of both curiosity and intellectual aspiration? Certainly not his compassion, humility, and unflinching honesty, because he has none.
Have you visited the FDR memorial in Washington DC? I did this passed spring. The dozen or so quotes from Roosevelt literally brought tears to my eyes. I felt embarrassed that I was so ignorant of how great a man he was and I dispared to think there was a single “statesman” in America today who could speak such high minded ideals with even a pretense of sincerity.
Posted by Bruce on Aug 29, 2004 at 11:23 PM
G. Van Der Bosch,
I want to start by saying that you have come closer than any Republican in this exchange to being a truly exemplary person. I do get the feeling you practice what you preach. I will also add that I have an IQ of 135, a bachelors degree from college, and I’m a former Southern Baptist who was baptized into the church at the age of 9. I do know what I’m talking about.
You ask Liberals to be more kind, understanding and broad minded. How many letters of similar nature have you sent to Rush Limbau, Pat Robertson, or your beloved President? It seems to me that for 40 years now Liberals have been “weighing issues,” “seeking dialogue,” and trying to be fair. While we pondered, the Radical Right has gathered their forces stabbed us in the back and slit our throats. It was your own presidential candidate, Pat Buchanan, who declared a “Culture War” and urged his fundamentalist supporters to take it to the streets, if necessary. You urge Liberals to be kind, forgiving, and embracing, as if there had even been one shred of such high minded ideals in your own party.
I am a Gay man, G, and any Christian who thinks I should be subject to a death penalty, and a number of Christian leaders have spoken that sentiment in clear public terms is most certainly my “enemy.” Any moralistic judgmental bigot who stands outside my dead friends memorial service praying for his damnation is most certainly my enemy. I have been in a solid committed relationship for TWELVE YEARS! A heck of a lot longer than many of the serial marriages of the moral arbiters who want to “defend heterosexual marriage” by denying my access to it. If you want to defend marriage, out law divorce for straight people! Yes, anyone who says I cannot love and devote myself to whichever human being I choose is my enemy.
In five or six years my nephews will be old enough to be drafted. Any and all gods willing, by then Iraq will be a memory but there will be no shortage of new unnecessary wars for the military industrial complex to goad the government into fighting. Anyone willing to sacrifice those precious boys blood for ill gotten profits and the bloated egos of cowardly men is my enemy.
I’m self employed, struggling mightily toward the kind of self sufficiency your party gives lip service to. I pay almost 15% of my income into a social security system that is annually drained for the sake of pork barrel special interests which your party is every bit as guilty of as any other. There is no money left for a “personal retirement fund” no matter how generous your tax breaks, and yet your party has every intention of making sure social security wont be there for me when I retire. There are people in this world making hundreds of times my salary and paying no income tax at all, but I don’t have enough money to finagle a similar tax shelter. There are businesses thousands of times larger than my own humble endeavors that receive millions of dollars a year, of which my oppressive taxes are a part, while my efforts don’t merit a single dime. You dare to embrace those policies and then claim the moral high ground???
I can’t afford insurance and because I don’t have it the healthcare industry routinely charges me as much as ten times as much as they charge insurance companies for the same treatment. The drug companies charge Americans many times as much as people in other countries are charged and your party dares to claim our “free market system” superior to any other? It undoubtedly is for those with the affluence to buy stock in it.
I don’t smoke marijuana or tobacco. I tried marijuana. I did inhale. I didn’t enjoy it. My property is my property, bought with my own hard earned money. I think I should be allowed to grow anything I want for my own consumption. It doesn’t matter whether that is Tobacco, tomatoes, pot plants, or Belladonna to kill myself when the fascists knock down my door and come to take me away, anybody who wants to tell me I’m free to buy poisonous cigarettes and alcohol from corporate sources but can’t grow any plant that I want to, on my own property, is my enemy.
Currently, The FBI can secretly search my house, filter my email, track the books I read in the library, and the purchases I make with my credit cards. If I had the chance to speak out to loudly, or effectively, against this creeping fascism I might well find myself mysteriously on a “no fly” list unable to travel at will, and with no recourse or appeal. Your party thinks the government should have still greater powers to oppress my personal freedom. Pardon me for being blunt, but anybody who thinks these powers are not being misused now, and wont be misused even more egregiously in the future is a gullible idiot, and yes, anybody who thinks this state of affairs is excusable or acceptable is my enemy.
I could go on for pages. You seem like an intelligent, rational, even sincere, person. Are your eyes open? Are you honestly evaluating the party you support. Is the illusory fantasy of “moral certainty” so compelling in and of itself that you care not for substance?
I’m sincerely sorry your ideals were shaken and your utopian view of the world disappointed. There are shallow, ignorant, and yes, even evil people everywhere. I know from personal experience the backbone of the conservative Christian church, which itself is the backbone of the modern Republican Party is made up of people apparently like yourself. People who have, in spite of being reassured that “Jesus their PERSONAL Savior” and that God has an individual interest in them, been paradoxically convinced that they are so unworthy that they must depend on some outside higher authority to dictate their standards and ideals to them. This in spite of the fact those arbiters are every bit as human as the people they lead. Desperation for some shred of certainty in an uncertain world gives these people the tolerance to overlook even the most breathtaking moral lapses from their “leaders” while self righteousness allows their leaders to guiltlessly commit the most grossly venal of wrongs with God’s approval. Hypocrisy thy name is Conservative Christianity. What would Jesus do, indeed?! I no longer believe God smiles with particular ardor on Republicans OR democrats.
You were kind enough to share all the reasons that you become disillusioned with liberal philosophy. Among others, I too appreciate that. However, you offered very little about what the Republicans have done to impress you, beyond cloaking their own self interest, self righteousness, and personal agendas, in a veneer of moral superiority. Please do convert me. My mind is open, despite what you may think. Show my the 24 carat gold lining inside the sulfurous cloud that is George Bush. Given the fact that I do not own stock in Haliburton Corp., received mere pocket change in Tax relief, am as frightened and revolted by the actions my own government as by our alleged terrorist enemies, and do not have a hollow core of personal insecurity that must be validated by idol (with or without feet of clay)puking forth debased moral certainty, what is there about George Bush that I should admire? His drug addiction? his cowardice? His consistent failure in every business enterprise he’s attempted? His scholastic ineptitude? His complete lack of both curiosity and intellectual aspiration? Certainly not his compassion, humility, and unflinching honesty, because he has none.
Have you visited the FDR memorial in Washington DC? I did this past spring. The dozen or so quotes from Roosevelt literally brought tears to my eyes. I felt embarrassed that I was so ignorant of how great a man he was and I dispared to think there was a single “statesman” in America today who could speak such high minded ideals with even a pretense of sincerity.
Posted by Bruce on Aug 29, 2004 at 11:24 PM
It’s time to stop this wishy washy pandering to Republicans. Republicans are the party of ‘of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations.’ Anyone who supports the Republican agenda deserves to be despised.
Posted by Jimmy James on Aug 29, 2004 at 11:46 PM
The trick of how to respect your opponents when they don’t respect you is very difficult. I had the same problem over here in England during the Thatcher years of the 1980s. Many of my friends (normal, decent people) supported her and her policies while not realizing the damage that was being done. The only thing to do is explain over and over again why they are wrong-it is a long and drawn out process but it works eventually.
Also you do get to keep your friends!
Posted by Andy on Aug 30, 2004 at 2:42 AM
Aside from the fact that I disagree with most of G.W. Bush’s policies/actions (Environment, War on Terrorism, Energy Policy, Economics, ...) there is one thing that strikes me again and again. To quote Bush:
“I don’t like discussion. I prefer clarity.”
What kind of accommodation can be made with an attitude like that?
Cheney says that he is “not introspective. [he doesn’t] like looking back. How can he learn from his mistakes?
... and what about this Karl Rove joker?
It seems to me that G.W. Bush is not a President. He just isn’t that bright. Bush is a political figurehead for a regime orchestrated by Karl Rove to implement plans conceived by Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz as motivated by big oil (including Enron), pharacuticals (Pharma) and agriculture (Monsanto).
The vote from the Supreme Court that put Bush in office was cast by Clarence Thomas, previously an attorney for Monsanto.
Freedom to choose? Try to find a corn chip that hasn’t been genetically modified. Hard to tell? Guess what, Bush is against labeling. Milk without growth hormones? The real cause of death “by natural causes?”
I think about all of the intelligent Americans out there, who are relatively well informed who still want to support Bush, and sigh. The only thing I can think is that their values are vastly different than mine.
Posted by Kurt Christensen on Aug 30, 2004 at 3:40 AM
Mr Keillor,
Thank you for a most thought-provoking essay.
I think you touched on some important issues.
But all praise to your correspondent Ronald James.
Bring on the revolution !
Until the residents of the USA take up their responsibililty and abolish their political system, there is no hope of meaningful reform.
If you wish to have democracy, you must have participation. That is, not just a single vote once every 4 years, for vague promises that are quickly abandoned.
You need, at least, binding citizen-instituted referenda, and you need to see your own history of state secrets.
If you don’t know your history, you are doomed to repeat it. If you can’t actively respond to that knowledge, you’re a prisoner.
I can hardly comprehend the disaster your Mr Bush has wrought. But he must be reelected, so he can be charged, indicted, impeached, and imprisoned for the crimes he has instigated.
I don’t see the Kerry crowd holding him to account, or substantially changing domestic or foreign policy.
Why bother ? Just write the cheque to someone else. If Bush et al go free, what’s to stop the next tyrannical miscreant from doing the same or worse ?
Dante’s hell may well be reserved for those that remain neutral in times of crisis, but there might still be room left for those that perpetuate your dilemna by other means.
Good luck, America. Your election is a worthless charade as you only have two right-wing members of the same party. By eliminating Nader, Kucinich and others, you have already adopted the black-white discourse that guarantees you will never hear the real problems, let alone find solutions.
Even if they couldn’t or didn’t win, you could still listen to them ? No ?
“Democrats” and “Republicans” look all the same to me. Like sheep. With blinkers.
Posted by Mark on Aug 30, 2004 at 3:40 AM
To Bruce—I can’t speak (or write) for van den Bosch, but I’d like to respond to your post. This is not in support of the Republican Party (which I think is almost as bad as the Democratic Party!) but a defense of some of what are commonly thought of as “conservative” principles. Again—Republicans do not always govern as conservatives.
What we need in this country is LESS GOVERNMENT, especially at the federal level. I agree that if you want to grow something on your property, you should be able to (as long as it doesn’t infringe on your neighbors’ rights somehow).
With respect to your complaint about paying your 15% FICA tax, what I think we need is to have NO FICA tax at all because we need to have NO federally-mandated inter-generational income transfer scheme (which is what Social Security is). Yes—I think we should eliminate Social Security (I would do it only for those under 40 on 1/1/05, but that’s a subject for another debate).
As for FDR—I don’t know of which statements you write, but I do know this. FDR was President when a lot of legislation was passed and signed that created the welfare state that we have toda, with its too-large, instrusive federal government and bureaucracy.
I will be voting for Pres. Bush in November just like I did in 2000 (it didn’t “count”—I live in Michigan). I will vote for him, not because I think he’s perfect or because I support everything he has done, but because he has 1) done what in his judgement he needed to do to protect this country (Afghanistan and, yes, Iraq) and 2) he is more likely to govern as a conservative than John Kerry is (despite the Medicare drug bill, campaign finance reform, and other decidedly non-conservative legislation he’s signed).
Thanks for reading.
Posted by Justin Hornburg on Aug 30, 2004 at 3:43 AM
I have never laughed and cried so much at the same time. Thanks Garrison.
Posted by Mike on Aug 30, 2004 at 4:59 AM
G. van den Bosch - G. van den Bosch –
1. Excuse my mistake, but before you ‘outed’ yourself, you did not come right out and refer to the Bible as your source of moral clarity, and you did state that you were seeking moral clarity in your political leaders, hence my mistake. It is clear now that you are seeking leadership that agrees with your interpretation of the Bible, in word if not in deed. Thank you for clarifying that point. Please don’t pretend that you give equal credence or respect to the principles embodied in the Torah, Koran, or any other spiritual tradition. And it would be a healthy step to also acknowledge that you are a member of a group or church whose interpretation of the Bible is only one of many among practicing Christians.
2. Head Start is on the Republican hit list and will be gone very soon if Bush prevails. That is simply a fact. You can also say goodbye to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Housing programs, etc. I don’t know how things are where you are, but our churches and community groups are already collapsing under the burden of providing basic necessities for the homeless and hungry in our area. Incidentally, we have one of the lowest rates of unemployment in the country, yet poverty is rampant and visible.
3. Please don’t condescend to me. I stated that we should never believe that our ONLY option is to kill or be killed. I believe that true spiritual leaders from Christ to Ghandi have made this point the centerpiece of their teachings. I believe this tendency to think in such narrow terms is the sign of an immature mind. It is not a matter of wishing things were different, it is a matter of working to make them so. May I remind you that you are not God, and it is highly unlikely that God speaks through your candidate.
4. If you own a home, I will tell you that we all help you pay for your daughter’s clothes in the form of your mortgage interest and property tax deductions. We also paid your way when you worked for Head Start. By all means protect your family. The best way to do that is to see all the world as your family, including Iraqi children for example. Your points about Sudan and children imprisoned in Iraq are silly because I’ve already stated my position on those things.
Finally, I hope you will look carefully at the platform, policies and actions of the politicians you support for election. Obviously, you shall have to choose between the lesser of two evils and it will always be so for someone who is struggling to live in congruence with any humanitarian value system. However, it is an effort that must be made. Think Atticus Finch.
You are most welcome – and good morning!
Posted by Joanne Roush on Aug 30, 2004 at 5:43 AM
Ah, more liberal nonsense. Funny how often the term “rhetoric” is used. Rhetoric is usually unsubstantiated speech. I didn’t find much of this article to be justified with any substantial arguments behind it. Just a bunch of name calling. Much similar to the Democratic platform of today—rhetoric.
Posted by Eric Di Marco on Aug 30, 2004 at 5:49 AM
“Hypocrisies shine like cat turds in the moonlight!” I think Twain would be proud.
Posted by Steve Plantz on Aug 30, 2004 at 5:58 AM
For one of the few times I find myself disagreeing with Mr. Keillor. To say that the country is in hock “up to the hubcaps” doesn’t begin to plumb the depth of the debt. Vote!!!
Posted by Chas on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:17 AM
All the usage of colorful adverbs and adjectives probably isn’t required, but you caught the sad truth. Through it made it a great read.
For those that think only the Republicans can deal with threats to America - I agree with the awareness
not with the implementation.
It’s a good time to remember what made America!
Adastra
Posted by larrry on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:21 AM
Prayer for all Americans:those of faith or not.
Dear Higher Being(even higher power than George W Bush), Please know we are on the side of each of our God and not stating that God is on side. Please guide and protect the people of the United States who need your Grace more than any time in the history of our country.Yes, George bush must be defeated, but we are not praying just to have you decide an election, but rather to guide us to see the difference between EVIL and GOOD! Please help us to know that it is through love and respect and careing for one another that George Walker Bush will not be relected and never again to be in national government! Amen
Posted by Frederick Arthur Avila on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:33 AM
Before I sign off for good (38 emails this morning was a bit much), I owe Joanne a “Never Mind” myself. I do appreciate her drawing G. out on his political evolution, and the moral contradictions therein. If I were a fundamentalist Christian, I would have a hard time reconciling the immorality of the Republican party—the lying (WMD, nonservice in the National Guard, rampant cocaine use W can’t bring himself to admit), the cheating (Enron, serial marriages among those most opposed to granting gays equal protection under the law, putting candidates in nomination—as the Republicans did in Illinois—who ask their wives for public blow jobs) and the stealing (Halliburton, ever-expanding budget deficits). I would wonder whether my Bible contains a loop-hole under “Thou shalt not kill” that allows the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents in Afghanistan and Iraq. I would wonder at the mercy of an Administration that wants to deny medical cannabis to dying cancer patients and to imprison their caregivers, while turning a blind eye (and perhaps worse) to the largest opium crop EVER harvested in Afghanistan.
The introduction of the fundamentalist Christian influence in our politics not only dishonors the wisdom of our founding fathers (and mothers) to keep church and state separate, but it puts us in a position to be unfavorably compared with the Taliban. They too believed that their actions were/are divinely inspired, and they seem to have a similar respect for women as our own “divinely inspired” politicians who want to deny women the right to choose their own lives and paths.
So to me, the moral decision this time is easy. I will vote for John Kerry, who quoted Lincoln so eloquently at the Democratic convention that we should not arrogantly brag—as the Republicans do—that “God is on (their) side” and instead humbly pray every day that “we are on God’s side.” My God made the heavens and the earth, and She put me here to be of service and to protect Her creation. So the moral choice for me is easy: Defend women. Defend children. Defend all peoples on the earth. Defend America. Defend the earth. Defeat Bush.
Thanks, Garrison, for stimulating so much heat and light this weekend. Now it’s time to go register more reawakening Americans, and throw the self-righteous and immoral bastards out. How’s that for a moral imperative? If Bush’s ignorance and arrogance has accomplished a reawakening of our democracy, then “it (truly) is all good.”
Posted by Bernie Ellis on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:34 AM
Good morning, a quick comment before I head off to work:
Joanne, our conversation here is illustrative for me on how difficult is is for us to dialogue during this time of polorization. We speak past each other, addressing stereotypes. we know so little about each other - our neighbors - that we simply fill in the blanks based on what we see in the media or hear spoken by our mates.
I remember a time when grownups would openly speak about Catholic priests fornicating with nuns and drinking the blood of innocents. During their childhood, these people watched actors dressed in blackface mimick sterotypes of “colored” people. during our own time, many Arab children are taught the Jews are the off-spring of monkeys.
Today, one of the groups stereotyped is “conservative Christian” or “Evangelical Christian or “Fundamentalist Christian”. It’s considered OK in the mass media and in polite conversations to stereotype this group and then to attack the stereotype. As in days before, the conversation usually begins with a disclaimer - I know they are not all like this but (in my youth I remember listening to people say, “I know there are some good niggers, but…”). Today, the “N word” is not used in polite conversation. But words like “Bible thumper” are used without hesitation.
Joanne, let me quickly address your points:
1. I hardly think I outed myself. I freely mention here as well as on my blog which is available for your consideration: http://bluegoldfish.blogs.com/surface/ my religious presupositions or world-view. I speak as a Reformed Christian (to be more precise, neo-Calvinist, if you care). I am not a fundamentalist. And of course I seek leaders who agree with me. Does anyone not do this? Is there something wrong with this? Nonetheless, I realize - as did our founders - that to make this country work, we must compromise. Every election is such and I am OK with this. As I have said repeatedly in this thread, We need each other and we can learn from each other. The fact that there is such a misunderstanding of where I am coming from abnd what I believe perhaps means that I may not have explained myself adequatel;y last night. Forgive me. It was late and I was also speaking with my daughter as I wrote.
2. I am not pretending to give equal credence or respect to the principles embodied in the Torah, Koran, or any other spiritual tradition. As a participant in a Democracy, I do. I fully expect those who draw their moral direction from such testaments - or from their own hearts or reason - for that matter - to do so before they enter the voting booth. That is what Democracy is all about. And as I respect the rights of those different from me, so, too, I expect their respect for my conscience and for my pursuit of happiness. And, apprently, there may be another stereotype operating here, so let me explicitly “acknowledge” (and celebtrate!)that (I am) “a member of a group or church whose interpretation of the Bible is only one of many among practicing Christians.” I do so, clearly.
3. On Head Start “on the Republican hit list and will be gone very soon if
Bush prevails”: Joanne, with all due respect, I believe that I have worked for that organization and also with other related government agencies in similar positions to let you know that Head Start is not on the chopping block. There are those with vested interests - oh I could tell you stories - who are using scare tactics for political (and funding) advantage. Head Start6 may very well be transferred to antoehr department (Education), but it will most certainly not be axed. What may be axed are the cushy careers of some Head Start administrators (I said administrators, not teachers)with fake doctoral degrees, inflated salaries, and a resistence to positive reforms. Joanne, trust me on this, I have years of experience and many examples I could cite.
4. “You can also say goodbye to Social
Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Housing programs, etc.” - simply not true. what evidence do you have?
5. “churches and community groups are already
collapsing under the burden of providing basic necessities for the homeless
and hungry in our area” - again, simply not true. Those groups and churches are actually thriving. Please cite me three examples if this is such a reality. Cite even one, for that matter. Simply not true. As someone working in this area, I know. Excuse me for sounding so certain, but I am.
6. “poverty is rampant and visible” - compared to what? To the rich or to the rest of the world? The average poor person in our country lives with television, airc conditioning, a patio and two rooms for each person in the household. This is more than the average *person* (I did not sday “poor person”) in PAris, Vienna, in all of Europe.
7. I did not intend to condescend you, and if you intereted anything I said in that light, I apologize. Again, I am writing rushed before I go to sleep or go to work. And I am sure you did not intend to condesced me when you say “I believe this tendency to think in such narrow terms is the sign of an immature mind.” or “May I remind you that you are not God ...”, etc.
8. I am well awayre of and grateful for the government assistannce in my life and in our lives. Again, I am a Republican and not a Libertarian.
9. And I hardly think my point on Children’s Prison or the genocide in Sudan weree silly. I think they are profound and I prefer to look at them head on.
10, Indeed, for a final point, I will llook carefully at the platform, policies andactions of the politicians I support for this election. We must all hold each otehr accountable.
I challenge you and the others reading this comment to do the same.
Final note: hae you ever read the letters or diaries of those who lived during the Civil War? They were filled with such misunderstanding, such prejudice, such ignorance. Ironically, today - even with 24/7 cable and Internet, we continue to really know so little about each other.
What can we do to “get back to Lake W.”? I mean, really get back. Something to think about.
I wish you peace and I wish you justice. As one American to antoher, let me wish you a good day. I hope our conversation has diminsihed the anger bwetween us and broken down at least some of the sterotypes that are set up between us.
Posted by G. van den Bosch on Aug 30, 2004 at 7:34 AM
What an excellent article! So eloquently stated! Thank you, Mr Keillor!
Posted by Margie on Aug 30, 2004 at 7:44 AM
More war,
less freedom,
less healthcare,
less science,
lower wages,
more isolation,
more secrecy,
and more deception!
Be paytriotic
Vote Republican!
Posted by SteveV on Aug 30, 2004 at 8:02 AM
Ah, now I must go out and buy the book. This excerpt is absolutely wonderfully witty and right on the money.
My entire e-list has been sent a copy and I have received some wonderful feedback even from a few the “fence sitters” and Republicans. We need more “opinion pieces” along these lines sent to the local newspapers - albeit, perhaps not as witty. I would request that all those who posted comments do just that. I know I will.
You are a superb thinker and writer. Tune in to Prairie Home Companion as often as possible. Keep up the good work.
Posted by Albie Young-Pabon on Aug 30, 2004 at 8:51 AM
Nice. Doesn’t it say something when G.K. is making points like this. It’s not exactly his fun-and-friendly norm. He’s pretty mainstream. A lot of mainstream people are speaking up about politics in ways that is far from normal.
Some Republicans I know have noticed precisely what you’re saying, G.K., and are voting for Kerry. Although, most people who identify themselves as Republicans have not noticed the shift and keep voting, no matter what. Shouldn’t the people shape the Party, rather than the Party shaping the people? Tail wags the dog, unfortunately.
I made a website to voice my frustrations, and I’m not some crazy liberal.
::Scott
http://www.TheWeeklyBush.com
Posted by Scott on Aug 30, 2004 at 8:52 AM
If Bush would have NOT gone to war with terror, you liberals would be persecuting him for THAT. Have you forgotten that the Democrats were 100% for going to war? Now you want to blame Bush because it hasn’t been easy? You know, the media fails to remind us of all of the good things that have come from Operation Iraqi Freedom (e.g. the removal of a ruthless dictator, schools, drinking water, etc. for Iraqi citizens)
Also, it really annoys me how the liberals think that the Republican/Conservative agenda is to “help” the rich and not the poor simply because tax cuts are NOT biased toward the lower or middle class. You know why the rich get a big tax cut??? THEY PAY MORE TAXES! Ever tried to start a business? Do you know how much money you pay in taxes? Ever mortgaged your house and taken a risk only to see that most of your money goes straight to the govt???? Guess what? The Govt. is not supposed to be a Robin Hood. Govt’s job is not to guarantee that you have a house, car, etc. These are all YOUR responsibility to attain. Read the Bill of Rights—you won’t find these listed among them. The Republican agenda is a smaller govt.
So, what IS govt’s main job? To protect us. God bless George W. Bush for doing just that.
-Drew
Posted by Drew on Aug 30, 2004 at 8:55 AM
You go, Garrison!!!!
I am reminded of Alexander Pope, who said that the duty of a poet was to say “what oft was thought, but ne’er so well expressed.”
Garrison, you’re a poet!
Jane Hawes
Posted by Jane Hawes on Aug 30, 2004 at 9:49 AM
Thank you Garrison. I think that fear and anger have causes SO many of us (republicans) to relinquish our logic and sensibility. We look at our president in the same way that we look at the WWF in that we know it’s not real, but we like watching someone bomb brown people on our behalf. If this administration is allowed to continute for another 4 years, I truly fear that our country will be doomed with the world hot on our heels. Oh how we slept through the 2000 election; exhousted after months and months of watching our leaders dragged through ugly scandal. We though that everything was going so well that nothing could ruin it in 4 years….how wrong we were. I’m happy o see that you have the guts to step forward to become food for the right wing pundit grinders like Hannity, and Limbaugh….........history will prove you a hero.
Posted by George on Aug 30, 2004 at 9:52 AM
” Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.”
Put THAT on a T-shirt.
Posted by Cynthia Schmidt on Aug 30, 2004 at 9:59 AM
As great as this essay is, it’ll never change the minds of the people it talks about. They’re not about reasoned debate, they’re about winning. (Note the “we will win anyway” focus of the pro-Bush comments in this thread.) Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, and recent events have showed, they will do absolutely anything to keep it, including gaming the systems that have kept America free and strong for two centuries.
There is absolutely no antidote for this poison except for the broad, decent mainstream folks of America to wake up and vote against extremists. When the radical right is voted out of office it tends to dry up and blow away almost overnight, because power was its only lure.
This has to happen in Congress as well as the White House. Don’t just focus on the Presidential race, pay attention to your House and Senate elections as well, they are crucial.
Posted by Anser on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:05 AM
Drew wrote:
“Guess what? The Govt. is not supposed to be a Robin Hood. Govt’s job is not to guarantee that you have a house, car, etc. These are all YOUR responsibility to attain. Read the Bill of Rights—you won’t find these listed among them. The Republican agenda is a smaller govt.”
Exactly right, Drew, and the 800,000 ADDITIONAL US children living in poverty this year (as compared to last) should have chosen their parents more wisely. The 1% increase in the child poverty rate (the third increase in a row!!) is proof that GWB’s vision-thing for America is WORKING! Screw compassion and charity; We’re Republicans!!
Drew also wrote:
“So, what IS govt’s main job? To protect us. God bless George W. Bush for doing just that.”
Could I ask a couple of questions on that point?
1) Who was in charge of national security at the time of, arguably, the biggest breach of national security ever? (Hint: it was a Republican.)
2) Got Goat?
Thanks GK. Matt.
Posted by Matt Barker on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:16 AM
After reading all of these responses, I understand now why the Republicans are headed for victory in November. Crackpot conspiracy theories (e.g., 2000 repeat), overwrought feelings (end of our Republic? HA HA HA), and generally emotional psychobabble. The problem is that Democrats think with their hearts rather than their heads. Try using some logic and argument for once. Then maybe a guy like John Kerry can figure out which way he wanted to vote on the war.
Posted by Mike Hunt on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:46 AM
Mike Hunt wrote:
“Try using some logic and argument for once.”
I’m all for it, Mike. Yes, there have been some overheated and over-the-top statements on here, but I figure most GK fans are logical, reasonable people. So give us one good, logical reason to vote for GWB’s reelection, and I bet a bunch of us jump on board.
Thanks.
Matt Barker.
Posted by Matt Barker on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:55 AM
Thank you Garrison for Nailing it so Eloquently. Those who can, must speak up Now. It is too late already for Thousands of mained and murdered Iraqis and Americans. Our earth is being poisoned with industrial toxins and detonated uranium. Our Treasured Forrests are being cut. Who would have dreamed it ?
Posted by Jean Turley on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:57 AM
One thing that has really amused me as one who grew up a Slavic American in the Cold War, is that Bush is so fond of that old KGB Putin! Putin is his SOULMATE! Where the hell is McCarthy when he is needed?
In actual fact Putin is an unreconstructed Soviet who has conned Bush cleverly into sitting on Central Asia for the greater good of Mother Russia. He is a very clever man who has led an all too willing victim down the garden path.
In fact I’ve found the neo-con friendship for other old communist leaders highly amusing, what with them defending Milosevic on the right wing talk shows so often. These people doing the defending never had to wonder if the water they drank had been too close to a mass-grave and ought to be boiled. But what do you expect out of people whose leaders made their money off concentration camps? Who still make their money off Chinese PLA prison camp factories? I’ve had to educate a few of these ‘traler trash’ Republicans that shop at Walmart about the truth of where the cheap goods are made! When they know the truth it really hurts their stomachs.
Posted by Katja on Aug 30, 2004 at 11:00 AM
well now what?!? eloquence will only get us so far. the kerry campaign for some reason does not seem to fully grasp what is at state. A common modern liberal error has been that we are too calibrated in our responses. FOLKS this is not a college debate; this election is for the very soul of our nation—but the kerry folks are still treateing this election cycle as an intellecutal exercise.
the american voter was action, decisiviness, and aleartnss. (pardon the typos) but Kerry has failed on those fronts.
We need him to clearly articulate what is at stake; and then challenge the voters. But no! he has terry mcauliffe and others trying to answer bush via tit for tat.
WAKE THE HELL UP or we will have Bush for the next 4; and then here comes Frist!
Posted by james on Aug 30, 2004 at 11:03 AM
Garrison, what a profoundly frustrating capture of GW Bush, the Darth Vader of the United States, killing us abroad literally and figuratively, and at home. I applaud your brillant assessment. I was raised in a Republican family of the 50s and unfortunately my siblings are still stuck there. I’ll vote to change the White House—pray that happens.
Posted by chris on Aug 30, 2004 at 11:21 AM
Matt Barker wrote:
” the 800,000 ADDITIONAL US children living in poverty this year (as compared to last) should have chosen their parents more wisely. The 1% increase in the child poverty rate (the third increase in a row!!) is proof that GWB’s vision-thing for America is WORKING! Screw compassion and charity; We’re Republicans!!”
There’s so much wrong with this viewpoint, I’m not even sure where to begin. First of all, let me again repeat what I said earlier: Even CHILDREN don’t have the RIGHT to shelter, food, clothing, etc. Therefore, it’s not the job of the govt. to provide these things. Every child born in America is not entitled to be born into a family that has a home, a car, etc. If I could guarantee that my child (who will be born in Feb.) will have all of these things when he is born, why should I keep working? I could just let the govt. provide it, right? You think THAT’s the solution? Bush believes in faith-based initiatives to resolve this. There are plenty out there. If you really care to fix the problem, you could donate your money to these organizations (for the sake of the argument, I’ll inform you that I do) and not the govt. Let’s face it, paying higher taxes to the govt. is the LEAST effective way to solve the poverty issue.
Also, let me ask you this: why do you think people live in poverty to begin with? Is it really because they or their parents never had the opportunity to work hard and get out of poverty? I’m not even going to go into the magnitude of opportunities that everyone already has here in America. Different jobs pay different wages because of simple supply and demand. It’s a lot harder to go become a doctor than it is to sweep floors for instance. Shouldn’t you get paid more for your efforts?
The liberal viewpoint—>“the govt. will take care of me even if I drop out of school.” Whatever happened to “reaping what you sow?” That’s not cold-hearted. That’s justice. It also provides incentive to those that DO work hard to get ahead (without getting taxed out the yin-yang).
You’ve heard the expression: “Money doesn’t grow on trees.” Wonder how all of the wealthy people got rich??? THEY WORKED FOR IT! Wow…what a concept! How long has it been since you read the grasshopper and the ant story?
Posted by Drew on Aug 30, 2004 at 11:24 AM
One word Garrison - AMEN! However it is sad that old Bush does not have enough knowledge of the English language to know what you have written - let alone the smarts to understand your ‘fancy’ words. This old girl is proud to be a Democrat and not afraid to take a stand. I am so sick of Bush and ‘Bushisms’. He is an embarrasment to the USA and what she stands for.
Posted by Leann on Aug 30, 2004 at 11:24 AM
Keillor should know dull. Have you ever tried to make it through one of his radio shows or read any of his books. By the way, the Heinz family wouldn’t have partaken in any of the corporate greed aforementioned, would they?
Posted by Dan on Aug 30, 2004 at 11:51 AM
Drew wrote:
“Even CHILDREN don’t have the RIGHT to shelter, food, clothing, etc.”
I guess that points up a fundamental difference in our values. I’m not willing to entrust the nation’s children to the whims of the free enterprise system and the “go f*** yourself” greedheads running the government.
I too give a considerable amount of money to private charities, both faith-based and secular. But the Census Bureau’s new child poverty statistics don’t give me much comfort that non-governmental solutions are sufficient. The problem has become steadily worse during the President’s term, not better. How long do we have to wait until we see some results?
So we can say “let them starve if the private sector doesn’t step up” or we can say “our children are at least as worthy of government subsidies as is big oil.”
You decide. M.
Posted by Matt Barker on Aug 30, 2004 at 11:54 AM
I disagree with Drew. I believe that Children DO have a right to food shelter and healthcare. Drew, it’s people like you that scare me most in America. Honestly opinioned people who don’t feel connected to the suffering of anyone other than them and their own. Do you honeslty think that everyone who is rich got that way by hard work?? Do you think that George bush WORKED hard to be in a position of priviledge that allowed him to fail UPWARD for decades on his fathers name and connections? Nevertheless, part of what’s WRONG with the american consciousness. When jobs and opportunity are low…..we do our best to hoard and cordon ourselves off from everyone else. Bill Clintons economic legacy was to show that when the least of us feels safe and supported by society, we ALL flourish.
Sadly, it’s your mentality that will ultimately lead to the downfall of our country if it takes hold. It is the type of divisive “me vs. them” outlook that every other nation in the world looks at when they reject America. When a child born in the inner city has funding for headstart. This is a child PROVEN to have a lesser likelyhood of becoming a victim of the streets and ultimately less likely to become a criminal who preys on everyone else (you and me)!
George Bush believes, as did Reagan, that if we can get the rich to flourish to some imaginary critical mass, the breadcrumbs from their table alone will “Trackle down” to benefit the rest of the working class. Newsflash: it didn’t work!
Clinton believed that if we empowered the working and middle class by increased spending on education, healthcare, and community uplift by increasing taxes on the top 10% of Americans (none of which you or I know), we all would rise as a country. News flash: it worked!!
Now we’re back to making the rich richer and the poor poorer as sound economic policy and a part of compassionate conservatism. I don’t care what your take on any specific policy may be, but if you back up a few paces and SQUINT, you’ll see how simple things can be. Nothing has improved since George Bush took office. Name ONE thing that is better in your life now, than before 2000, then name all of the many things that have gone DOWN since 2000 and the answer is simple. This country (regardless of your personal politics) have gone BAD since George Bush took office. To despute that basic fact would fly in the face of all logic. Period.
Posted by George on Aug 30, 2004 at 12:34 PM
Wow! Thank you for writing this. Those of us in Republican strongholds like mine love hearing that there are more of us out there who understand the dangerousness of what is happening and I am hoping to convince more of my neighbors of the same.
Becky
Posted by Becky on Aug 30, 2004 at 12:40 PM
Naturally, this discussion has degenerated into name-calling and references to sexual proclivities, as these things always do. Few have responded to the Yankee-hater. His comments chilled my blood, but as least he offered a rationale for supporting W that I can understand—revenge.
Fellow patriots, try to stay strong and don’t give into the fear and rage we all feel but must resist. We may not win, but we can go down fighting, knowing we did what we could.
Mr. former liberal, I don’t know what happened to you, but you are right about the grief. We will be in deep mourning for the country we grew up believing in, that our loved ones fought and died for, ultimately, perhaps, in vain. I am braced for despair, though I haven’t given up hope yet. Kerry may not be our savior, but his election would at least be a sign that We the People denounce the actions (and the inactions) of the despot(s) now in charge, and it will prove that democracy still lives. If we fail, the pain will be hard to bear. Maybe we can keep fighting, maybe we’ll fight harder, maybe there will be a revolution, or another civil war, or maybe, yes, the end of the world. Maybe business can continue as usual for years to come. Who can predict? I have a feeling our American landscape could take on a new and shocking appearance, charred and broken. We shall see. All I plan to do is take it as it comes, fight it as comes, as best I can. My head may end up in the sand with everyone else’s, if I can no longer bear to look. I’m no hero. Our best hope is to bond together, stand together, and if we do that I promise I will stand with you. May God help us all.
Posted by Gwen McKenna on Aug 30, 2004 at 12:42 PM
The problem with what Gwen McKenna wants is that it dovetails exactly with what Karl Rove wants. The hardball operatives of the neocon junta are perfectly happy to see liberalism go down in a magnificent display of honorable virtue - as long as it goes down.
For the nouveau Right it’s like what Vince Lombardi said: winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing. Of course they brush serious debate aside in favor of name-calling and dirty tricks, because *that’s what works*. If it stopped working they’d stop doing it in a heartbeat.
The way to make it stop working is to make moderate intelligence politics the “new hotness.” A lot of money goes to the far right because people are convinced they’re going to win anyway and they want to support the winning side. Puncture the illusion of invincibility and the money will evaporate.
Posted by Anser on Aug 30, 2004 at 12:52 PM
Great article, Mr. K.
As I walked in New York City yesterday with the other 250,000+ Americans who oppose the neoconderthal’s who run this country (run it into the ground, actually), I met not a few of the delegates to their stageshow cum convention. Absolutely clueless without an exception. One woman, literally with a tear in her eye, actually stopped me and asked, “Why are you doing this? Are you trying to destroy our country? I really don’t understand what you are protesting against!” When I pointed out to her the newest numbers on those living in poverty, those without healthcare, the underfunding of education, etc. not to mention the illegal war W has gotten us into, her eyes glazed over and all she could say was, “But we have to be safe. George Bush will make us safe.” It was then I realized that these folk may truly lack critical reasoning abilities.
Sad, how sad.
Paul
Posted by P. Dodenhoff on Aug 30, 2004 at 1:00 PM
I fear that Amerika has fallen into the darkest of times. Personal freedom and liberty is rapidly dissapearing, if not gone.
I find that many of my friends, aquaintances and client are afraid to state/post their feelings and beliefs via eMail, on-line forums or even using cell phones. Well, this American has not!
Homeland Security - HA! Republican Security, possibly. I, for one, may not fly any more. Not because I am concerned over [my] safety, but because I refuse to play their cattle car games.
Why are we in Afganistan/Iraq? I have one rule - Follow the money - who stands to profit? This question may be extended to the World Trade Center bombings as well…
Samuel
Posted by Samuel K. Tennis on Aug 30, 2004 at 1:08 PM
This is a courageous piece by a man who has a great deal to lose by speaking out in these troubled times. A large percentage of his audience and fan base is in the so-called red states. Bravo.
Posted by Marshall De Bruhl on Aug 30, 2004 at 1:26 PM
I grew up in the 50s. This used to be a great country full of hope, ideas, and pretty decent folks (along with some real wack jobs). The worst thing we had was Charlie Starweather.
What happened?
I have a grandchild coming.
And it makes me sad.
Nice piece of writing Garrison.
Posted by Just Plain Joe on Aug 30, 2004 at 1:53 PM
<<(along with some real wack jobs)>>
Somehow you have let the “Whack-Jobs” take over the asylum. The world is petrified of what is happening to your country. PLEASE get it together before it’s too late.
Posted by Dick on Aug 30, 2004 at 1:58 PM
Brilliantly written piece. Thank you.
Vote!
Posted by Perilous on Aug 30, 2004 at 2:02 PM
Mr. Keillor certainly does have a way with words. One point he makes at the end, though, undermines a lot of what he said before. “This is a great country, and it wasn’t made so by angry people. We have a sacred duty to bequeath it to our grandchildren in better shape than however we found it. We have a long way to go and we’re not getting any younger.” To me he seems much angrier than the people he’s criticizing. Furthermore, the people he’s complaining about are a big part of the heart and soul of the country. They are not mean-spirited or cold-hearted. They are church-going ordinary people who are trying in their own ways to cope with the deterioration in values that they see around them – values that, by the way, are corroded by more than Enrons and Halliburtons. Sunshine liberals in Hollywood and cynical intellectuals do their share of damage. What is needed is another great leader like Lincoln or Roosevelt who can reconnect the better instincts of these people with a political agenda that offers something more than unimaginative reruns of the liberal and conservative programs of the last 50 years. I think that’s why neither political party can command a significant majority. It’s as David Brooks described in the NY Time this Sunday. “It has become like World War I. Each party is down in its trench, lobbing the same old arguments, relying on the same old coalitions. Neither party is able to gain a lasting advantage. Neither party is able to accomplish much that it is proud of. Trench warfare finally ended because somebody invented the tank.
It is time for one party or another to invent the tank, some new governing philosophy that will broaden its coalition and transform the partisan divide. For Republicans, the progressive conservative governing philosophy is the tank. It is the approach to politics best suited to the emerging suburban civilization, best suited to life during a war on Islamic extremism. It is the way Republicans can build a governing majority and leave a positive mark on the nation and its destiny.”
It could just as well be the Democrats who invent the tank. Maybe it will be an entirely new coalition of interests from both parties. I don’t care who does it as long as it gets done.
Posted by Jerry Brown on Aug 30, 2004 at 2:10 PM
As a fellow Minnesotan and longtime fan of GK, I’m glad to see him move from his ironic and (only mildly) amusing profession after the 2000 election debacle that “we’re all Republicans now,” and finally put both light and heat where it belongs.
For us liberals, I might offer some small ray of hope that Rove Juggernaut, Inc. may not be the precision manufacturer of hype and slime they’re reputed to be: I received a mailing last week that I was chosen to complete a survey as “the best person to represent Edina (my hometown) as a Republican Voter in Minnesota.” Ironically, I also received a survey from the ACLU and an invitation to join. Guess which survey I’ll be filling out and enclosing a check to?
It’s not often I get a peek at the opposition party’s correspondence to “the faithful.” I was struck by two things:
1. Any contribution to “Bush-Cheney ‘04, Inc. during the general election report period may be re-designated to the Bush-Cheney ‘04 General Election Legal and Compliance Fund to be used only for legal and accounting expenses during the general election.”
Does that mean they’re already passing the hat to contest what may be a perilously close election?
2. “What can you do right now to help the President? Watch your mailbox. Look for your absentee ballot request. Sign and return it. Make sure your vote counts. Then come help the President by volunteering to get your neighbors to the polls on Election Day.”
On the face of it, this seems to be a contradictory message—send your ballot in (so it will be assured of being counted) and then bust your butt to haul other Republicans to the polls, even though the electronic voting machines may not be working (or haven’t yet been rigged).
In any event, it would seem prudent for as many Democrats and sympathetic Republicans as possible to cast their votes for Kerry via absentee ballot, just to be on the safe side. There must be a reason that the Bushies are being encouraged to do so.
Tim
Posted by Tim on Aug 30, 2004 at 2:19 PM
Dear Anser,
You make a good point. When I read about reformed liberals embracing Bush because of his “moral clarity,” I feel overwhelmed that the world has gone mad and we can only cling to the shreds of our beliefs before they burn up and we plunge into the abyss. If we can get savvy we may have hope. The problem is, liberals have become either no-compromise-both-sides-are-corrupt Naderites, or get-out-the-vote-and-hope-for-the-best-but-god-help-us-all-if-it-doesn’t-work borderline defeatists (like me), who have no idea what happens next even if we do win. Or, in extreme cases, defectors who (I guess) just couldn’t take it anymore. How can you get idealists and bitter former idealists on board with your plan? More to the point, I guess, is how do you generate the illusion that everybody’s on board? If Kerry could convince people that he & his peeps know what they’re doing, just give them the reins and everything will be under control, it would work. Certainly he could say this more convincingly than W can, yet no one seems to be convinced yet. It is already “hot” to hate Bush, but we need more.
Posted by Gwen McKenna on Aug 30, 2004 at 2:48 PM
Mr. Keillor makes his point well, as always. He also touches upon a few things that I have been ruminating over for several days now.
I live in a “red” state (hint: same one GW claims to as his homestate - only, I was actually born here). It follows that I number quite a few Republicans among my friends. Most of them are actually good, honest, compassionate people. Like me, most of them seem to care about the future of our nation and the good of our people. Our disagreements - and we do disagree quite vigorously sometimes - are over how to approach these things. These are good people and (as best I can tell, being no expert) good Republicans.
Having said that, I cannot understand how these good, honest, compassionate Republicans I know could possibly support this administration. Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft - not to mention their allies in Congress like DeLay - are not good Republicans. They’re not good citizens. Hell, they’re not even good human beings. One wants to scream at the good Republicans, “Is this REALLY the best your party can do???”
I think Keillor is on to something here. The GOP is not the party of Lincoln anymore. It is no longer the party of Teddy Roosevelt, or of Eisenhower, maybe not even the party of Reagan (no matter how much I disagreed with Reagan’s policies, I always believed, at least, that he was an honorable and decent man). Bob Dole has retired from public life, and John McCain is not getting any younger either, and there are no younger moderates stepping up to fill their shoes. Maybe it is because there are none left.
It saddens me, as a Democrat, to see what the Republican Party has become. When one party sinks so low, might the other not be far behind? And then, what happens to our country?
Posted by Don on Aug 30, 2004 at 3:06 PM
Brilliantly written. There is alot of brilliant writing around at the moment, describing eloquently the terrible state of the USA.
BUT
And thats a big but.
One of you has to step up to the plate and write something that approaches a solution to your problems. You can wax lyrical till the end of time about how america has gone to hell, and nothing will change. That is the crucial difference between you and your colleagues and the Republican/Corporate/Neocon/Pigopolist axis. They TAKE ACTION to make their nighmare come true, you sit and write. They will always win unless you change your tactics.
I will help you. Now.
If you think that voting will change anything, you are sadly mistaken. John Kerry’s platform is absolutely dreadful and business as usual. You can vote untill the cows come home or the fat lady sings, and nothing in your country will change.
You need to fatally and permanently cripple your government so that it can never threaten you or anyone outside the USA again. If you are not willing to do that, to defang that terrible monster that you feed every april, then do not bother to write these beautiful screeds, because they are impotent infant pacifiers that keep the problem unsolved.
The next thing you write must be The New American Manifesto, where the people take back control of the destiny of that land and its position in the world. If you are not able to do this, or if you for any reason are unwilling to do this, then you must return to your normal life and cease all complaining, because you are a failure, and a part of the problem.
Dante’s words on neutrality are fitting. In your case, and in the case of all the eloquent writers, today in the 21st century, neutrality equates exactly with eloquence. You are neutral if you do not offer a plan. You are a part of the problem if you do not have uppermost in your agenda, the need to permanently solve the problem of who runs your country.
There are no two ways about this. America will cease to exist if you do not take action. If you rely on Democracy to bring the fix to your door you are delusional. Democracy is for the hellbound, the Swiss, The Norwegians and the other civilized countries. It is for places that are orderly quiet and stable. America doesnt have time for democracy - it cannot fix your problems. American democracy is a thumb in the mouth of a retarded child, it is political vallium. If you swallow it, if you suck your thumb like a retard, you will be destroyed, and no one in the world wants to see that happen.
The world needs america to right itself. The world needs to see that great country return to the days of Eisenhower (without the ignorance and discrimination obviously). If you can do this, and I can think of no other country where such a turnaround can happen, then you will be leading by example, the world will follow willingly, and we will all reap the benefits.
Should you fail….
Posted by Yankee Doodle on Aug 30, 2004 at 3:14 PM
News item: On the new World War II Washington DC Memorial there will be a gold star for every 100 American soldiers killed.
We Got Gold Stars
We got gold stars
For spelling bees
We got gold stars
For Japanese
And German kids
We killed before
They killed us first
We killed them more
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids
We got gold stars
On winding shrouds
We got gold stars
Our folks were proud
We got gold stars
In Jr. High
And then we all
Were asked to die
We got gold stars
And we got killed
We got gold stars
The generals thrilled
To let us make the sacrifice
We got gold stars
And that was nice
We got gold stars
We were all brave
We got gold stars
On every grave
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids
We got gold stars
For dropping bombs
A folded flag
Went to our moms
We got gold stars
Because we died
We got gold stars
For suicide
We got gold stars
Because we served
We got gold stars
What we deserved
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids.
Not one gold star
For every child
Not one star each
That would have piled
Those stars like corpses
On those walls
A thousand miles
To hold them all.
A thousand miles
Of lifeless suns
Of endless dead
From endless guns
A thousand miles
Of children’s names
An endless silent shriek of shame.
We got gold stars
Our parents grieved
We got gold stars
Like autumn leaves
We got gold stars
We died like men
We’re sending children
Off again
We’re sending children
Off again
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids
- Richard Marcus
Posted by Richard Marcusd on Aug 30, 2004 at 3:35 PM
Thank you Garrison Keillor! Your words were well appreciated, and I hope that your words are heard by all.
Posted by Robert B. Diaz on Aug 30, 2004 at 3:37 PM
Great article, but I don’t buy the goodness of Eisenhower…don’t forget he has blood on his hands in the Congo…same as our country does in Guatemala, W. Timor and Chile…Chile and Guatemala 2 democratically elected governments. We had the potential to be a great country…still do…but methinks that has probably passed us by…as Shakespeare taught us in MacBeth…power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely ... unfortunately, I feel we’ve gone down that road that bent in the undergrowth…and we probably will regret it. We already do.
Think about it, the number of people killed or missing in Guatemala alone, 200,000, that doesn’t include the number of people tortured, the number of children left orphans, the number of villages wiped out. How many twin towers can be divided into 200,000? and for some 40 years? We have much blood on our hands.
In the spirit of Dante, I have spoken my piece.
Posted by Mel on Aug 30, 2004 at 4:17 PM
Bush by the numbers:
Nearly 1,000 Americans dead in Iraq, along with about 15,000 Iraqi civilians, despite the fact Iraq had nothing to do with Sept. 11.
Zero weapons of mass destruction.
At least 1.2 million fewer jobs.
At least 8.2 million jobs short of the president’s own modest goal of adding 7 million jobs (more than 22 million jobs were created during Clinton’s eight years).
About 5 million more Americans under the poverty line.
More than $1 trillion added to the national debt.
Thousands of Americans and good folks from scores of other nations dead in New York after the worst lapse in domestic security in U.S. history, after eight months of the president dismissing all things Clinton, including focusing on terrorism, and a record-setting pace for presidential vacation time.
Zero meetings with anti-terror chief Richard A. Clarke, a lifelong Republican.
Zero Predator spy-drone flights over Afghanistan.
So ...
Why is the party of Honest Abe Lincoln and trust buster Teddy Roosevelt handing its nomination back to a lazy, cowardly liar who built a war on a foundation of falsehood and is bankrupting the nation to shovel tax cuts to the greedy?
Republicans, please put patriotism ahead of your partisanship.
Posted by Bill Mishler on Aug 30, 2004 at 4:58 PM
A light, sweet, cheerful, happy, kind, loving, tolerant, uplifting, inspiring, attractive, positive and supremely optimistic assesment of current affairs! Thank you for the ultimate example of “the way to be”.
Bravo GC, well done! Encore! Ritalin!
Posted by Terry McAuliffe on Aug 30, 2004 at 5:18 PM
Dear Mr. Keillor,
I grew up listening to your voice in the badlands of North Dakota on my grandparent’s horse ranch. Cowboy poetry, crickets, and meadow larks (and words/songs from Prairie Home Companion) were the “music” I imprinted on. Being a child of the 80’s, though, I couldn’t help being seduced by hip hop, too. I just wrote a song which I’d love for you and your readers to hear BEFORE the election. It’s called “Suspicious” and the link is this: http://www.popghetto.com/home.html
This is not a promotional pitch. It’s a gift from one “North Country” boy to another (in trade for your brilliant, down-to-earth essay.) Thank you.
Posted by Chris Sand on Aug 30, 2004 at 5:20 PM
when you have absolutely nothing to offer, you launch a hate filled attack like this one - what a shame that so many have praised it - read it again and ask yourself if the direct comparisons of Republicans to Nazis and other despicables of the past is really what you want to be saying and supporting - if it is, this country is in a good deal more trouble than Keillor suggests and you Dems and your attitudes are far more a part of the problem than you are a part of the solution -
Posted by Bob on Aug 30, 2004 at 5:27 PM
Bravo, Garrison Keillor. Perhaps in more ascerbic rhetoric than I’d have employed, this is what’s been on my mind—a life-long, fifth generation Republican who cast his first vote for Eisenhower in 1956. What is occurring to the Grand Old Party with which I grew up is acutely troubling. My great-great grandfather, and great-grandfather, who helped found the Republican Party in 1856 when it stood for “Free Soil, Free Men and Fremont” must be spinning in their respective graves. Even my father (by anyone’s definition, a “black Republican,” as that term was used in those days), who was a candidate for State Assembly in California in 1938, insisted we listen to FDR’s “fireside chats,” especially during WW II. And, both FDR and Eleanor Roosevel were despised in some quarters in those days; the mind-set is infinitely worse today. Where are we going with this “bitter-end” politics that Keillor describes? It ought to be disturbing to all Americans, Republicans and Democrats alike.
Sadly, we have a President who believes that Democracy is anything his Vice President, Attorney General or Secretary of Defense tell him it is; he is the most incurious, anti-intellectual President since Warren Harding. What a tragedy for this nation, and for the world.
Posted by Stu on Aug 30, 2004 at 5:29 PM
Whenever I think of all the damage done to our nation and its standing in the world by the occupiers of our government, I just want to cry.
Posted by Jocelyn Miner on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:00 PM
Ah, yes, the party of emotion. It can be such fun when laughs are all that are at stake.
If you’re alive to laugh, and the Mullahs allow it.
Posted by Dan S on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:19 PM
Well said Mr. K
Might I add this of my own?
Here we go again!
Well here we go, kids, it’s that time again! It’s time to play “Lets Bullshit the Electorate” the family fun game that can be played by young and old alike. Brought to you this year by the folks at Enron, Halliburton, Brown and Root and the good folks at Raytheon where “We help you blow up things, all right!”
And Hey!! Lets not forget the guys that made the last four years possible, the good folks of the G.O.P. Lets give ‘em all a big hand!! And speaking of big hands, where would we be today without the big hand the Supreme Court and Florida’s own Governor Jeb Bush gave our winner in 2000’s contest. Come on, let’s give ‘em a big round of applause!!
As you know this is a special game that only gets played every four years. It’s the game where corporate America and the residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue try their best to pull the wool over the eyes of the voting public in an attempt to retain control of the much coveted “Reins of Power” for another four years.
The winner of the contest is awarded an all expense paid, all you can eat seat at the public trough for his family and closest friends generously provided by …. (Drum roll please) that’s right - you, the American taxpayer! That’s four years complete with luxury accommodations in four star suites around the world and free unlimited executive air transportation to destinations of his choosing.
Sound too good to be true? Well that’s not all, nothing’s too good for our commander and thief so how about the ability to double his own well deserved salary and as an added bonus he will receive the powers of “executive privilege” to help him through those delicate times when full disclosure and transparency might be inconvenient all that coupled with immunity from prosecution from a long list of crimes should make that four years a time to remember.
And for the year 2004 George Bush and his carefully chosen team of movers and shakers and image makers are hard at work chasing photo ops and sound bites designed specifically to sway your vote. All that combined with spun facts, half truths, out right lies and the biggest war chest of any incumbent President in history, should provide us with the most entertaining election day ever!! Will it be a “Slam Dunk”? Or will it be close down to the wire ? That’s up to you and me folks, when the time comes take the time to take your turn and vote.
Keith Hupp
Chugiak
Ak.
Posted by Keith Hupp on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:25 PM
Ack. I’m gonna be sick. Imagine a world w/ Al Gore at the helm on 9/11. We’d still be debating economic sanctions on the Taliban.
Thank God for George Bush.
Posted by Rich on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:30 PM
Ah yes I am soooo afraid Dan S. I’m sorry but I lost my fear the first time I was shot at in real combat. Ever since then it just really makes me angry. If you wish to be scared go ahead it is your right but don’t bother me with your closet fears. I am too busy living my life. That’s what the rest of you should be doing also. Your chanes are better to be drafted and die in combat that to ever have a terrorist do you any bodily harm.
I traveled to Hong Kong on the first day of this illegal and immoral war and then on to the Philippines and returned 10 days later. My only fear was that the boders of the US would be closed to foreign travel. It was also during the SARS epidemic. Guess what?? Didn’t die from that either. Maybe I just trust to much in GOD to be scared. Oh wait, doesn’t Bush have a person pipeline to HIM?
Don’t understand why so many scared republicans on this thread. Isn’t there a venue closer to your political bent than this? Shouldn’t you all be watching your Nero on TV?
Posted by Lyle Shargent on Aug 30, 2004 at 6:38 PM
As always, Garrison Keillor (immensely enjoyed your appearance at the Kerry rally in Tacoma, WA, on Saturday, August 28th, by the way - beautiful harmonizing on your part as you led the crowd in singing ALL the verses of “America the Beautiful” - which should be our official national anthem, if you ask me…) AHEM! As I was saying, Garrison Keillor is right on target from start to finish. No big surprise there.
But I tell you this. As surely as the sun will come up the day after November 2, 2004, if George W. Bush wins this presidential election, this country (and indeed the entire world) is absolutely, inevitably bound for Revolution - and not merely late ‘60s/early ‘70s social revolution, but real, 1789 French Revolution, 1776 American Revolution, real 1917 Russian Revolution. A government such as that which we are experiencing now, and such as that which Garrison so frighteningly foresees here, cannot, will not stand. There will be blood in the streets as we take our country back; if not, prepare yourselves for the Second Coming - of Germany in the 1930s. If ever there were a time to study Western Hemisphere History over the past 250 years, this is it. Odd, isn’t it? In our situation in 2004 America, those who do *not* ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
And believe me - I am no Marxist, foaming-at-the mouth-leftist radical. I am a classic liberal Democrat. If Bush & Co. win in November, I will be girding my loins and preparing for the struggle and, yes, the bloodshed that will surely be to come. This savage and dangerous attempt at world dominance and tyranny can not stand - no more now than it did when the Roman Empire fell; no more now than it did in early 19th-century Europe during the scourge of the Napoleonic wars; no more now than it did during the wild rampage of the German-Italian-Japanese Axis of World War II.
Yet, this can all be avoided. Let us all hope, with all our hearts and all our minds and all our faith and all our strength, that what I have predicted above does not come to pass. It is actually quite simple: either John Kerry (or, for that matter, you, me, my dog, ANYone but “Dubya”), is elected in November 2004, or chaos, bedlam, yes, perhaps even armageddon, will, as sure as the sun rises, happen sooner than any of us can possibly imagine.
Posted by Steve Rodgers on Aug 30, 2004 at 7:30 PM
What exactly is the difference between a White House “controlled” by Halliburton, et al and one controlled by the trial lawyers? Last time I checked, the lawyers had forced over 100 real companies into bankruptcy over bogus claims and science involving implants, asbestos, and a myriad of other opportune targets - that’s what we’ll get with Kerry/Edwards occupying 1600 Penn Ave - please tell me how good that will be….......
Posted by Bob on Aug 30, 2004 at 7:35 PM
Garrison, Now I love you more than ever. Thank you for your profound words and insights.
Posted by Deborah on Aug 30, 2004 at 7:35 PM
Garrison,
My turds don’t shine, even in the moonlight. What sort of turds did you have in mind when you came up with that phrase? Or is that a Minnisotan colloqialism?
Regards,
FD
Posted by Felis Domesticus on Aug 30, 2004 at 8:10 PM
I find Garrison Keillor’s ignorance of Ike amusing. Ike funded the Interstate Highway System for military purposes.
After seeing the autobahns of Hitler’s Germany and knowing the asset those highways were to the Germans (for blitzkriegs and also to supply a two front war), Ike decided to fund and build the US interstate.
Posted by Drew M on Aug 30, 2004 at 8:24 PM
Nice bunch of insults. I love it when Democrats ask me “what happened to my party” ...as if they care.
Typical liberal, communist hate speech.
Congrats :)
Posted by Peter on Aug 30, 2004 at 9:07 PM
Is this why Republicans have embraced the gun? I doubt the troops will fire on angry Americans , but they won’t have to. All our nut-case friends on the right will take care of things (apologies to gun-nuts on the left, if any).
Protestors in New York, listen up. Save your powder for a future use. Continue being sweetness and light, the better to sooth an ugly world.
Posted by Jim Slark on Aug 30, 2004 at 9:34 PM
...and John Kerry???? Oh please Garrison, lead us through the bombing of Lake Wobegon after one of your shows….the Democrats never have been able to be honest about anything, until they get caught in their lies and even then there are no condemnations…just bigger book sales….eight years in command and where were the critcal changes in the environment…labor…race….sex in the work place…all talk…all blame game and nothing done…it’s almost like a weekend radio variety show,hosted my a myopic bitter mid-westener, who’s stuck in the Lutheran “I’m right your wrong syndrome”....As an independent environmental activist I have seen how the Democrats in my community actively destroyed the open space and public lands in our city and have run our state into economic and environmental ruin! So much for the B.S. about Republicans…. I guess I have finally seen the man behind the curtain…I wish I hadn’t.
Eric
Posted by Eric on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:12 PM
Thank you, Garrison for a dose of medicine to help keep me sane. You speak of so many issues that are virtually ignored by the press and by the general population that I still struggle with the reality that, by and large, Americans are dopey sheep that simply live off of their spiralling consumerism and debt and receive their brainfood via TV. For the first time in my life, I can understand how the Civil War came about, only this time I feel I’m from the North, and Lincoln’s old party now represents the aristocracy and the Deep South. After over three years of this administration’s behavior, I still see no recongnition of what’s going on from those devoted followers of Bush. I really can’t imagine what will bring humanity and humility back to the table. Well, actually I can: years of depression/recession cycles and a battering of our national pride, much like the Germans endured for their duplicity in the events of the 30s and 40s.
Posted by Ben on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:27 PM
Thank you for speaking your mind, Mr. Keeler. You are my hero.
Posted by Paula Goodman on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:44 PM
Just one more afterthought… Garrison: It may seem amazing for so many people that anyone could even think of voting for this fellow, by far the worse prezdint we have ever had, a fellow who within a few short years has bankrupted the country, set us in a state of permanent war against shadows he and his cabinet have created, has appealed to everything America is at its darkest, craven, narrow-minded, rigid and prehensile to boot. Strange, though, that people wonder where the GOP of yore and Ike has gone. Well, I believe the sedate and yet booming, fairly peaceful Fifties is not the aim of the GOP these days, and hasn’t been since the reign of Reagan, who is the one who introduced us to greed, power, to using resources as we please, and to wage war for economic benefit and be proud of it as well. These are the Republicans who would like to roll back the progress made not since Ike, but since people like Roosevelt, who actually turned America into a respected and appreciated world power. For current GOP policy, I think you’ll have to go back to the 1880s or somewhere back then. These are carpetbaggers, not politicians. Their idea is to replace social security with some vague notion of family values couched in allegedly Christian terms, the religion of Pat Robertson, for example, who made a mint soaking the yokels, and forgive me if anyone is insulted, but that is a fact. But as PT Barnum put it, there’s one born every day. Suckers who refuse to use their god-given brains to figure out what a child of ten could: The Prezdint—and his entourage of carpetbaggers—is a complete and utter fraud. Period. But I really liked your piece Garrison. Here in Europe I have given up “defending” the USA, since there is hardly anything to defend. But the little treasures left are people like you, Michael Moore, Greg Palast, Curtis White and many others. Keep at it.
Posted by Marton on Aug 31, 2004 at 12:01 AM
1. Two of the US’s political parties voted in majority to pass the “Patriot Act”.
2. Two of the US’s political parties voted in majority to allow George Jr. to attack Iraq.
These two parties acted, and are acting, in unison for one goal: Re-election.
HAD THESE ‘REPRESETATIVES’(i pray they really don’t anymore) BEEN ACTING FOR YOUR GOOD THEY SHOULDN’T HAVE PASSED EITHER ONE OF THESE.
Both of those represented a MASSIVE FAILURE on the part of the elected officals in the US.
Ladies and Gentleman, years of accepting that ‘My Party is right’ by pure name sake, has led us here.
THIS FAILURE IS AS MUCH OUR FAULTS AS IT IS THE GREEDY ELITES WHO SPEND YEARS TRAVELING THE NATION AND THE WORLD ON OUR DOLLARS SO THEY CAN FIND RE-ELECTION.
The only solution would seem an increased public awareness/action in its governing.
WE NEED CREATIVITY GARRISON. THE TIME TO BE PARTISIAN TO MULE OR ELEPHANT IS PAST.
We must be partisian to the Human.
GOD FORGIVE AND HELP US ALL.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another,..., a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States…
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry, Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery,Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott, William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris, Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark, Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross, Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean, Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton, George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton, William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn, Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton, Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
Posted by HE, MAYBE THEY? on Aug 31, 2004 at 1:22 AM
Dear Mr. Keillor, I have thoroughly enjoyed your book which expands on the topic of this article (“Homegrown Democrat”) and want to join those who have issued their hearty “amens” on your treatment of the topic here. You have certainly issued an accurate and scathing indictment—all the more scathing for how calmly and reasonably you put it—and summary of how the “Grand Ol’ Party” has morphed into the GANGRENOUS OLD PRICKS. TRUE Republicans everywhere should hang their heads in shame and disavow themselves from this disgusting fiasco of fratboy sandbox bullies.
And you? You, my dear Mr. Keillor, with your nail-on-the-head realism and your talent for a well-turned phrase that carries its own weight without tooting its own horn, should do more writing in this vein. God bless you.
Oh and by the way, that Andrew Oedipus (or whatever) who posted on page one? That’s exactly the kind of voice this nation does NOT need, ever again. We have all been in middle school once. Now that we have escaped to the adult world we want to make it the safe place our children can hope to escape to as well at the magical age of 18 or 21—a place free from harrumphing sandbox bullies who shove people into lockers and kick their books out of their hands at random because they are compensating for a lack of brain, spirit, and most of all: heart.
Posted by Rynne on Aug 31, 2004 at 4:32 AM
Now, why can’t I write like that?. I’m afraid that Mr. Keillor is far too articulate for the Shrub-loving lemmings. Poor them.
Posted by ralph on Aug 31, 2004 at 5:24 AM
It’s amazing how my view of someone I consider to be the greatest writer and comic of the last decade i.e. Keillor - seems go down the toliet when they get involved in politics. There hasn’t been a good Lake Woebegon program in years, I guess he spends too much time on mindless dribble like the above now days.
Posted by Rich on Aug 31, 2004 at 6:06 AM
“Greatest President since WWII…”??
How could anyone say that with any confidence that they were being even remotely sincere?
Sadly, however, had 9/11 not happened, George W. Bush would not have had the sense to be even a care taker president. Instead, he and his handlers, the most virulent strain of idealogue conservatives who wear god on their sleave and have a blind trust in their hearts, would have had little to distract us from their actions. Instead, maybe they would have been in the spotlight when they rolled back government regulations as Bush did in Texas by bringing around tort reform that makes companies virtually untouchable when it comes to lawsuits from employees or citizens injured or killed by their products.
The Laughable No Child Left Behind, underfunded by $27 billion, is the monstrous progeny of Texas based school reform that saw many, many schools throw students off their rolls, (through dropouts, etc.) so it would appear as though grade averages were on the way up. Texas, which ranks 50th overall in schooling, is now the model for the rest of the country.
These Republicans, this President, the one who didn’t want a Department of Homeland Security until outside pressure forced them to. Who didn’t want a 9/11 comission until public outcry demanded it. This party, who sent us into a war against a small nation led by a bully under the guise of weapons of mass terror and fear, all because of a uniform breach of 1 UN resolution, whereas, for example, Israel in breach of no less than 30 similar resolutions of similar and varied nature. We haven’t invaded Insrael yet.
“Yahoo!!” is not a foreign policy.
Every time Tom Ridge gets a wild hare and yellls “Charge!” the Fear-o-Meter goes up a color over some make-believe and out of date little snippet of intelligence that Japanese, armed with Katanas and gas bombs of wasabi green mustard, are invading Deluth. We are now a fearful nation that is feared around the world.
The tax cuts that would benefit all have now cost my wife and me nearly $30,000. She has retired and with it, no medical insurance. Our monthly co-pay for our various medications was $60, it’s now nearly $400. How are we better off than we were 3 years ago? I don’t mind paying taxes, especially when they go to help real people with real problems, but when my money evaporates so every millionare can get $90,000, I become upset.
A buried report recently stated that almost $9 billion has gone missing in Iraq. Haliburton under Cheney’s watch overstated its earnings by nearly 50% and now can’t or won’t account for over a billion dollars paid to them by the US Military for services never rendered. This war has cost $200 billion already, but the cost in lives of American servicemen and women, in Iraqi civilians, WHO HAVE DONE NOTHING TO US, is much, much greater.
Iraq. Iraq was never a threat to the United States. We ignored Ritter and Blix and just about everyone else who said so in favor of drawings, DRAWINGS, of supposed mobile chemical laboratories. Satellite photos, we were told, were chemical weapons plants and those fire trucks were decontamination trucks. Unmanned aerial planes were in reality spit and bailing wire models. And Iraq was linked to Al Queda, less closely, however, than you were linked to the kid behind the counter at the Starbucks you went to this morning.
God Bless America. Let’s hope so, because this wash-out from the Air National Guard and C student who can barely read, and his band born-again fascists are doing everything in their power to see that it’s otherwise. Who act as though we don’t live in a world with other countries and other people, because they don’t matter anyway. Who scream foul when their plans go awry, who lie about a real Viet Nam veteran while taking benefits away from current vets. And hacks like Limbaugh, Savage, and O’Reilly tout their praises and through mud in faces of those who tell Caesar that the Empire is failing.
Posted by Mark Hills on Aug 31, 2004 at 6:08 AM
Garrison Kiellor is mad. Democrats and all true patriots need to get MAD AS HELL. Bill Clinton performed his job with a “special prosecutor” on his back for 7 years, too bad no such oversight exists for Bush Jr.
Ashcroft Comments on Anti-Terror Policy - featuring Ashcroft’s refusal to confirm or deny the existence of memos from Bush directing the Justice Department to study the precedent and constitutional limitations, or lack thereof, regarding methods of torture as a legal and viable method of interrogation is the single most alarming development from the Bush administration, or any other, that I know of. It is abhorrent and beyond belief to me that the president of the free world could ever have even contemplated such a practice. And, apparently, implemented its use.
And they tried to impeach Clinton for getting oral sex.
We’re in real trouble as a country and more people better wake up and get MAD AS HELL. NOW.
Posted by Eric Sales on Aug 31, 2004 at 6:09 AM
Thanks. That was a great read.
Posted by Anonymous Voter on Aug 31, 2004 at 6:24 AM
Quit picking on President Bush! Why is everybody so mean? Mr. Oplas (above) is a visionary just like our president! We had to invade Iraq because we had to invade Iraq! Something had to be done and that was something so we had to do it! The economy is doing great because President Bush says it is doing great and he would never lie! We are on the march! We are safer under this president because he has made us safer, although we are and always will be in grave danger! He is a great president because every morning when she wakes him up Condoleeza Rice whispers in his ear that he is a great president and she always tells the truth! President Bush believes what he says and says what he says and does what he’s told! And besides John Kerry is French.
Posted by pasquino on Aug 31, 2004 at 6:34 AM
yesss, the evil republicans and their allies the Joooooos are taking over not just the US but the world, we must stop them, yessss.
Posted by mark-o on Aug 31, 2004 at 6:54 AM
Back to you, G. van den Bosch – First off, since you insist on calling me by my first name, how about providing yours?
Sorry you find it so difficult to have a dialog. If you feel I’m speaking past you, I’d ask that you take genuine responsibility for that. I’ve paid very careful attention to your statements and tried to address them very specifically with questions to establish clarity, and with statements of my own in response to yours. I don’t know you and you don’t know me, so all we have to go on is our statements here and now, to each other. I would however appreciate it very much if you would avoid twisting my statements. You have done this in a number of cases and then launched into a series of ‘answers’ which do a good job of making your point, but are based on a distorted recap of what I have said. Whether or not this is deliberate, I have no way of knowing.
Once again you condescend to me and complain when I respond in kind. I will quote:
“…we simply fill in the blanks based on what we see in the media or hear spoken by our mates.” Are you speaking of yourself because surely you have no basis upon which to say this in regard to me. As you say, you don’t know me.
In regard to the popular notion in some quarters that certain Christian sects are being persecuted in America – this is such absolute nonsense. To use your logic regarding the poor: compared to what and where? It is simply not true. The political party that represents the religious right currently controls all major levers of power in this country. I will freely admit that I am sick to death of hearing the two most pandered-to groups in this country, the rich and the religious, whining about how everybody is picking on them. Sun Myung Moon, who embodies both these groups, currently hosted an event in a government owned building in D.C. where, with the assistance of members of the US Congress crowned himself and his wife the direct representatives of God, King and Queen of Peace, and declared that he is essentially the second coming of Christ. I don’t know how you can know this and not vomit.
In re the term “Bible Thumper” – there are many people in this country who identify themselves this way with pride. Perhaps it is the same as blacks who call each other niggers. I have no idea and think it’s a side issue of little significance.
But let’s not get off our point-by-point:
1. I used the term ‘outed’ because in fact you did not immediately and clearly identify yourself as a Christian, but instead couched your remarks as one seeking moral clarity. Of course, that is code that most of us here understand, hence my effort to draw you out into an open and clear discussion of values, which is what this is about. Further, you did say that you were looking to your leaders for moral clarity. Only now do you say that you are looking for leaders who agree with your morals. Fair enough, but not what you originally said, distractions notwithstanding.
2. I am not stereotyping you. If anything, you are doing that to yourself by identifying with the Republican Party and their clearly stated and adopted platform, their actions and policies. There is obviously a place where your religious principles intersect with your political decisions, and that is what is under discussion from my side at any rate.
3. OK, you’re the expert on Head Start and you are convinced that the annihilation of the tattered shards of the public safety net is not the ultimate goal of the Republican Party. Again, read the non-religious neocons that are openly writing about this subject and their goals for this country in this regard. Set aside your personal, idiosyncratic experiences with your fellow employees, etc. and get at the policy goals of your adopted Party.
4. See #3.
5. Our local Salvation Army is begging for additional contributions to close a $70K gap in their fiscal year budget, which ends in 30 days, due to ballooning demand in the community. I live in a quite prosperous area. United Way – same problem. The food pantries are frantic for contributions to keep up with demand. The homeless shelters are turning people away, especially in the depths of winter. People are living in their cars. What do you want – affidavits from the selfless souls who run these charities, many of them church based?
6. OK, OK,OK. Everything is relative. Sheesh. Can we agree that we’ll use the federal government standard to define poverty in America, or shall we use whatever passes for that in Beijing or Bombay? This is what I mean about the ‘gotcha’ crap.
7. Don’t throw it back on me – I’m not an idiot and I know very well when someone is being condescending. I absolutely did intend to be condescending in response as I am willing to conduct this dialog on whatever terms you favor – up to a point.
8. So nice that you don’t identify as a Libertarian. How self-serving. It’s OK for you to be assisted by the government, but not others who unlike you don’t deserve assistance for some unknown reason.
9. Again, please don’t twist my words. I did not say that the situations in Sudan or Iraq were silly. I said that your insertion of those issues into the discussion was silly, by which I meant ‘irrelevant in the context,’ ‘diversionary,’ an unnecessary sidetrack. There is a difference. And by the way I wish you would not introduce the appalling suffering of others simply to divert the discussion and make a show of piety.
10. All I have asked since the beginning of this dialog is for you and other Republicans to examine the platform, policies, and actual track record of the party you support. If you agree with the real world behavior and consequences embodied therein, then indeed you should vote for those party members to represent you. Those of us who oppose the Bush regime have done so and we reject those policies. Unfortunately, we shall have to live with the consequences and soldier on.
If you’ve read all the posts on this board it is clear that there are some still fighting the Civil, World and Viet Nam Wars. I think we know plenty about each other, which is why people like Garrison Keillor, Bruce Sprinsteen, and millions of others who have stayed on the sidelines are entering the political arena and making their voices heard.
We cannot go back to Lake Wobegone, but the way forward offers plenty of opportunities to work for peace, healing and an end to the idea that we can solve our problems through violence and division. Peace and justice have never been found at the business end of a weapon, as history clearly shows.
Finally, I am not angry with you. I am taking the time to engage with you in this public forum because I think you represent the thoughts and feelings of many who support the current regime. You’ve been very open, and I appreciate that as I’m sure many do. Clearly you are doing the best you can with what you have to work with, as are we all.
Posted by Joanne Roush on Aug 31, 2004 at 6:54 AM
Can an educated intelligent person be stupid or dumb at the same time? You bet they can. Don’t believe it just take a look around you the next time you are in your car driving somewhere and see all the intelligent educated people doing stupid dumb things like not wearing their seat belt or running through a red light. Happens everyday everywhere.
Can an educated intelligent person be a republican at the same time? Being a republican and supporting bush is just like doing any other stupid or dumb thing. These people know the facts and they still support that idiot.
I for one am tired of all the democrats always being so concerned with the feelings, the well being, and the needs of these republicans.
It’s time for us democrats to stop being so nice. Hell do you think they are nice? No they are not. They don’t give a rats ass about what we think.
Anyone who supports bush is an idiot and stupid. Plain and simple and it’s time to start calling them for what they are.
Any educated intelligent person who at the same time supports bush is a stupid idiot. Facts don’t lie. They cannot support their position with facts as evidenced by their retoric. They have only faith to their false gods. They have serious mental problems or they are just plain greedy or both. They lives are hollow and their souls are weak. They want a fight and it’s time to give them one. We cannot win with our right and just ideas we must get down and dirty first to earn the right to have our ideas take priority.
Americans have done this in the past and we will do this again. They will not win. This is our country. The time for keeping the soft gloves on has passed and it is now time to come out swinging. We can return to the intelligent approach after we have restored order.
Cae Sera Sera.
To the guy who said that this kind of language goes nowhere with his relatives I say what has the other approach brought forth?
Uh ha, exactly. Hey if you don’t want to hear the truth then get the hell out of the way. When you’re wrong I am sorry I will tell you in plain english and if that makes you cry then I am so sorry but that is life babes.
The nice soft approach only works when you have someone who is willing to compromise and listen. Our country has been built on compromise and these people are trying to take that away from us. Some things (as it turns out) cannot be compromised on (i.e. slavery, the constitution, one party rule, illegal war, freedom, equality). Get over it republicans, you are wrong and we are going to fix it(again).
I do not want a country that has it’s own citizens killing each other over ideology or religious beliefs. This would not be America. Just because they cannot see what it is that they are being led to does not mean that we must follow. The people who have all the money do not care about them. They are just puppets to the powers. When the powers decide that they are no longer of any need, they will be cast aside. They are blind to their own fate.
Educated, intelligent, stupid and dumb all at the same time.
Garrison is right, time to fight for our country.
Posted by JIMBOY on Aug 31, 2004 at 7:00 AM
Thanks, Garrison and In These Times. I read this Tuesday 8/31, the morning after the first night of the GOP convention, and it is EXACTLY what I needed as an antidote to the GOP’s shameful passive-agressive rhetoric.
It’s a damn shame my vote (as an Idahoan) won’t count Nov. 2, but I will do all I can to help motivate swing-state voters to get rid of Bush-Cheney. Swing-state voters, you are voting for those of us in the red states who have no voice, so please don’t let us down.
Posted by Julie in Idaho on Aug 31, 2004 at 7:03 AM
When I was kid I walked home from school everyday. It was a nice, safe neighborhood. One afternoon I met an elderly German woman who had come to America to live with her daughter. It was the beginning of many pleasant afternoons I spent chatting with her. Being a southern white boy, I knew a little bit about what it means to be part of the losing side in a war. So even though I, like most boys at that time, was fascinated by WWII (Daddy’s war, second only to great-granddaddy’s war)I treaded softly and didn’t ask her about it for the longest time.
One day I finally let slip a bad word about Hitler. This dear woman corrected me smartly. It wasn’t Hitler who was at fault she said. It was his advisors; Goerring, Goebbels and Himmler, they were responsible.
Like I said, I grew up knowing a little bit about what it means to be a part of a defeated people. I knew many folks who’d be quick to tell you that slavery hadn’t been as bad as it was made out. Such folks, including ones who loved and cherished me as a child and who I loved in return, prefered to meditate upon the bond between Mammy and Scarlett rather than the bondage of the field slaves.
As Human beings we like to think of the monsters of our history as exactly that. A separate species with which we have no connection other than the catastrophies that they visited upon humanity. This is a comforting lie.
The truth is that the Hitlers of this world are all too human. That is the secret of their power. They know human frailty and fallibility intimately. So we have the technique of the big lie, the cynical and manipulative drive to war and conquest, the dictatorial elevation of an elite, whether national and/or economic, over all other sections of humanity. The outcome is always blood and more blood.
None of this is possible without the tacit consent of a great mass of everyday folk. If Hitler hadn’t appealed to such people he’d be a footnote in German history. That much of this amounted to hoodwinking otherwise well meaning folk is clear, unless we want to pretend otherwise.
I can understand why people object to being compared to Nazis, what sane person wouldn’t? The ugly truth is that the nazis and their supporters were as human as the rest of us and any mistake that one group of humans makes, others can make as well. An error uncorrected becomes a crime. It is not hatred that compels such comparisons but a recognition of our common peril.
Thank you Garrison, for speaking up.
Posted by W.B. Reeves on Aug 31, 2004 at 7:09 AM
Mark Twain lives: For a free e copy of “The Ballad of Sonny Warbucks, an Unbush Ambush Anti poem for the Post Millennium” please write to Jim Mall at <mall.enteract@rcn.com> This will also get you on the mailing list of “The Dick Times: News that Bites”, an in-line, no- attachment news letter which satirizes the Bushmen.
Posted by Jim Mall on Aug 31, 2004 at 7:10 AM
Ooops, wanted to mention on my comment that if you DO live in a red state, you might enjoy my blog at www.redstaterebels.com. Thanks, and fight on.
Posted by Julie in Idaho on Aug 31, 2004 at 7:12 AM
Having first heard The Prarie Home Companion while driving north to admire the autumn trees in Good Ol’ Minnesota (with a gay Republican behind the wheel no less…) so many years ago, I am, and will be, forever grateful to you Garrison for your ‘touch.’
Keep speaking out - don’t be shy…
Posted by Jimbo on Aug 31, 2004 at 7:57 AM
Ever think about what happened to other great civilizations to make them fail? I look at Iraq, which at one time in history, was the center of math and science. A real bastion of brilliance. As fanatics and fundamentalist with money took over, the “middle class” became uneducated and poor. Powerless, and dejected, the majority of the people are forced to live lives imposed on them by fundamentalist. Isn’t the Republican Party doing the same thing to us? Look at their behavior in New York this week. They have censored what shows “ADULTS” can attend. They spy on our library activities and they demand that all Americans HATE other Americans because of how they are born.
While some middle class Americans think this is great - what they see as really “pay back” to all those money-leeching scum buckets who take their tax dollars, Bush is not their friend and as soon as he uses them for his political (and Jerry Falwell’s and Pat Robinsons profits), he will discard them like used Kleenex!
Thanks, Garrison, for having some big ones. You will not find any in the Bush controlled media.
Posted by Anthony Shiman on Aug 31, 2004 at 8:47 AM
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
G. - You ask us to be more introspective, to stop stereotyping Republicans, to temper our comments with love. You tell us you used to be a Democrat, but you don’t tell us why you are now a Republican, though it is implied that this has something to do with your religion. (If I’ve guessed wrong about that, forgive me.)
You are correct that Republicans embody as much diversity as those in the opposing camp. However, if you choose to identify yourself as a Republican, you will be identified with your party’s position on the issues that have been under discussion here. If you do not personally support these positions, then say so and tell us which are the ones with which you disagree.
I know it’s unpleasant for Republicans to confront their own public image when they step outside the confines of their group. I have seen this in my canvassing for Kerry. The anger of ex-Republicans is not with Clinton or Liberals or Kerry - it’s with their former party and its current leadership. They feel, evidently, even more betrayed than your garden variety liberal, as indeed they should.
You sound as if you are a pricipled person who has tried to live a life in line with his beliefs, and you have been willing to make financial sacrifices to do so. It seems that you will vote for a President who speaks to your principles, even though his actions and leadership may in fact utterly contravene those same ideals. That is very difficult for many of us to understand, thus the admittedly insulting term of “Kool-Aid Drinker.”
If you can explain how the actions of this administration fit with your world view, or how you have changed your world view to reconcile it with the world as we now see it under the current leadership, I’m sure many would be as fascinated as I to read that.
For the sake of mutual understanding, tell us more. Tell us why. Tell us how not to be afraid of you and for you and your Party.
Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to feel a Christian obligation toward the poor? No—what he really means is that he thinks that Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to think that it is acceptable to use the power of the United States federal government, which includes the power to put you in jail for not complying with the tax code, to continue to redistribute income from those that earn a lot by virtue of their talents, skills, abilities and hard work, to those that don’t earn a lot.
To follow up on my previous comments—why does a Christian obligation to the poor translate into (increasingly) progressive income tax rates? I think that a Christian obligation to the poor is a private matter, not a matter for income redistribution through the federal tax code.
Quick note to Joanne Roush: go back to the beginning of Garrison’s article, then look at the “Author Bio” box down the right column. This essay is from Garrison’s new book, “Homegrown Democrat”. You might be overdue for an Emily Latella moment, n’est pas?
The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few is the death knell of democracy? I don’t know enough about history to say if this is true or not, however I suspect that if this has happened it is because the democracy was in name only and there was corruption at the top. This “concentration of wealth” arguement is not valid justification for (increasingly) progressive income taxation.
Main problem is that we need a 2ns party let alone a 3rd party. Democrats are almost same as republicans in many ways with the exception of few femine,gay and in favour of evil trial lawyers. Howard dean was thrown out and Clintonism is there. Kerry is almost same, rather more stupid as compared to W. Pity pity pity.
He should have chosedn Ghephard as running mate rather than Edwards and another stupidity that he went after McCain without making sure that he would say yes.
One last comment—“...patriotism shouldn’t prevent people from asking hard questions of the man who was purportedly in charge of national security at the time”? I agree, however using the word “purportedly” is a cheap shot at President Bush and Republicans. Which Party’s president was in office when 1) the first WTC bombing happened, 2) American embassies in Africa were blown up and 3) the USS Cole was bombed? I don’t think Democrats should get into discussions about “purportedly” being in charge of National Security. Their record as a party is not good in this regard.
Richard Nixon felt a “Christian obligation?” Personally, it sickens me that he had the gall to call himself a Quaker. The man was a criminal. He should have been sharing a prison cell with Ronald Reagan!
Note to Stephanie Jacobs—with all due respect, and this comment comes in full acknowledgement of Watergate and Iran-Contra, yelling that Nixon and Reagan should have shared a prison cell doesn’t help anyone. I could yell that Clinton should have been in there with them, but this doens’t help anyone either. What we need is substantive debate on the important issues facing our country, like what we’re going to do about Social Security and Medicare, and how to deal with the fact that so many around the world want to do us harm.
I can’t help myself—this is too easy—is it not ironic that, in an article slamming Republicans, Keillor lauds Eisenhower for declining to get involved in Vietnam, when it was two Democrats—Kennedy and Johnson—who DID us involved in Vietnam? And—more irony—it was the Republican Nixon who oversaw the end of the war.
One more thing—enough with the (implied) analogies between Vietnam and Iraq. There are many many differences, but the most important is this: Republican Bush fought the Iraq war to win and did, while Democrat Johnson fought the Vietnam war with no plan to win other than really wanting to and thus lost. Oh yeah—one more important, and related difference—American casualty total in Iraq: under 1,000, American casualty in Vietnam: 50,000.
I acknowledge that the jury is still out on post-war Iraq, but let’s stop equating the Iraq war and Vietnam war.
Thank you, Garrison Keillor; in particular, thank you for the last paragraph. It gives me courage to speak out, when I am much more comfortable not speaking out.
I wish a Prary Home Companion could do a skit about this! It is profoundly serious. You, as you often have, hit the nail on the head. The problem supercedes the Presidency. It must be a message that voters send out at all levels of legislation and judiciary. The real issue is letting folks know that THEY HAVE BEEN HAD! We need to get the apathetic angry enough to vote.
Jim Tuffield, San Diego
Thank you, thank you, Mr. Keillor for having the courage to write this and helping me dredge up the courage to speak up in my own small universe. Perhaps if enough of us do so, we will be successful in removing the current administration from office.
While I have only read a few posts here, I have still to read an argument from anyone that amounts to anything more than “I hate Geroge Bush and all Republicans because they’re bad people”.
To answer Justin Hornburg’s belief that it was two Democratic President’s Kennedy and Johnson that got us into the Viet Nam quagmire let me state that it was in fact a direct result of the Marshall Plan which began in the days after the conclusion of WWII. “In 1949 Truman and Acheson institued a program of direct U.S. Military and economic aid to the French effort in Indochina. Eisenhower and Dulles made the war even more evidently an American cause. Whereas under Truman the French still bore the bulk of the war costs, eisenhower upped both the share of the costs (to 80%) and the volume of Washington rhetoric. Eisenhower also authorized the dispatch of U.S. ground crews when AParis said it could not fulfill it’s own airpower requirements. Most significantly, when France decided to withdraw militarily from Indiochina in 1955, Eisenhower oprdered American advisors to take their place.” This is fronm page 279 of THE IRONY OF VIETNAM: THE SYSTEM WORKED written in 1979 by Gelb and Betts of the Brookings Institute.
Anyone that would like a concise and complete history of what happened and why we were involved in South East Asia in that period will find the answers in this book. My qualifications: I was an 11B40 and for those like Mr. Bush who have no knowledge of what that means, simply stated, I was a Lightweapons Infantryman in Viet Nam from April 1967 to April 1968. I earned the princely sum of .23 1/2 per hour 24/7 to kill the enemy as identified by my governments. In the ensuing years I have read over 400 books on Viet Nam trying to figure out what I was a part of and what happened to me because of it.
All I ask is that people check your facts before you make a statement that is untrue.
To Lyle Shargent—I defer to your obviously superior knowledge of the history of Vietnam. It was the author of the article (Keillor) who wrote that Eisenhower “... declined to rescue the French colonial army in Vietnam ...” This statement by the author would appear to be in contradiction to what you believe to be the truth. It is interesting that the author is falsely building up past Republicans expressly for the purpose of tearing down current ones.
I thank you for your comment and the considerate way in which you made it.
Garrison Keillor is longing for the good old days when, for over forty years of being the minority party in the House and Senate, Republicans were content to eat the table scraps of their Democrat superiors. They were indeed “token Republicans”. As long as they stood in front of the cameras and smiled and said nice things about Democrat legislation, Republicans might hope to sit in on a committee hearing or two, perhaps get invited to a golf outing once in a while. It wasn’t a bad gig, really. Republicans didn’t have to have any ideas of their own (let alone fight for them), or, God forbid,(*gasp) be “confrontational”. They only had to be grateful and blissfully “bipartisan”.
But at some point (oh, probably in Bill Clinton’s first term) something went terribly wrong in the political culture of our society. I’m not sure if it was when Clinton announced that he was putting his wife (an unelected and unaccountable non-public figure beholdent to no one) in charge of socializing the American Health care system, or if it was the looming specter of higher and higher taxes (for those who actually pay them) to subsidize all of those wonderful social programs he though we all wanted.
Whatever the reason, American voters were given an alternative to the status quo and in 1994 elected a majority of Republicans to both the House and the Senate, AND THEY CONTINUE TO DO SO TO THIS DAY. So, it seems that Garrison Keillor doesn’t really have a problem with Republicans so much as Garrison Keillor has a problem with democracy and the choices of Americans. After all, Republicans have always been Republicans. It’s the American people that said “Enough!”.
We will all wait in breathless anticipation for Garrison Keillor’s next essay. Perhaps by then he will grow a spine and call the entire American electorate “racist hairy-backed fundamentalist bullies with Bibles” instead of merely alluding to it.
You must be all of 15 years old. Read more, please.
Justin thank you for your comments. One final thought on VN and your last posting it was in fact Congress that dictated to Eisenhower not to rescue the French as Dien Bien Phu. The leaders in Congress required a unilateral intervention consisting of American Allies of which none were to be found. Only later was America able to drum up a few allies from South East Asia to meet Congresses requirements. Thailand, Camobia, Laos, Australia not many countries who had troops to put in the field or monies to help offset the cost of the war. Does any of this sound vaguely familiar to the current situation. There are many parallels to Iraq as to be very disquieting.
Good point, Lyle. Again, your superior knowledge is obvious (and impressive).
As for Brad’s comment on Susan Dwightman’s post (at least I think his comment is in reaction to Dwightman’s post)—this is classic—Susan presents a reasoned argument and Brad’s reaction is to belittle her. I harken back to one of my prior posts—where is the substantive objection to Bush beyond “I hate him”?
Justin,
There are now several hundred posts on this thread, beginning on Thursday. They are all available for you to read, and I would really recommend that you do so, rather than reading a “few posts” and then drawing sweeping generalizations about the posters from your small sample.
Many of the posts are very cogent and well-written, and are not one-dimensional. A number of them (including my first one) are from people who have at one time or another identified themselves as Republicans but, for many reasons (including those articulated by Garrison), do not now so identify or at least now have decided not to vote for W in order to bring the Republican Party back toward its own center.
Unlike some of the posters, I have not given up completely on the Republican party. If it were not for Senators Snow, Collins, Chafee, Campbell, (sometimes) McCain and others (depending on the issue), the radical changes in our body politic that Bush’s handlers envisioned would have prevailed. And we would all be the worse for that.
So, again, take the time that it will take you to read what has gone before and then comment. Unlike Lyle, you don’t have to face live fire and then read 400 books to try to make sense of the madness that our foreign policy sometimes thrusts good Americans into. You can just spend a few hours reading and then thinking about what has come before in this thread. I do think you will learn something from that exercise, including that your own political colleagues have not hesitated to be dishonest, scatalogical and simplistic in their responses on this thread. Civil discourse, and resolute action based on principle—regardless of political persuasion—is what will get us out of our current mess. Fortunately, God equipped us with one mouth and two ears to aid that process.
And thanks, Lyle, for your service —then and now. Unlike the Swift Boat Apologists for Chickenhawk Draft-Dodgers, this Kerry supporter respects and is grateful for all veterans who put themselves in harm’s way. And like many posters on this thread, we believe that the best way we can support our troops who are in harm’s way tonight is to bring them home safely ... and soon.
Again good point Justin. One of the problems with opposing views. I do laud anyone with passion either side but in a respectful way please. No one listens when you are shouting at each other. Point counter-point that is the American way. That is one of the precious gems we are losing under the Patriot Act as it is written. When I have a Bill O’Reilly shouting at me to shut up and I have the Attorney General of my country telling toi watch what I say and think and do then I who have fought for freedom have a huge problem with people like that. When the President of my country tells me that I am either for him or against him I have a problem with that. It is my right to disagree and to state that disagreement as provided for me in the Constitution. I would as Mr. Bush to abide by what our founding fathers gave to us in the future to guarantee our freedoms.The Bill of Rights, the Constitution and Democracy are woth fighting and dying for and some us have fought for them.
You earlier asked about the Christian obligation of redistribution of wealth through progressive income tax and what you should be asking is if a person receives many benifits from a country based on its ability to provide the atmosphere in which said individual is able to amass a considerable fortune should that individual not be expected to share with his/her country some of their bounty? It really is not a part of any religious abligation but a political one.
One last note you stated that it took a Republican President to end the conflict in Viet Nam. This is true so far as you realize that Nixon led the war efforts for 7 of it’s 10 years. 1969 through the conclusion in April 30, 1975. Personally I do not want to see us inviolved in Iraq for 10 years.
I thank you for your kind consideration of all this.
To Bernie Ellis—thanks for your reasoned comments and good points. I will indeed take the time to read some of the other posts in this thread. You are right to ask me to not make judgements based on such a small sample.
I do not generally apologize for Republicans, but I felt that Keillor’s writing demonized Republicans with too broad a brush and in many cases unfairly and inaccurately. I personally do not wish to be identified as a Republican—I prefer “conservative”, but not in the sense that that term has been portrayed as just the opposite of “liberal”.
I too, commend Lyle and all who have served our country in the military. I have not, however I do not believe that it is fair to characterize Bush and Cheney and others as Chickenhawks. I believe the implication is that because they did not get shot at in combat that they should not make decisions to commit our troops to battle. They have to—this is the job of the Executive Branch. [We can argue about whether or not Bush pulled strings to get out of going to Vietnam (I’m sure his name and connection helped), but that was a long time ago and he has never made his Vietnam-era accomplishments his main selling points.] They are in a job and they have to do it to the best of their judgement. Again—we can argue about whether or not we agree with their judgement, but let’s not stoop to name-calling. Children do that—adults can make reasoned arguments and understand each others’ perspectives, even if they don’t agree.
Garrison,
Just want to say, Love your Radio Show, and Love NPR, you are one of the best storytellers around. I even laughed it up when you had Franken on talking about your book lines.
I am a Republican, who lives in Georgia, and lived in Massachusetts for 19 years and I still find you funny.
Even though you have a great talent for waxing poetic, and storytelling, I find you very short on abilities to protect this country from Al Quaeda or any future attacks.
One Question for you, when have you ever been bullied by a fundamentalist Bible Thumper? Just curious, and it might make for a funny talk episode on your radio program.
And this statement of yours “Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.” You really need to get out of your small pond of Wobegon and get a grip, and realize that making sweeping generalizations about Republicans, Christians, and Southerners really just makes you look mean spirited.
You are in luck, Mr. Keillor, Mark Twain is here in your very hour of need and he has some kind words for you, to guide you. Mark Twain is telling you “GOOD BREEDING CONSISTS IN CONCEALING HOW MUCH WE THINK OF OURSELVES AND HOW LITTLE WE THINK OF THE OTHER PERSON”.
Keep the Faith, Keep the Humor, and I look forward to the next time I listen to NPR and you are doing your radio show.
God Bless America, God Bless our Troops, God Bless our President!
The answer is fairly easy. The Republicans lost power for over 20 yrs. after Eisenhower and didn’t win it back until Reagan. After the intervening setbacks of Vietnam and the oil shocks, they grasped it with a vengeance, attracting the reactionary classes.
Isn’t it great that we can live in a country where we can communicate like this and say whatever we want to say. Many, many have died for that right! Let us not forget…Bush has…
I am an American! Loyal, patriotic, freedom-loving, God loving, and a veteran.
Now, who the hell gives a DAMN what political party I belong to?
I am an AMERICAN! So are you all! That should be first and foremost in all our hearts and minds.
Enticing people to vote based on Conservative or Liberal labeling is a sick joke on the American populus. The finger-pointing and name-calling would cause our Founding Fathers to throw up their hands in disgust and wonder why they went through all their trouble creating this nation when such petty jealousies divide and polarize us all.
Neither Party has any advantage over the other in terms of offering a “better” government of the people, by the people and for the people. Scoundrels occupy both Parties. What is best for all Americans takes a back seat to what is best for the Party. This is political PUKE!!
America was founded as a beacon of hope for ALL peoples, no matter where they come from or who they are. We were promised life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness WITHOUT having to swear allegiance to any political bent. Yet, both Parties position themselves to be portrayed as the ONLY solution to any problem. And all those in opposition to their views are “un-American” or “un-Patriotic”. HUMBUG!
We are ALL Americans! Period.
If you were a starving Democrat, would your Republican next door neighbor deny you food for nourishment if you asked?
If you were a Republican left homeless from a terrible storm, would your Democrat neighbor deny you shelter from the storm?
Sure, it’s a political season. We all have our opinions. However, it dismays me to see the vitriole being spewed by the Parties in their efforts to convince voters that only THEIR Party is rational, reasonable and honest, at the expense of painting their opponents as the opposite.
WE ARE ALL AMERICANS!
Just as it is wrong to define ourselves as “black”, “white”, “Latino” or “Asian” subcultures, the term AMERICAN applies evenly to us all.
If you were travelling overseas and somebody asked you what nationality you were, would you answer Republican-American? Or, Democrat-American? NO YOU WOULDN"T! So, why must you do that in our own country??
It is ludicrous to believe that only ONE Party believes in strong national defense and lower taxes for all. It is folly to think that only ONE Party cares about school lunch programs and health care for our children.
It is just plain STUPID to judge a candidate on what he/she said or did 30-40 years ago as a youth!
And for those of you who don’t bother to vote, you deserve exactly what you get in return. You have NO right or reason to complain about anything our government does or doesn’t do. If you don’t care to participate in the democratic process of choosing our leaders, then you have no business voicing an opinion about the results! You have chosen to abdicate your right to choose. The only way to vindicate yourself is to RUN FOR OFFICE yourself! If you don’t like your choices, then YOU become one of the choices to improve our political process and government. Anything short of this makes you a hypocrite…enjoying the fruits of those who sacrificed on your behalf while criticizing those who do.
The deep divisions and polarization of our nation can only go so far before everything implodes upon us all. Partisanship is leading our nation to a collapse of the democratic process. Already we are seeing that certain factions are attempting to change our Constitution to reflect their own partisanship on fringe issues. When our sacred law of the land can be entrenched in the meddling of petty divisions, then our very democracy is at terrible risk of destruction.
These are very dangerous times, and WE are our own worst enemies!
But, WE ARE ALL AMERICANS!
It’s time we begin to act like it again and put these polarizing attitudes behind us once and for all.
Shame on us all! Please, Founding Fathers, forgive us!
I agree with much of what Don in Indy wrote. Neither party has a lock on the right answers.
Thomas Brown—I agree with everything you said up to the last two words. Why do you say that Bush has forgotten that many have died for our freedom of speech?
Dear Garrison: I have just returned to my home in Manhattan after spending the day marching in potest to the RNC and the Bush & Co. dictatorship. Thank-you for your comments, especially for putting 911 into proper context. As we are about to witness, over the next several days, 911, once again, wiill become the GOP’s misguided montra for the election of George W. Bush & Co. If today’s march turn-out is any indication, that montra and it’s conservative based choir will soon be retired.
Nobody saye it better than Garrison!!!
Thanks Mr.Keillor
Amen, Garrison! As a life long Republican who has rarely voted that ticket lately I am appalled at where the party has gone. The vitriol spewed by the platform alone should turn off any thinking American. God Save our wonderful country this November.
Memo to Cowpox: the war is *over*! Also, were you looking for the ‘Crazy Tangents’ board, or did you actually intend to respond to the essay by Mr. Keillor?
Cowpox reminds me of two things: first, what George Carlin said about Civil War reenactors:
“Next time, use live ammunition, will you please?”
And second, what Morrissey said about copycat writers:
“If you must write prose and poems, the words you use should be your own-don’t plagiarize or take on loan.”
Please don’t drag William Blake into your personal anger problems, Cowpox. Open the phone book to the section on psychiatrists, point to one and pick up the phone.
Mr Keillor’s essay is splendid.
But we can’t guide the immediate future by the good old Republicans of the 40’s or the snappy Democrat Harry Truman or Ronald Reagan a la Phil Collins.
We have to gather our common sense to vote as best we can.
We have to take information where we can, not just from where we like. There were three different VietNams. I liked the first phase of VietNam and I still don’t like Jane Fonda. Which time of VietNam or Jane Fonda gives us very little information now.
Some folks really like Bush because he is truly charming and cute. Fewer people like Kelly because ‘he looks like a tribal mask.’ We have to put that aside. It really is irrelevant.
Don’t waste time on tv ads; you know that they’re selling soap.
Neither presidential candidate is perfect. If your sister is a screaming fan of Cheney, Dr Rice, or Bush the Younger, try to
think of something OK about those people.
‘The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned’
We need to raise our wisdom and sense and put away our easy
emotion.
Garrison,
Posted this at Posted by Anne on August 29, 2004 at 6:39 PM and you deleted this…wonder why…it seemed friendly enough. Guess you can not take criticizm.
Just want to say, Love your Radio Show, and Love NPR, you are one of the best storytellers around. I even laughed it up when you had Franken on talking about your book lines.
I am a Republican, who lives in Georgia, and lived in Massachusetts for 19 years and I still find you funny.
Even though you have a great talent for waxing poetic, and storytelling, I find you very short on abilities to protect this country from Al Quaeda or any future attacks.
One Question for you, when have you ever been bullied by a fundamentalist Bible Thumper? Just curious, and it might make for a funny talk episode on your radio program.
And this statement of yours “Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.” You really need to get out of your small pond of Wobegon and get a grip, and realize that making sweeping generalizations about Republicans, Christians, and Southerners really just makes you look mean spirited.
You are in luck, Mr. Keillor, Mark Twain is here in your very hour of need and he has some kind words for you, to guide you. Mark Twain is telling you “GOOD BREEDING CONSISTS IN CONCEALING HOW MUCH WE THINK OF OURSELVES AND HOW LITTLE WE THINK OF THE OTHER PERSON”.
Keep the Faith, Keep the Humor, and I look forward to the next time I listen to NPR and you are doing your radio show.
God Bless America, God Bless our Troops, God Bless our President!
Posted by Anne on August 29, 2004 at 6:39 PM
Bernie Ellis - What are you talking about? Did you think when I addressed a comment to ‘G.’ I meant Garrison Keillor? No, my sweet, I was trying to get the attention of Mr./Ms. van den Bosch. Emily Latella…hmmm. Was that on SNL years ago when it wasn’t really funny anymore?
Someone posted a few posts ago that he or she would appreciate me providing more information on why I left the Democratic party (or a liberal world-view) to become an Independent and then a Republican. I appreciate the question, for I take it as a sincere one. I also sense that there are some in this conversation thread - though not all - who would appreciate actually listening and learning from each other. So, in answer to your question, here is my response:
My journey from a McGovern Democrat to one about to vote for George Bush was actually a long one and the change was more incremental - with, as you can imagine, a final shove not too long ago. Yes, it was based upon my own crtical thinking to experiences and observations. Rather than provide you with a 30 page biograhy, let me provide a few highlights - here are images, descriptions, milestones to my change from a McGovern Democrat to a Bush Republican. These represent times (in chronological order)when I began to re-think and to re-examine:
1. Listening to my friends and walking with them as they looked for employement after coming home from Viet Nam.
2. Reading Waldon Pond by D. T.
3. Reading in the Rolling Stone that Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones all owned share in the same real estate as Frank Sinatra.
4. Listening to countless professors in three graduate programs avoid anything approaching a discussion on morality or moral clarity (they were so morally confused).
5. As I studied philosophy and history. As I learned about presuppostions, world-views, paradigms, and the track record of Marxism (millions starved in USSR, Africa, etc.).
6. As I observed “activist liberals” discussing tactics for political action in a Grand Rapids, Michigan inner city church - grinding their ciggarette butts in the floor with delight in utter disregard and without even a hint of gratitude.
7. Watching someone in a large gathering simply ask a question of Indepednet candidate for president, John Anderson, about his position on abortion - and then getting booed from the entire audience for simply asking the questiom.
8. Hearing a collegue in a Canadian Christian high school faculty lounge verbally express her hope that more American soldiers would be killed in Lebonon so that the Americans would learn a lesson. And, then, watch as not one of my collegues even blinked an eye or said a word.
9. Becoming a father and raising a child - for the most part - by myself. I became more conservative with each passing day.
10. Representing Head Start and interacting with people working in migrant and tribal programs as well as in various government agencies: I soon diascovered that the people assigned to solve a problem are eventually so invested in their careers and thus end up resisting changes that would actually help solve the problems (e.g. resistence to welfare reform and to universal full-day kindergarten).
11. Representing a liberal arts college in Canada and interacting with business people as I solicited financial contributions. Then, coming back to hear members of the faculty make snide remarks about the very people who had made significant donations for their very salaries.
12. Studying logic and teaching public speaking. istening to countless persuasive speeches on various public policy topics of the day.
13. Re-evaluating my life experiences as I matured and realized that good and evil do very much exist and that moral clarity is and must be available. I realized that such a text was available and the wisdome of the ages was - in fact - true.
14. Dealing with the suicide death of my closest friend and the mental illness of my sister. Strugling with my family to care for my sister and her four children. Observing what and who - in the final analysis - was there to help and who was not.
15. Reading many books and articles from various perspecives. Debating both sides.
16. Waking up to September 11, 2001 and watching as so many around me simply went into denial.
17. Countless conversations with liberals, independents, and conservatives via email, discussions groups, and blogs (including my own).
18. Years of relfection on my own shortcomings, on my own accomplishments, and on human nature as I have experienced and observed it.
These are 18 items that give you at least a flavor for why I moved incrementally from a Democrat to a Republican. I do not believe anyone or any group owns or has a corner on the truth. I think we are all quite fallible. We need each other and we can - and we must - learn from each other.
No, as someone mentioned, my name is not German, it is Dutch.
And yes, my religion has influenced my political beliefs. I believe that we are all religious - we all serve a god of our own making or God. There is no one who does not put his or her first and final trust in someone or something.
That’s enough for now. Since you asked.
Hey Garrison, I always enjoy your words…but I have one disagreement. In your words of August 26th, .....“This is a great country and it wasn’t made so by angry people”...You are wrong…. Angry people gave the “Tea Party”...Angry people changed the way slaves were treated…Angry people, black and white, brought about the civil rights movement and changed laws and history. Angry women changed laws, and the way women were treated…. Anger has changed many things to make this country truly grrrreat!! Anger will get bush and his cronies out of office!!
Thanks for speaking for all of us. I’m from a large family, half of whom are Republicans, and we can’t talk about politics. This ban has been in effect ever since the 2000 election when I spoke out against W. Come on! How can good people support these criminals who have hold of our country. New Zealand does sound good. My son’s girlfriend is learning Dutch. Canada, how many of us can you take? Better yet, VOTE KERRY.
Yuma—what crimes have “these criminals” committed?
J. Peters, were not the British very angry about the Tea Party? And those Southern plantation owners were hopping mad - so angry that they left the Union (while calling Lincoln a baboon!). Angry people resisted the civil rights movement and enacted many of the harshest and most unjust laws of our history.
Angry people can indeed change things for the better - toward public justice - BUT they must check their anger - channel it - for the achievement of justice. Unchecked anger never accomplished anything. Repeat, unchjecked anger never accomplished anything. No one changes as a result of being yeled at or being insulted by his or her neighbor of fellow American.
Unchecked anger against the strawmen “Republicans” and “Bush” will simply usher in four more years of an administration that many of you hope would go away. Your mission will be defeated by your own unchecked anger.
Name calling? You do it and then you accuse others of doing it. Does the same hypocricy exist on the “other side” as well. You bet it does. We are all human and we are all Americans. How about if we all check our anger and begin listening to each other.
What a novel concept.
There comes a time when Tories and Rebels sit down and actually compromise to build a country. There comes a time when Northerners and Southerners make peace and build a country. There comes a time when men and women begin working together to raise families and work in the workplace to build a country.
When will we begin to listen to each other and consider each other - without the self-righteousness and the unchecked anger of today’s discourse? When will we realize that “we” (you, or us, or they) are not the enemy. When will we begin to work together, again?
It starts by “checking” our anger and listening to each other.
so, if the republicans win this time, I ADVOCATE A TAX REVOLT. Lets just stop paying for the folly.
But the anger is so much fun isn’t it? Better to lose an election than to give up me precious anger. Oh, me precious. Oh me precious. Oh me loves it. Me anger.
Clinton killed Vince Foster!
Oh, me precious anger.
Bush kills babies!
Oh me precious anger.
Me loves my anger.
Me leaves this country. Yes, Me leaves this country. And me takes me anger with me where’re me goes. Yes, me does. Me precious.
G. van den Bosch - That was me that inquired about your journey. Thank you for sharing some of your steps with us. What is so remarkable to me is that it would seem we are around the same age and have had many similar experiences. Your list is one of disappointments and disillusionment with the bright ideals and promise many of us felt in the 60’s and well into the 70’s.
I owned my own business for many years, and I paid every employee a good living wage and provided excellent benefits. I did not make much money and when I sold the business I didn’t get much for it. But I can always say I did the right thing and everyone who ever worked for me or with me would tell you that as well. I think there are lots of people like me who found ways to serve the common good, though not in so-called public service.
It’s hard for me to relate to your items that seem to illustrate bad manners (booing, grinding butts on the church hall floor, backstabbing, expressing appalling opinions). I’m also surprised by your two expressions of your need for moral clarity in the context of it coming from outside yourself.
I have read your list twice and have tried to see how these things would lead you to support President Bush. The Republican Party does not seem to me to be offering anything you seem to be looking for in your life. I’ve been watching them develop their platform for the convention. Have you had time to catch any of this on CSpan? I don’t expect you to change your mind, and it was brave of you to reveal so much of yourself, but I still don’t get it. What are the Republicans offering you that makes you want to keep them in power?
I hate to ask for more, but could you please sum up for us?
To van den Bosch—thanks for your commentary. It is very insightful and right on point. We need less anger and more thoughfulness.
Mostly directed to Justin Hornburg. You seem to be intellegent.You argue with conviction and put down others with a version of the facts,but you wish to paint your picture with an odd pallet of colors.
Our so called friends and allies,the french and germans were against our going into Iraq because they had their own oil contracts with Saddam Hussein and weapons contracts as well.With the U.S. entering into Iraq ,we were bound to find out these things and they are embarrassing poliltically.
The one thing that I took particular offense at was when Doug Lane described Lynddie England as a “wretched lowlife reservist”. People like mr.Lane make me ill. I try not to get into name calling but this really stuck a knife into me.Obviously mr.Lane has not had the remotes contact with combat.I don’t like bringing my combat experiences into this mix,but I have knowledge that I have to impart.I DO NOT condone what Pfc.England and her peers did,but I think that I can understand A reason for what happened. First, not all people are created as equal,we all have frailties and weaknesses. When you share life and death situations with your peers you bond and have an affinity with each other.What they think influences your thoughts and actions.You want to help,protect,and defend these people.If you believe that you are not appreciated by the people that you are risking your life for,you begin to not care about them as humans and only care for your own.When you feel that your government has lost concern for you and your welfare,you pull yourself into a smaller group,such as your squad or platoon.When you hear daily that these people that you are to protect are animals or ragheads or whatever derogatory term is common you start to believe these things.When you fellow soldiers are being killed daily by the people that you see everyday you become very callous about them and their feelings.When you have fear,anxiety,uncertainty,and anger everyday,you become hateful and vengeful,especially when you can’t get at the real people who are responsible and then you go the wrong way and can do the wrong things.These people were not wretched lowlifes!These were people. These were people that have had their lives radically changed,turned upside down. These people probably thought that they were in the service to get an education,so that they could get ahead and have a better life.I volunteered for the army,and for vietnam,but because I was 19 and very impressionable and trusted my government I thought that I was doing the right thing.The point is that I did volunteer and thought that I knew why I was there.These people did not get that luxury.
And finally,some of you people still aren’t getting it.It’s not about democrats or republicans.It is about politcians who have no relationship with their constituents.No desire to help their people,no concern for their well being,welfare,or health concerns.For the most part these politicians don’t even live amoung their constituents.They live in their own enclave amoungst themselves,except when they want to be re-elected.They get into that same mindset that the wretched lowlifes of Iraq do,in that they don’t understand why their constituents don’t appreciate them or understand what they are doing to to help them.
Oh,by the way,our founding fathers were not saints.They had the same foibles that every other person had and has to this day.They were selfish,petty,and jealous among other things.They were able to put together a government by compromising and making deals.They were not saints,so think of that when you invokes their names as if they were saints.Ed P.
Joanne, you are kind to ask. Thank you.
Re: I’m also surprised by your two expressions of your need for moral clarity in the context of it coming from outside yourself.
Joanne, I do not think that highly of myself to find a source for moral clarity within myself. Certainly not in my heart nor in my reason - for I know full well how fallible and easily swayed I am. Some of the most unspeakable horrors of the last century were committed by people finding moral clarity within themselves. *We* are not to be trusted for moral clarity. Such clarity comes - as you describe it - from an outside source.
The Republic party is anything but perfect - that is for certain. But that party is at least striving for moral clarity. It appears the other parties have a difficult time even mentioning - as a fellow grad student once said in one of my classes - “the ’ m’ word”.
It appears the only thing evil in the other party is he (or she or they) who fight(s) evil. It appears “fighting” is evil for the other party - at least for now. I happen to believe that fighting evil is good.
Yes, I often watch C-Span, though not now as I am spednding - belive it or not - time with family. So, no, I did not see what you described.
Re: What are the Republicans offering you that makes you want to keep them in power?
Moral clarity. Recognition that it is better to earn than to be given. Recognition that there are indeed people trying to kill others and us and they will - in fact - kill us - unless they are stopped. The Republicans are more serious about this (sorry, you can believe that John Kerry or Ralph Nadar will protct you and your families if you wish, I simply do not).
Obviously, there is more, but that is enough for now.
Again, thanks for asking - and for considering. Of such is dialogue and it is tjrough dialogue - not through angry shouting - that we will finally get back to building our country together - once again
(ala the Golden Age of the 50s, the Age of Camelot, etc.).
Here’s to actually listening to each other.
Ed P. you have dropped the pearls of wisdom in the middle of your piece! Fear, anxiety, uncertainty - this is the state which our government seeks to instill in us daily with repeated terror alerts, stories about terrorists tampering with drugs; media items about insecure borders, chemical plants, nuclear plants, ports; constant bugabooing day in and day out about all the danger, danger, danger all around us. It’s such a trasparent tactic that I’m amazed at how many people allow this fear to infect their thoughts and actions.
Listen up: if these things are true and disaster is on the way, there is little you can do about it. Roosevelt was right when he said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. We all need to give ourselves a good slap and pull ourselves together right this minute.
I personally believe that we will have to deal with both foreign and domestic terrorism for a long time to come. The world is awash in weapons of major and minor destruction, and most of them are labeled Made In The USA. You can take the attitude that some demogogic leader cult can protect you, or you can resign yourself to start thinking with your head about what needs to be done to provide a reasonable level of security for the nation. You cannot hope to secure yourself or your loved ones 100%, but you can strive to be strong and clear headed, to look for leaders who don’t blow smoke up your ass about how they’re winning the ‘war on terror’. The ‘terror’ is in your head. You can make yourself a victim of terror even if there is never another attack anywhere in the world. You can live in fear until the inevitable end of your days. Or not. Choose and move on.
If you’re ready for a President that inspires hope, courage, and common purpose, then consider alternatives to George W. Bush. He’s just not making the grade in this department and he has managed by his own actions to so polarize people (love him/hate him) that he can never hope to lead in an effective way.
I don’t like to slam folks into boxes, but I have to say my experience with Republican Party supporters the past 20 years has been that they love to create division in order to achieve power, and then claim to be uniters who can’t understand why those who disagree with them can’t make an effort to get along. It’s so high school. All this ‘gotcha’ crap all the time, and all the bald-faced institutionalized lying. I can easily understand why the poiticians do it, but I can’t grasp what is going on in the minds of so many of my fellow citizens.
Who said English Majors serve no useful purpose? Bravo!
Dear NPR;
I would like to share with you what I think really happened on 9/11. First of all if you really want to know you have to go back to the first Gulf War in 1991 when the U.S. was about to invade Bagdad.
Saddam pleaded to their cheif ally, Russia, to come to their aid so theyr finally did. Russia ordered the Americans out of the country and the very next morning President Clinton declared that the major objective of the war had been completed so the American troops were ordered to pull out of the region, leaving Saddam in power.
After that the free world began buying oil from Russia but there was a major problem with that. The oil in the Caspian Sea area was/is essentially landlocked meaning that it is very hard to get to market.
The best way around that problem was to build a pipeline across Afganistan. You probably remember the war that Russia fought with Afganistan to get access to the best route to the Mediterrian Sea. Well, after several years of fighting with Afganistan, Russia was unable to win the right to cross the Afgan mountains with their oil piplines.
That brings us back to Bush and his desire to overthrow the Iraqi governmemt. Bush and the other people in power in Washington, D.C. then made a deal with the Russian leaders that if the Americans would overthrow the Afganistan resistance that Russia would then allow us to overthrow Saddam.
Well, look at it that is what happened. But to get the American people to support the war on Afganistan a tramatic event had to happen. Move forward to 9/11 and remember that for no good reason our government blamed those events on Saddam.
After that there was a widespread panic and desire to overthrow Saddam and his Telliban which we had previously been supporting during their war with Russia. After going over to Afganistan and nuetralizing the Warlords there and before Osama was even captured Russia gave us permission to overthrow the Iraqi people so Bush declared that to make the world a safer place from future terriost attacks we shoudl overthrow Saddam and capture his vast oilfields.
The best way that I can think of to get the Iraq people on our side is to upgrade their country by giving them portable electrical generators and air-conditioners that they can use until we restore their main power units. After that we can give them refrigerators so that they might start enjoying some of their newly acquired freedom from Saddam and emerge from the third world status that they are in right now.
Thank you,
Henry A. Park
Joanne, I am a Republican. Do you find me devisive? Is your experience with me in this conversation one of creating division?
Or, do you sense that I am a uniter? A peace-maker? Do you have a sense that I am honest? That I am a good father? A good brother? Do you have a sense that I hold people who are vulnerable to be worthy? Do you suspect that I attempt to follow the wisdom as summarized in the “sermon on the mount” a couple of thousand years ago? Do you have a sense - as you review my comments here - that I thirst after justice and mercy. That I wake up each morning to put such thirst into concrete action?
Do you have that sense? Honestly?
Here is my point: I am a Republican. And I will vote for Bush.
Please re-consider your stereotypes. That is what I am challenging. And I make that challenge to myself as well.
Someone once said, “a soft answer turneth away wrath.” Let us turn away from wrath. Wrath has never built anything. It has only destroyed - families, relationships, commnities, and even nations. Let us turn away from wrath.
Please challenge yourself to move beyond the stereotypes presented by the media and by our own fears and misunderstandings. Consider that there are people - in red and in blue “states” - who love this country and seek justice for their fellow citizens. Consider that we are Americans together and that we must put aside the anger and the self-righteousness - as good as they feel - to return to the hard work of building each other and our country up once again.
G. van den Bosch - Thank you. I’m sure you realize that I don’t agree that moral clarity can only come from outside, by which I assume you mean your god. I believe the opposite. What is amazing to me is that while you feel it is appropriate and even necessary to look to a political party for moral clarity, you do not seem to believe it is appropriate to look to your government to care for those who cannot care for themselves in our society. Children should not be allowed to live in poverty, elderly people should not go without medicine, no one should be denied health care. If we wish to consider ourselves a moral nation, we should never yield to the temptation to believe that our only choice is to kill or be killed, nor countenance torture, nor institutionalize the taking of human life. We should seek to be merciful and just in our dealings, not aggressive and bullying. Charity begins at home, but the world is our home, so our charity must be borderless. This is my moral vision and I can see it clearly, just as I could when I was a young woman protesting the carnage in Viet Nam.
Yes we all need to talk more, I suppose, and again I appreciate your sharing. Now I’ve taken my turn and I hope you will consider what I’ve said to you. I don’t think you are evil, but I believe you may have turned away from some of what was finest in you when you were a McGovern Democrat.
Joanne, I’ve got to call it a night, but before I walk away from my screen, let me quickly respond:
1. I do *not* look to my government for moral clarity. I look to what I believe to be a revelation provided by God for my / our moral clarity. For me, this is the Bible. For others, it may be the Torah, etc.
2. I believe we are all responsible for the care of those who cannot care for themselves. I used to represent Head Start at the state and national levels and I am proud of that service. I am a Republican - not a Libertarian.
3. Sad to say, but we are grownups here: Sometimes the choice *is* to kill or to be killed. No need to go over our fight against the Nazis, for example. Nor is it necessary - I hope - to remind us of the lives lost to make people free during the American Civil War. Sometimes the moral choice is to kill or be killed (of such is our choice today, make no mistake ... and wishing it were no so will not make it go away) Killing evil is not evil. Murder is evil. There is a moral difference between force and violence - between killing and murder.
4. Charity is borderless - to an extent. But I will not call on you to help pay for my daughter’s clothing as she returns to school. That is *my* responsibility. Nonetheless, we have a moral obligations to protect ourselves and our families. We also have a moral obligation to stop genocide. Children’s prison. There was such in Iraq. We shut it down. What about the Sudan? Shall we simply watch the genocide and wish it would stop?
Joanne, I read what you said carefully and I agree re-examination is always good. I will always be careful to reform myself to what is good and just. And I will do so with a sense of moral certainty.
What was finest in me as a McGovern Democrat was made more certain through discernment over the years.
Thanks for the challenge ... and good night.
It’s one thing to become more conservative with the passing years, but it’s another to let your perception stand still and not realize that the Republican Party has long since passed from conservatism into the hate-filled, anti-American organization it is today.
It’s strange to me that there are a lot of moderate Republicans who don’t seem to realize their party is being run by hypocrites and lunatics, by bigoted hate-mongers and subliterate fools. They seem surprised when I tell them this is how the Republican Party is perceived, as though time has passed them by and they have simply ignored the changes that have been going on in their party since the late 1970s.
I long for the days Mr. Keillor speaks of, when Republicans were a necessary part of the political process, because they WERE conservative, and they were reasonable, and their conservative reasoning counterbalanced the emotional rhetoric of liberal Democrats. But those days are long gone and they ended with the rise of Ronald Reagan.
The Democratic Party has too many liberal extremists for my taste, but at least the thinking people are still at the top instead of at the bottom, as they are in the Republican Party.
If there are any reasonable Republicans like Mr. van den Bosch out there listening, you need to overthrow these wild-eyed radicals who are ruining your party and ruining the country with their pandering dissimulation and their unbridled intolerance.
A nice bit of “Bush-bashing”; however, The ONLY
way Kerry will ever be President of the USA is
if God wants to punish a wicked and unrepentant
nation with much grief and tribulation. Kerry would be just the person for the job, and would make Bush look like a rank amature. RCK
Soldier on! Thank you for insightful, well thought out facts to help counter the flow of BS. As a religious conservative I have been ousted by my family for not swallowing the witch burner rhetoric. Wake up “compassionate conservatives” our hour is NOW!!!!
Thank you for insightful, well written stuff that some of my cohorts will still open their well scrubbed minds to. As a religious conservative I burn with shame to see the TV preachers use God’s holy name to endorse this hypocrit. I have been ousted from my family because I won’t swallow this witch burner mentality. I call on all “compassionate conservatives” to lend their voices to shout down this perversion of the Bible and our religion to feed the greedy and starve the needy. Shame on those who go along to get along. Someone has had to stand against the prevailing winds in many church errors (racism for one example). Join and stop this evil man.
Oh how I share your passion! Thank you and another AMEN from another old lady.
G. Van Der Bosch,
I want to start by saying that you have come closer than any Republican in this exchange to being a truly exemplary person. I do get the feeling you practice what you preach. I will also add that I have an IQ of 135, a bachelors degree from college, and I’m a former Southern Baptist who was baptized into the church at the age of 9. I do know what I’m talking about.
You ask Liberals to be more kind, understanding and broad minded. How many letters of similar nature have you sent to Rush Limbau, Pat Robertson, or your beloved President? It seems to me that for 40 years now Liberals have been “weighing issues,” “seeking dialogue,” and trying to be fair. While we pondered, the Radical Right has gathered their forces stabbed us in the back and slit our throats. It was your own presidential candidate, Pat Buchanan, who declared a “Culture War” and urged his fundamentalist supporters to take it to the streets, if necessary. You urge Liberals to be kind, forgiving, and embracing, as if there had even been one shred of such high minded ideals in your own party.
I am a Gay man, G, and any Christian who thinks I should be subject to a death penalty, and a number of Christian leaders have spoken that sentiment in clear public terms is most certainly my “enemy.” Any moralistic judgmental bigot who stands outside my dead friends memorial service praying for his damnation is most certainly my enemy. I have been in a solid committed relationship for TWELVE YEARS! A heck of a lot longer than many of the serial marriages of the moral arbiters who want to “defend heterosexual marriage” by denying my access to it. If you want to defend marriage, out law divorce for straight people! Yes, anyone who says I cannot love and devote myself to whichever human being I choose is my enemy.
In five or six years my nephews will be old enough to be drafted. Any and all gods willing, by then Iraq will be a memory but there will be no shortage of new unnecessary wars for the military industrial complex to goad the government into fighting. Anyone willing to sacrifice those precious boys blood for ill gotten profits and the bloated egos of cowardly men is my enemy.
I’m self employed, struggling mightily toward the kind of self sufficiency your party gives lip service to. I pay almost 15% of my income into a social security system that is annually drained for the sake of pork barrel special interests which your party is every bit as guilty of as any other. There is no money left for a “personal retirement fund” no matter how generous your tax breaks, and yet your party has every intention of making sure social security wont be there for me when I retire. There are people in this world making hundreds of times my salary and paying no income tax at all, but I don’t have enough money to finagle a similar tax shelter. There are businesses thousands of times larger than my own humble endeavors that receive millions of dollars a year, of which my oppressive taxes are a part, while my efforts don’t merit a single dime. You dare to embrace those policies and then claim the moral high ground???
I can’t afford insurance and because I don’t have it the healthcare industry routinely charges me as much as ten times as much as they charge insurance companies for the same treatment. The drug companies charge Americans many times as much as people in other countries are charged and your party dares to claim our “free market system” superior to any other? It undoubtedly is for those with the affluence to buy stock in it.
I don’t smoke marijuana or tobacco. I tried marijuana. I did inhale. I didn’t enjoy it. My property is my property, bought with my own hard earned money. I think I should be allowed to grow anything I want for my own consumption. It doesn’t matter whether that is Tobacco, tomatoes, pot plants, or Belladonna to kill myself when the fascists knock down my door and come to take me away, anybody who wants to tell me I’m free to buy poisonous cigarettes and alcohol from corporate sources but can’t grow any plant that I want to, on my own property, is my enemy.
Currently, The FBI can secretly search my house, filter my email, track the books I read in the library, and the purchases I make with my credit cards. If I had the chance to speak out to loudly, or effectively, against this creeping fascism I might well find myself mysteriously on a “no fly” list unable to travel at will, and with no recourse or appeal. Your party thinks the government should have still greater powers to oppress my personal freedom. Pardon me for being blunt, but anybody who thinks these powers are not being misused now, and wont be misused even more egregiously in the future is a gullible idiot, and yes, anybody who thinks this state of affairs is excusable or acceptable is my enemy.
I could go on for pages. You seem like an intelligent, rational, even sincere, person. Are your eyes open? Are you honestly evaluating the party you support. Is the illusory fantasy of “moral certainty” so compelling in and of itself that you care not for substance?
I’m sincerely sorry your ideals were shaken and your utopian view of the world disappointed. There are shallow, ignorant, and yes, even evil people everywhere. I know from personal experience the backbone of the conservative Christian church, which itself is the backbone of the modern Republican Party is made up of people apparently like yourself. People who have, in spite of being reassured that “Jesus their PERSONAL Savior” and that God has an individual interest in them, been paradoxically convinced that they are so unworthy that they must depend on some outside higher authority to dictate their standards and ideals to them. This in spite of the fact those arbiters are every bit as human as the people they lead. Desperation for some shred of certainty in an uncertain world gives these people the tolerance to overlook even the most breathtaking moral lapses from their “leaders” while self righteousness allows their leaders to guiltlessly commit the most grossly venal of wrongs with God’s approval. Hypocrisy thy name is Conservative Christianity. What would Jesus do, indeed?! I no longer believe God smiles with particular ardor on Republicans OR democrats.
You were kind enough to share all the reasons that you become disillusioned with liberal philosophy. Among others, I too appreciate that. However, you offered very little about what the Republicans have done to impress you, beyond cloaking their own self interest, self righteousness, and personal agendas, in a veneer of moral superiority. Please do convert me. My mind is open, despite what you may think. Show my the 24 carat gold lining inside the sulfurous cloud that is George Bush. Given the fact that I do not own stock in Haliburton Corp., received mere pocket change in Tax relief, am as frightened and revolted by the actions my own government as by our alleged terrorist enemies, and do not have a hollow core of personal insecurity that must be validated by idol (with or without feet of clay)puking forth debased moral certainty, what is there about George Bush that I should admire? His drug addiction? his cowardice? His consistent failure in every business enterprise he’s attempted? His scholastic ineptitude? His complete lack of both curiosity and intellectual aspiration? Certainly not his compassion, humility, and unflinching honesty, because he has none.
Have you visited the FDR memorial in Washington DC? I did this passed spring. The dozen or so quotes from Roosevelt literally brought tears to my eyes. I felt embarrassed that I was so ignorant of how great a man he was and I dispared to think there was a single “statesman” in America today who could speak such high minded ideals with even a pretense of sincerity.
G. Van Der Bosch,
I want to start by saying that you have come closer than any Republican in this exchange to being a truly exemplary person. I do get the feeling you practice what you preach. I will also add that I have an IQ of 135, a bachelors degree from college, and I’m a former Southern Baptist who was baptized into the church at the age of 9. I do know what I’m talking about.
You ask Liberals to be more kind, understanding and broad minded. How many letters of similar nature have you sent to Rush Limbau, Pat Robertson, or your beloved President? It seems to me that for 40 years now Liberals have been “weighing issues,” “seeking dialogue,” and trying to be fair. While we pondered, the Radical Right has gathered their forces stabbed us in the back and slit our throats. It was your own presidential candidate, Pat Buchanan, who declared a “Culture War” and urged his fundamentalist supporters to take it to the streets, if necessary. You urge Liberals to be kind, forgiving, and embracing, as if there had even been one shred of such high minded ideals in your own party.
I am a Gay man, G, and any Christian who thinks I should be subject to a death penalty, and a number of Christian leaders have spoken that sentiment in clear public terms is most certainly my “enemy.” Any moralistic judgmental bigot who stands outside my dead friends memorial service praying for his damnation is most certainly my enemy. I have been in a solid committed relationship for TWELVE YEARS! A heck of a lot longer than many of the serial marriages of the moral arbiters who want to “defend heterosexual marriage” by denying my access to it. If you want to defend marriage, out law divorce for straight people! Yes, anyone who says I cannot love and devote myself to whichever human being I choose is my enemy.
In five or six years my nephews will be old enough to be drafted. Any and all gods willing, by then Iraq will be a memory but there will be no shortage of new unnecessary wars for the military industrial complex to goad the government into fighting. Anyone willing to sacrifice those precious boys blood for ill gotten profits and the bloated egos of cowardly men is my enemy.
I’m self employed, struggling mightily toward the kind of self sufficiency your party gives lip service to. I pay almost 15% of my income into a social security system that is annually drained for the sake of pork barrel special interests which your party is every bit as guilty of as any other. There is no money left for a “personal retirement fund” no matter how generous your tax breaks, and yet your party has every intention of making sure social security wont be there for me when I retire. There are people in this world making hundreds of times my salary and paying no income tax at all, but I don’t have enough money to finagle a similar tax shelter. There are businesses thousands of times larger than my own humble endeavors that receive millions of dollars a year, of which my oppressive taxes are a part, while my efforts don’t merit a single dime. You dare to embrace those policies and then claim the moral high ground???
I can’t afford insurance and because I don’t have it the healthcare industry routinely charges me as much as ten times as much as they charge insurance companies for the same treatment. The drug companies charge Americans many times as much as people in other countries are charged and your party dares to claim our “free market system” superior to any other? It undoubtedly is for those with the affluence to buy stock in it.
I don’t smoke marijuana or tobacco. I tried marijuana. I did inhale. I didn’t enjoy it. My property is my property, bought with my own hard earned money. I think I should be allowed to grow anything I want for my own consumption. It doesn’t matter whether that is Tobacco, tomatoes, pot plants, or Belladonna to kill myself when the fascists knock down my door and come to take me away, anybody who wants to tell me I’m free to buy poisonous cigarettes and alcohol from corporate sources but can’t grow any plant that I want to, on my own property, is my enemy.
Currently, The FBI can secretly search my house, filter my email, track the books I read in the library, and the purchases I make with my credit cards. If I had the chance to speak out to loudly, or effectively, against this creeping fascism I might well find myself mysteriously on a “no fly” list unable to travel at will, and with no recourse or appeal. Your party thinks the government should have still greater powers to oppress my personal freedom. Pardon me for being blunt, but anybody who thinks these powers are not being misused now, and wont be misused even more egregiously in the future is a gullible idiot, and yes, anybody who thinks this state of affairs is excusable or acceptable is my enemy.
I could go on for pages. You seem like an intelligent, rational, even sincere, person. Are your eyes open? Are you honestly evaluating the party you support. Is the illusory fantasy of “moral certainty” so compelling in and of itself that you care not for substance?
I’m sincerely sorry your ideals were shaken and your utopian view of the world disappointed. There are shallow, ignorant, and yes, even evil people everywhere. I know from personal experience the backbone of the conservative Christian church, which itself is the backbone of the modern Republican Party is made up of people apparently like yourself. People who have, in spite of being reassured that “Jesus their PERSONAL Savior” and that God has an individual interest in them, been paradoxically convinced that they are so unworthy that they must depend on some outside higher authority to dictate their standards and ideals to them. This in spite of the fact those arbiters are every bit as human as the people they lead. Desperation for some shred of certainty in an uncertain world gives these people the tolerance to overlook even the most breathtaking moral lapses from their “leaders” while self righteousness allows their leaders to guiltlessly commit the most grossly venal of wrongs with God’s approval. Hypocrisy thy name is Conservative Christianity. What would Jesus do, indeed?! I no longer believe God smiles with particular ardor on Republicans OR democrats.
You were kind enough to share all the reasons that you become disillusioned with liberal philosophy. Among others, I too appreciate that. However, you offered very little about what the Republicans have done to impress you, beyond cloaking their own self interest, self righteousness, and personal agendas, in a veneer of moral superiority. Please do convert me. My mind is open, despite what you may think. Show my the 24 carat gold lining inside the sulfurous cloud that is George Bush. Given the fact that I do not own stock in Haliburton Corp., received mere pocket change in Tax relief, am as frightened and revolted by the actions my own government as by our alleged terrorist enemies, and do not have a hollow core of personal insecurity that must be validated by idol (with or without feet of clay)puking forth debased moral certainty, what is there about George Bush that I should admire? His drug addiction? his cowardice? His consistent failure in every business enterprise he’s attempted? His scholastic ineptitude? His complete lack of both curiosity and intellectual aspiration? Certainly not his compassion, humility, and unflinching honesty, because he has none.
Have you visited the FDR memorial in Washington DC? I did this past spring. The dozen or so quotes from Roosevelt literally brought tears to my eyes. I felt embarrassed that I was so ignorant of how great a man he was and I dispared to think there was a single “statesman” in America today who could speak such high minded ideals with even a pretense of sincerity.
It’s time to stop this wishy washy pandering to Republicans. Republicans are the party of ‘of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations.’ Anyone who supports the Republican agenda deserves to be despised.
The trick of how to respect your opponents when they don’t respect you is very difficult. I had the same problem over here in England during the Thatcher years of the 1980s. Many of my friends (normal, decent people) supported her and her policies while not realizing the damage that was being done. The only thing to do is explain over and over again why they are wrong-it is a long and drawn out process but it works eventually.
Also you do get to keep your friends!
Aside from the fact that I disagree with most of G.W. Bush’s policies/actions (Environment, War on Terrorism, Energy Policy, Economics, ...) there is one thing that strikes me again and again. To quote Bush:
“I don’t like discussion. I prefer clarity.”
What kind of accommodation can be made with an attitude like that?
Cheney says that he is “not introspective. [he doesn’t] like looking back. How can he learn from his mistakes?
... and what about this Karl Rove joker?
It seems to me that G.W. Bush is not a President. He just isn’t that bright. Bush is a political figurehead for a regime orchestrated by Karl Rove to implement plans conceived by Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz as motivated by big oil (including Enron), pharacuticals (Pharma) and agriculture (Monsanto).
The vote from the Supreme Court that put Bush in office was cast by Clarence Thomas, previously an attorney for Monsanto.
Freedom to choose? Try to find a corn chip that hasn’t been genetically modified. Hard to tell? Guess what, Bush is against labeling. Milk without growth hormones? The real cause of death “by natural causes?”
I think about all of the intelligent Americans out there, who are relatively well informed who still want to support Bush, and sigh. The only thing I can think is that their values are vastly different than mine.
Mr Keillor,
Thank you for a most thought-provoking essay.
I think you touched on some important issues.
But all praise to your correspondent Ronald James.
Bring on the revolution !
Until the residents of the USA take up their responsibililty and abolish their political system, there is no hope of meaningful reform.
If you wish to have democracy, you must have participation. That is, not just a single vote once every 4 years, for vague promises that are quickly abandoned.
You need, at least, binding citizen-instituted referenda, and you need to see your own history of state secrets.
If you don’t know your history, you are doomed to repeat it. If you can’t actively respond to that knowledge, you’re a prisoner.
I can hardly comprehend the disaster your Mr Bush has wrought. But he must be reelected, so he can be charged, indicted, impeached, and imprisoned for the crimes he has instigated.
I don’t see the Kerry crowd holding him to account, or substantially changing domestic or foreign policy.
Why bother ? Just write the cheque to someone else. If Bush et al go free, what’s to stop the next tyrannical miscreant from doing the same or worse ?
Dante’s hell may well be reserved for those that remain neutral in times of crisis, but there might still be room left for those that perpetuate your dilemna by other means.
Good luck, America. Your election is a worthless charade as you only have two right-wing members of the same party. By eliminating Nader, Kucinich and others, you have already adopted the black-white discourse that guarantees you will never hear the real problems, let alone find solutions.
Even if they couldn’t or didn’t win, you could still listen to them ? No ?
“Democrats” and “Republicans” look all the same to me. Like sheep. With blinkers.
To Bruce—I can’t speak (or write) for van den Bosch, but I’d like to respond to your post. This is not in support of the Republican Party (which I think is almost as bad as the Democratic Party!) but a defense of some of what are commonly thought of as “conservative” principles. Again—Republicans do not always govern as conservatives.
What we need in this country is LESS GOVERNMENT, especially at the federal level. I agree that if you want to grow something on your property, you should be able to (as long as it doesn’t infringe on your neighbors’ rights somehow).
With respect to your complaint about paying your 15% FICA tax, what I think we need is to have NO FICA tax at all because we need to have NO federally-mandated inter-generational income transfer scheme (which is what Social Security is). Yes—I think we should eliminate Social Security (I would do it only for those under 40 on 1/1/05, but that’s a subject for another debate).
As for FDR—I don’t know of which statements you write, but I do know this. FDR was President when a lot of legislation was passed and signed that created the welfare state that we have toda, with its too-large, instrusive federal government and bureaucracy.
I will be voting for Pres. Bush in November just like I did in 2000 (it didn’t “count”—I live in Michigan). I will vote for him, not because I think he’s perfect or because I support everything he has done, but because he has 1) done what in his judgement he needed to do to protect this country (Afghanistan and, yes, Iraq) and 2) he is more likely to govern as a conservative than John Kerry is (despite the Medicare drug bill, campaign finance reform, and other decidedly non-conservative legislation he’s signed).
Thanks for reading.
I have never laughed and cried so much at the same time. Thanks Garrison.
G. van den Bosch - G. van den Bosch –
1. Excuse my mistake, but before you ‘outed’ yourself, you did not come right out and refer to the Bible as your source of moral clarity, and you did state that you were seeking moral clarity in your political leaders, hence my mistake. It is clear now that you are seeking leadership that agrees with your interpretation of the Bible, in word if not in deed. Thank you for clarifying that point. Please don’t pretend that you give equal credence or respect to the principles embodied in the Torah, Koran, or any other spiritual tradition. And it would be a healthy step to also acknowledge that you are a member of a group or church whose interpretation of the Bible is only one of many among practicing Christians.
2. Head Start is on the Republican hit list and will be gone very soon if Bush prevails. That is simply a fact. You can also say goodbye to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Housing programs, etc. I don’t know how things are where you are, but our churches and community groups are already collapsing under the burden of providing basic necessities for the homeless and hungry in our area. Incidentally, we have one of the lowest rates of unemployment in the country, yet poverty is rampant and visible.
3. Please don’t condescend to me. I stated that we should never believe that our ONLY option is to kill or be killed. I believe that true spiritual leaders from Christ to Ghandi have made this point the centerpiece of their teachings. I believe this tendency to think in such narrow terms is the sign of an immature mind. It is not a matter of wishing things were different, it is a matter of working to make them so. May I remind you that you are not God, and it is highly unlikely that God speaks through your candidate.
4. If you own a home, I will tell you that we all help you pay for your daughter’s clothes in the form of your mortgage interest and property tax deductions. We also paid your way when you worked for Head Start. By all means protect your family. The best way to do that is to see all the world as your family, including Iraqi children for example. Your points about Sudan and children imprisoned in Iraq are silly because I’ve already stated my position on those things.
Finally, I hope you will look carefully at the platform, policies and actions of the politicians you support for election. Obviously, you shall have to choose between the lesser of two evils and it will always be so for someone who is struggling to live in congruence with any humanitarian value system. However, it is an effort that must be made. Think Atticus Finch.
You are most welcome – and good morning!
Ah, more liberal nonsense. Funny how often the term “rhetoric” is used. Rhetoric is usually unsubstantiated speech. I didn’t find much of this article to be justified with any substantial arguments behind it. Just a bunch of name calling. Much similar to the Democratic platform of today—rhetoric.
“Hypocrisies shine like cat turds in the moonlight!” I think Twain would be proud.
For one of the few times I find myself disagreeing with Mr. Keillor. To say that the country is in hock “up to the hubcaps” doesn’t begin to plumb the depth of the debt. Vote!!!
All the usage of colorful adverbs and adjectives probably isn’t required, but you caught the sad truth. Through it made it a great read.
For those that think only the Republicans can deal with threats to America - I agree with the awareness
not with the implementation.
It’s a good time to remember what made America!
Adastra
Prayer for all Americans:those of faith or not.
Dear Higher Being(even higher power than George W Bush), Please know we are on the side of each of our God and not stating that God is on side. Please guide and protect the people of the United States who need your Grace more than any time in the history of our country.Yes, George bush must be defeated, but we are not praying just to have you decide an election, but rather to guide us to see the difference between EVIL and GOOD! Please help us to know that it is through love and respect and careing for one another that George Walker Bush will not be relected and never again to be in national government! Amen
Before I sign off for good (38 emails this morning was a bit much), I owe Joanne a “Never Mind” myself. I do appreciate her drawing G. out on his political evolution, and the moral contradictions therein. If I were a fundamentalist Christian, I would have a hard time reconciling the immorality of the Republican party—the lying (WMD, nonservice in the National Guard, rampant cocaine use W can’t bring himself to admit), the cheating (Enron, serial marriages among those most opposed to granting gays equal protection under the law, putting candidates in nomination—as the Republicans did in Illinois—who ask their wives for public blow jobs) and the stealing (Halliburton, ever-expanding budget deficits). I would wonder whether my Bible contains a loop-hole under “Thou shalt not kill” that allows the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents in Afghanistan and Iraq. I would wonder at the mercy of an Administration that wants to deny medical cannabis to dying cancer patients and to imprison their caregivers, while turning a blind eye (and perhaps worse) to the largest opium crop EVER harvested in Afghanistan.
The introduction of the fundamentalist Christian influence in our politics not only dishonors the wisdom of our founding fathers (and mothers) to keep church and state separate, but it puts us in a position to be unfavorably compared with the Taliban. They too believed that their actions were/are divinely inspired, and they seem to have a similar respect for women as our own “divinely inspired” politicians who want to deny women the right to choose their own lives and paths.
So to me, the moral decision this time is easy. I will vote for John Kerry, who quoted Lincoln so eloquently at the Democratic convention that we should not arrogantly brag—as the Republicans do—that “God is on (their) side” and instead humbly pray every day that “we are on God’s side.” My God made the heavens and the earth, and She put me here to be of service and to protect Her creation. So the moral choice for me is easy: Defend women. Defend children. Defend all peoples on the earth. Defend America. Defend the earth. Defeat Bush.
Thanks, Garrison, for stimulating so much heat and light this weekend. Now it’s time to go register more reawakening Americans, and throw the self-righteous and immoral bastards out. How’s that for a moral imperative? If Bush’s ignorance and arrogance has accomplished a reawakening of our democracy, then “it (truly) is all good.”
Good morning, a quick comment before I head off to work:
Joanne, our conversation here is illustrative for me on how difficult is is for us to dialogue during this time of polorization. We speak past each other, addressing stereotypes. we know so little about each other - our neighbors - that we simply fill in the blanks based on what we see in the media or hear spoken by our mates.
I remember a time when grownups would openly speak about Catholic priests fornicating with nuns and drinking the blood of innocents. During their childhood, these people watched actors dressed in blackface mimick sterotypes of “colored” people. during our own time, many Arab children are taught the Jews are the off-spring of monkeys.
Today, one of the groups stereotyped is “conservative Christian” or “Evangelical Christian or “Fundamentalist Christian”. It’s considered OK in the mass media and in polite conversations to stereotype this group and then to attack the stereotype. As in days before, the conversation usually begins with a disclaimer - I know they are not all like this but (in my youth I remember listening to people say, “I know there are some good niggers, but…”). Today, the “N word” is not used in polite conversation. But words like “Bible thumper” are used without hesitation.
Joanne, let me quickly address your points:
1. I hardly think I outed myself. I freely mention here as well as on my blog which is available for your consideration: http://bluegoldfish.blogs.com/surface/ my religious presupositions or world-view. I speak as a Reformed Christian (to be more precise, neo-Calvinist, if you care). I am not a fundamentalist. And of course I seek leaders who agree with me. Does anyone not do this? Is there something wrong with this? Nonetheless, I realize - as did our founders - that to make this country work, we must compromise. Every election is such and I am OK with this. As I have said repeatedly in this thread, We need each other and we can learn from each other. The fact that there is such a misunderstanding of where I am coming from abnd what I believe perhaps means that I may not have explained myself adequatel;y last night. Forgive me. It was late and I was also speaking with my daughter as I wrote.
2. I am not pretending to give equal credence or respect to the principles embodied in the Torah, Koran, or any other spiritual tradition. As a participant in a Democracy, I do. I fully expect those who draw their moral direction from such testaments - or from their own hearts or reason - for that matter - to do so before they enter the voting booth. That is what Democracy is all about. And as I respect the rights of those different from me, so, too, I expect their respect for my conscience and for my pursuit of happiness. And, apprently, there may be another stereotype operating here, so let me explicitly “acknowledge” (and celebtrate!)that (I am) “a member of a group or church whose interpretation of the Bible is only one of many among practicing Christians.” I do so, clearly.
3. On Head Start “on the Republican hit list and will be gone very soon if
Bush prevails”: Joanne, with all due respect, I believe that I have worked for that organization and also with other related government agencies in similar positions to let you know that Head Start is not on the chopping block. There are those with vested interests - oh I could tell you stories - who are using scare tactics for political (and funding) advantage. Head Start6 may very well be transferred to antoehr department (Education), but it will most certainly not be axed. What may be axed are the cushy careers of some Head Start administrators (I said administrators, not teachers)with fake doctoral degrees, inflated salaries, and a resistence to positive reforms. Joanne, trust me on this, I have years of experience and many examples I could cite.
4. “You can also say goodbye to Social
Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Housing programs, etc.” - simply not true. what evidence do you have?
5. “churches and community groups are already
collapsing under the burden of providing basic necessities for the homeless
and hungry in our area” - again, simply not true. Those groups and churches are actually thriving. Please cite me three examples if this is such a reality. Cite even one, for that matter. Simply not true. As someone working in this area, I know. Excuse me for sounding so certain, but I am.
6. “poverty is rampant and visible” - compared to what? To the rich or to the rest of the world? The average poor person in our country lives with television, airc conditioning, a patio and two rooms for each person in the household. This is more than the average *person* (I did not sday “poor person”) in PAris, Vienna, in all of Europe.
7. I did not intend to condescend you, and if you intereted anything I said in that light, I apologize. Again, I am writing rushed before I go to sleep or go to work. And I am sure you did not intend to condesced me when you say “I believe this tendency to think in such narrow terms is the sign of an immature mind.” or “May I remind you that you are not God ...”, etc.
8. I am well awayre of and grateful for the government assistannce in my life and in our lives. Again, I am a Republican and not a Libertarian.
9. And I hardly think my point on Children’s Prison or the genocide in Sudan weree silly. I think they are profound and I prefer to look at them head on.
10, Indeed, for a final point, I will llook carefully at the platform, policies andactions of the politicians I support for this election. We must all hold each otehr accountable.
I challenge you and the others reading this comment to do the same.
Final note: hae you ever read the letters or diaries of those who lived during the Civil War? They were filled with such misunderstanding, such prejudice, such ignorance. Ironically, today - even with 24/7 cable and Internet, we continue to really know so little about each other.
What can we do to “get back to Lake W.”? I mean, really get back. Something to think about.
I wish you peace and I wish you justice. As one American to antoher, let me wish you a good day. I hope our conversation has diminsihed the anger bwetween us and broken down at least some of the sterotypes that are set up between us.
What an excellent article! So eloquently stated! Thank you, Mr Keillor!
More war,
less freedom,
less healthcare,
less science,
lower wages,
more isolation,
more secrecy,
and more deception!
Be paytriotic
Vote Republican!
Ah, now I must go out and buy the book. This excerpt is absolutely wonderfully witty and right on the money.
My entire e-list has been sent a copy and I have received some wonderful feedback even from a few the “fence sitters” and Republicans. We need more “opinion pieces” along these lines sent to the local newspapers - albeit, perhaps not as witty. I would request that all those who posted comments do just that. I know I will.
You are a superb thinker and writer. Tune in to Prairie Home Companion as often as possible. Keep up the good work.
Nice. Doesn’t it say something when G.K. is making points like this. It’s not exactly his fun-and-friendly norm. He’s pretty mainstream. A lot of mainstream people are speaking up about politics in ways that is far from normal.
Some Republicans I know have noticed precisely what you’re saying, G.K., and are voting for Kerry. Although, most people who identify themselves as Republicans have not noticed the shift and keep voting, no matter what. Shouldn’t the people shape the Party, rather than the Party shaping the people? Tail wags the dog, unfortunately.
I made a website to voice my frustrations, and I’m not some crazy liberal.
::Scott
http://www.TheWeeklyBush.com
If Bush would have NOT gone to war with terror, you liberals would be persecuting him for THAT. Have you forgotten that the Democrats were 100% for going to war? Now you want to blame Bush because it hasn’t been easy? You know, the media fails to remind us of all of the good things that have come from Operation Iraqi Freedom (e.g. the removal of a ruthless dictator, schools, drinking water, etc. for Iraqi citizens)
Also, it really annoys me how the liberals think that the Republican/Conservative agenda is to “help” the rich and not the poor simply because tax cuts are NOT biased toward the lower or middle class. You know why the rich get a big tax cut??? THEY PAY MORE TAXES! Ever tried to start a business? Do you know how much money you pay in taxes? Ever mortgaged your house and taken a risk only to see that most of your money goes straight to the govt???? Guess what? The Govt. is not supposed to be a Robin Hood. Govt’s job is not to guarantee that you have a house, car, etc. These are all YOUR responsibility to attain. Read the Bill of Rights—you won’t find these listed among them. The Republican agenda is a smaller govt.
So, what IS govt’s main job? To protect us. God bless George W. Bush for doing just that.
-Drew
You go, Garrison!!!!
I am reminded of Alexander Pope, who said that the duty of a poet was to say “what oft was thought, but ne’er so well expressed.”
Garrison, you’re a poet!
Jane Hawes
Thank you Garrison. I think that fear and anger have causes SO many of us (republicans) to relinquish our logic and sensibility. We look at our president in the same way that we look at the WWF in that we know it’s not real, but we like watching someone bomb brown people on our behalf. If this administration is allowed to continute for another 4 years, I truly fear that our country will be doomed with the world hot on our heels. Oh how we slept through the 2000 election; exhousted after months and months of watching our leaders dragged through ugly scandal. We though that everything was going so well that nothing could ruin it in 4 years….how wrong we were. I’m happy o see that you have the guts to step forward to become food for the right wing pundit grinders like Hannity, and Limbaugh….........history will prove you a hero.
” Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.”
Put THAT on a T-shirt.
As great as this essay is, it’ll never change the minds of the people it talks about. They’re not about reasoned debate, they’re about winning. (Note the “we will win anyway” focus of the pro-Bush comments in this thread.) Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, and recent events have showed, they will do absolutely anything to keep it, including gaming the systems that have kept America free and strong for two centuries.
There is absolutely no antidote for this poison except for the broad, decent mainstream folks of America to wake up and vote against extremists. When the radical right is voted out of office it tends to dry up and blow away almost overnight, because power was its only lure.
This has to happen in Congress as well as the White House. Don’t just focus on the Presidential race, pay attention to your House and Senate elections as well, they are crucial.
Drew wrote:
“Guess what? The Govt. is not supposed to be a Robin Hood. Govt’s job is not to guarantee that you have a house, car, etc. These are all YOUR responsibility to attain. Read the Bill of Rights—you won’t find these listed among them. The Republican agenda is a smaller govt.”
Exactly right, Drew, and the 800,000 ADDITIONAL US children living in poverty this year (as compared to last) should have chosen their parents more wisely. The 1% increase in the child poverty rate (the third increase in a row!!) is proof that GWB’s vision-thing for America is WORKING! Screw compassion and charity; We’re Republicans!!
Drew also wrote:
“So, what IS govt’s main job? To protect us. God bless George W. Bush for doing just that.”
Could I ask a couple of questions on that point?
1) Who was in charge of national security at the time of, arguably, the biggest breach of national security ever? (Hint: it was a Republican.)
2) Got Goat?
Thanks GK. Matt.
After reading all of these responses, I understand now why the Republicans are headed for victory in November. Crackpot conspiracy theories (e.g., 2000 repeat), overwrought feelings (end of our Republic? HA HA HA), and generally emotional psychobabble. The problem is that Democrats think with their hearts rather than their heads. Try using some logic and argument for once. Then maybe a guy like John Kerry can figure out which way he wanted to vote on the war.
Mike Hunt wrote:
“Try using some logic and argument for once.”
I’m all for it, Mike. Yes, there have been some overheated and over-the-top statements on here, but I figure most GK fans are logical, reasonable people. So give us one good, logical reason to vote for GWB’s reelection, and I bet a bunch of us jump on board.
Thanks.
Matt Barker.
Thank you Garrison for Nailing it so Eloquently. Those who can, must speak up Now. It is too late already for Thousands of mained and murdered Iraqis and Americans. Our earth is being poisoned with industrial toxins and detonated uranium. Our Treasured Forrests are being cut. Who would have dreamed it ?
One thing that has really amused me as one who grew up a Slavic American in the Cold War, is that Bush is so fond of that old KGB Putin! Putin is his SOULMATE! Where the hell is McCarthy when he is needed?
In actual fact Putin is an unreconstructed Soviet who has conned Bush cleverly into sitting on Central Asia for the greater good of Mother Russia. He is a very clever man who has led an all too willing victim down the garden path.
In fact I’ve found the neo-con friendship for other old communist leaders highly amusing, what with them defending Milosevic on the right wing talk shows so often. These people doing the defending never had to wonder if the water they drank had been too close to a mass-grave and ought to be boiled. But what do you expect out of people whose leaders made their money off concentration camps? Who still make their money off Chinese PLA prison camp factories? I’ve had to educate a few of these ‘traler trash’ Republicans that shop at Walmart about the truth of where the cheap goods are made! When they know the truth it really hurts their stomachs.
well now what?!? eloquence will only get us so far. the kerry campaign for some reason does not seem to fully grasp what is at state. A common modern liberal error has been that we are too calibrated in our responses. FOLKS this is not a college debate; this election is for the very soul of our nation—but the kerry folks are still treateing this election cycle as an intellecutal exercise.
the american voter was action, decisiviness, and aleartnss. (pardon the typos) but Kerry has failed on those fronts.
We need him to clearly articulate what is at stake; and then challenge the voters. But no! he has terry mcauliffe and others trying to answer bush via tit for tat.
WAKE THE HELL UP or we will have Bush for the next 4; and then here comes Frist!
Garrison, what a profoundly frustrating capture of GW Bush, the Darth Vader of the United States, killing us abroad literally and figuratively, and at home. I applaud your brillant assessment. I was raised in a Republican family of the 50s and unfortunately my siblings are still stuck there. I’ll vote to change the White House—pray that happens.
Matt Barker wrote:
” the 800,000 ADDITIONAL US children living in poverty this year (as compared to last) should have chosen their parents more wisely. The 1% increase in the child poverty rate (the third increase in a row!!) is proof that GWB’s vision-thing for America is WORKING! Screw compassion and charity; We’re Republicans!!”
There’s so much wrong with this viewpoint, I’m not even sure where to begin. First of all, let me again repeat what I said earlier: Even CHILDREN don’t have the RIGHT to shelter, food, clothing, etc. Therefore, it’s not the job of the govt. to provide these things. Every child born in America is not entitled to be born into a family that has a home, a car, etc. If I could guarantee that my child (who will be born in Feb.) will have all of these things when he is born, why should I keep working? I could just let the govt. provide it, right? You think THAT’s the solution? Bush believes in faith-based initiatives to resolve this. There are plenty out there. If you really care to fix the problem, you could donate your money to these organizations (for the sake of the argument, I’ll inform you that I do) and not the govt. Let’s face it, paying higher taxes to the govt. is the LEAST effective way to solve the poverty issue.
Also, let me ask you this: why do you think people live in poverty to begin with? Is it really because they or their parents never had the opportunity to work hard and get out of poverty? I’m not even going to go into the magnitude of opportunities that everyone already has here in America. Different jobs pay different wages because of simple supply and demand. It’s a lot harder to go become a doctor than it is to sweep floors for instance. Shouldn’t you get paid more for your efforts?
The liberal viewpoint—>“the govt. will take care of me even if I drop out of school.” Whatever happened to “reaping what you sow?” That’s not cold-hearted. That’s justice. It also provides incentive to those that DO work hard to get ahead (without getting taxed out the yin-yang).
You’ve heard the expression: “Money doesn’t grow on trees.” Wonder how all of the wealthy people got rich??? THEY WORKED FOR IT! Wow…what a concept! How long has it been since you read the grasshopper and the ant story?
One word Garrison - AMEN! However it is sad that old Bush does not have enough knowledge of the English language to know what you have written - let alone the smarts to understand your ‘fancy’ words. This old girl is proud to be a Democrat and not afraid to take a stand. I am so sick of Bush and ‘Bushisms’. He is an embarrasment to the USA and what she stands for.
Keillor should know dull. Have you ever tried to make it through one of his radio shows or read any of his books. By the way, the Heinz family wouldn’t have partaken in any of the corporate greed aforementioned, would they?
Drew wrote:
“Even CHILDREN don’t have the RIGHT to shelter, food, clothing, etc.”
I guess that points up a fundamental difference in our values. I’m not willing to entrust the nation’s children to the whims of the free enterprise system and the “go f*** yourself” greedheads running the government.
I too give a considerable amount of money to private charities, both faith-based and secular. But the Census Bureau’s new child poverty statistics don’t give me much comfort that non-governmental solutions are sufficient. The problem has become steadily worse during the President’s term, not better. How long do we have to wait until we see some results?
So we can say “let them starve if the private sector doesn’t step up” or we can say “our children are at least as worthy of government subsidies as is big oil.”
You decide. M.
I disagree with Drew. I believe that Children DO have a right to food shelter and healthcare. Drew, it’s people like you that scare me most in America. Honestly opinioned people who don’t feel connected to the suffering of anyone other than them and their own. Do you honeslty think that everyone who is rich got that way by hard work?? Do you think that George bush WORKED hard to be in a position of priviledge that allowed him to fail UPWARD for decades on his fathers name and connections? Nevertheless, part of what’s WRONG with the american consciousness. When jobs and opportunity are low…..we do our best to hoard and cordon ourselves off from everyone else. Bill Clintons economic legacy was to show that when the least of us feels safe and supported by society, we ALL flourish.
Sadly, it’s your mentality that will ultimately lead to the downfall of our country if it takes hold. It is the type of divisive “me vs. them” outlook that every other nation in the world looks at when they reject America. When a child born in the inner city has funding for headstart. This is a child PROVEN to have a lesser likelyhood of becoming a victim of the streets and ultimately less likely to become a criminal who preys on everyone else (you and me)!
George Bush believes, as did Reagan, that if we can get the rich to flourish to some imaginary critical mass, the breadcrumbs from their table alone will “Trackle down” to benefit the rest of the working class. Newsflash: it didn’t work!
Clinton believed that if we empowered the working and middle class by increased spending on education, healthcare, and community uplift by increasing taxes on the top 10% of Americans (none of which you or I know), we all would rise as a country. News flash: it worked!!
Now we’re back to making the rich richer and the poor poorer as sound economic policy and a part of compassionate conservatism. I don’t care what your take on any specific policy may be, but if you back up a few paces and SQUINT, you’ll see how simple things can be. Nothing has improved since George Bush took office. Name ONE thing that is better in your life now, than before 2000, then name all of the many things that have gone DOWN since 2000 and the answer is simple. This country (regardless of your personal politics) have gone BAD since George Bush took office. To despute that basic fact would fly in the face of all logic. Period.
Wow! Thank you for writing this. Those of us in Republican strongholds like mine love hearing that there are more of us out there who understand the dangerousness of what is happening and I am hoping to convince more of my neighbors of the same.
Becky
Naturally, this discussion has degenerated into name-calling and references to sexual proclivities, as these things always do. Few have responded to the Yankee-hater. His comments chilled my blood, but as least he offered a rationale for supporting W that I can understand—revenge.
Fellow patriots, try to stay strong and don’t give into the fear and rage we all feel but must resist. We may not win, but we can go down fighting, knowing we did what we could.
Mr. former liberal, I don’t know what happened to you, but you are right about the grief. We will be in deep mourning for the country we grew up believing in, that our loved ones fought and died for, ultimately, perhaps, in vain. I am braced for despair, though I haven’t given up hope yet. Kerry may not be our savior, but his election would at least be a sign that We the People denounce the actions (and the inactions) of the despot(s) now in charge, and it will prove that democracy still lives. If we fail, the pain will be hard to bear. Maybe we can keep fighting, maybe we’ll fight harder, maybe there will be a revolution, or another civil war, or maybe, yes, the end of the world. Maybe business can continue as usual for years to come. Who can predict? I have a feeling our American landscape could take on a new and shocking appearance, charred and broken. We shall see. All I plan to do is take it as it comes, fight it as comes, as best I can. My head may end up in the sand with everyone else’s, if I can no longer bear to look. I’m no hero. Our best hope is to bond together, stand together, and if we do that I promise I will stand with you. May God help us all.
The problem with what Gwen McKenna wants is that it dovetails exactly with what Karl Rove wants. The hardball operatives of the neocon junta are perfectly happy to see liberalism go down in a magnificent display of honorable virtue - as long as it goes down.
For the nouveau Right it’s like what Vince Lombardi said: winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing. Of course they brush serious debate aside in favor of name-calling and dirty tricks, because *that’s what works*. If it stopped working they’d stop doing it in a heartbeat.
The way to make it stop working is to make moderate intelligence politics the “new hotness.” A lot of money goes to the far right because people are convinced they’re going to win anyway and they want to support the winning side. Puncture the illusion of invincibility and the money will evaporate.
Great article, Mr. K.
As I walked in New York City yesterday with the other 250,000+ Americans who oppose the neoconderthal’s who run this country (run it into the ground, actually), I met not a few of the delegates to their stageshow cum convention. Absolutely clueless without an exception. One woman, literally with a tear in her eye, actually stopped me and asked, “Why are you doing this? Are you trying to destroy our country? I really don’t understand what you are protesting against!” When I pointed out to her the newest numbers on those living in poverty, those without healthcare, the underfunding of education, etc. not to mention the illegal war W has gotten us into, her eyes glazed over and all she could say was, “But we have to be safe. George Bush will make us safe.” It was then I realized that these folk may truly lack critical reasoning abilities.
Sad, how sad.
Paul
I fear that Amerika has fallen into the darkest of times. Personal freedom and liberty is rapidly dissapearing, if not gone.
I find that many of my friends, aquaintances and client are afraid to state/post their feelings and beliefs via eMail, on-line forums or even using cell phones. Well, this American has not!
Homeland Security - HA! Republican Security, possibly. I, for one, may not fly any more. Not because I am concerned over [my] safety, but because I refuse to play their cattle car games.
Why are we in Afganistan/Iraq? I have one rule - Follow the money - who stands to profit? This question may be extended to the World Trade Center bombings as well…
Samuel
This is a courageous piece by a man who has a great deal to lose by speaking out in these troubled times. A large percentage of his audience and fan base is in the so-called red states. Bravo.
I grew up in the 50s. This used to be a great country full of hope, ideas, and pretty decent folks (along with some real wack jobs). The worst thing we had was Charlie Starweather.
What happened?
I have a grandchild coming.
And it makes me sad.
Nice piece of writing Garrison.
<<(along with some real wack jobs)>>
Somehow you have let the “Whack-Jobs” take over the asylum. The world is petrified of what is happening to your country. PLEASE get it together before it’s too late.
Brilliantly written piece. Thank you.
Vote!
Mr. Keillor certainly does have a way with words. One point he makes at the end, though, undermines a lot of what he said before. “This is a great country, and it wasn’t made so by angry people. We have a sacred duty to bequeath it to our grandchildren in better shape than however we found it. We have a long way to go and we’re not getting any younger.” To me he seems much angrier than the people he’s criticizing. Furthermore, the people he’s complaining about are a big part of the heart and soul of the country. They are not mean-spirited or cold-hearted. They are church-going ordinary people who are trying in their own ways to cope with the deterioration in values that they see around them – values that, by the way, are corroded by more than Enrons and Halliburtons. Sunshine liberals in Hollywood and cynical intellectuals do their share of damage. What is needed is another great leader like Lincoln or Roosevelt who can reconnect the better instincts of these people with a political agenda that offers something more than unimaginative reruns of the liberal and conservative programs of the last 50 years. I think that’s why neither political party can command a significant majority. It’s as David Brooks described in the NY Time this Sunday. “It has become like World War I. Each party is down in its trench, lobbing the same old arguments, relying on the same old coalitions. Neither party is able to gain a lasting advantage. Neither party is able to accomplish much that it is proud of. Trench warfare finally ended because somebody invented the tank.
It is time for one party or another to invent the tank, some new governing philosophy that will broaden its coalition and transform the partisan divide. For Republicans, the progressive conservative governing philosophy is the tank. It is the approach to politics best suited to the emerging suburban civilization, best suited to life during a war on Islamic extremism. It is the way Republicans can build a governing majority and leave a positive mark on the nation and its destiny.”
It could just as well be the Democrats who invent the tank. Maybe it will be an entirely new coalition of interests from both parties. I don’t care who does it as long as it gets done.
As a fellow Minnesotan and longtime fan of GK, I’m glad to see him move from his ironic and (only mildly) amusing profession after the 2000 election debacle that “we’re all Republicans now,” and finally put both light and heat where it belongs.
For us liberals, I might offer some small ray of hope that Rove Juggernaut, Inc. may not be the precision manufacturer of hype and slime they’re reputed to be: I received a mailing last week that I was chosen to complete a survey as “the best person to represent Edina (my hometown) as a Republican Voter in Minnesota.” Ironically, I also received a survey from the ACLU and an invitation to join. Guess which survey I’ll be filling out and enclosing a check to?
It’s not often I get a peek at the opposition party’s correspondence to “the faithful.” I was struck by two things:
1. Any contribution to “Bush-Cheney ‘04, Inc. during the general election report period may be re-designated to the Bush-Cheney ‘04 General Election Legal and Compliance Fund to be used only for legal and accounting expenses during the general election.”
Does that mean they’re already passing the hat to contest what may be a perilously close election?
2. “What can you do right now to help the President? Watch your mailbox. Look for your absentee ballot request. Sign and return it. Make sure your vote counts. Then come help the President by volunteering to get your neighbors to the polls on Election Day.”
On the face of it, this seems to be a contradictory message—send your ballot in (so it will be assured of being counted) and then bust your butt to haul other Republicans to the polls, even though the electronic voting machines may not be working (or haven’t yet been rigged).
In any event, it would seem prudent for as many Democrats and sympathetic Republicans as possible to cast their votes for Kerry via absentee ballot, just to be on the safe side. There must be a reason that the Bushies are being encouraged to do so.
Tim
Dear Anser,
You make a good point. When I read about reformed liberals embracing Bush because of his “moral clarity,” I feel overwhelmed that the world has gone mad and we can only cling to the shreds of our beliefs before they burn up and we plunge into the abyss. If we can get savvy we may have hope. The problem is, liberals have become either no-compromise-both-sides-are-corrupt Naderites, or get-out-the-vote-and-hope-for-the-best-but-god-help-us-all-if-it-doesn’t-work borderline defeatists (like me), who have no idea what happens next even if we do win. Or, in extreme cases, defectors who (I guess) just couldn’t take it anymore. How can you get idealists and bitter former idealists on board with your plan? More to the point, I guess, is how do you generate the illusion that everybody’s on board? If Kerry could convince people that he & his peeps know what they’re doing, just give them the reins and everything will be under control, it would work. Certainly he could say this more convincingly than W can, yet no one seems to be convinced yet. It is already “hot” to hate Bush, but we need more.
Mr. Keillor makes his point well, as always. He also touches upon a few things that I have been ruminating over for several days now.
I live in a “red” state (hint: same one GW claims to as his homestate - only, I was actually born here). It follows that I number quite a few Republicans among my friends. Most of them are actually good, honest, compassionate people. Like me, most of them seem to care about the future of our nation and the good of our people. Our disagreements - and we do disagree quite vigorously sometimes - are over how to approach these things. These are good people and (as best I can tell, being no expert) good Republicans.
Having said that, I cannot understand how these good, honest, compassionate Republicans I know could possibly support this administration. Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft - not to mention their allies in Congress like DeLay - are not good Republicans. They’re not good citizens. Hell, they’re not even good human beings. One wants to scream at the good Republicans, “Is this REALLY the best your party can do???”
I think Keillor is on to something here. The GOP is not the party of Lincoln anymore. It is no longer the party of Teddy Roosevelt, or of Eisenhower, maybe not even the party of Reagan (no matter how much I disagreed with Reagan’s policies, I always believed, at least, that he was an honorable and decent man). Bob Dole has retired from public life, and John McCain is not getting any younger either, and there are no younger moderates stepping up to fill their shoes. Maybe it is because there are none left.
It saddens me, as a Democrat, to see what the Republican Party has become. When one party sinks so low, might the other not be far behind? And then, what happens to our country?
Brilliantly written. There is alot of brilliant writing around at the moment, describing eloquently the terrible state of the USA.
BUT
And thats a big but.
One of you has to step up to the plate and write something that approaches a solution to your problems. You can wax lyrical till the end of time about how america has gone to hell, and nothing will change. That is the crucial difference between you and your colleagues and the Republican/Corporate/Neocon/Pigopolist axis. They TAKE ACTION to make their nighmare come true, you sit and write. They will always win unless you change your tactics.
I will help you. Now.
If you think that voting will change anything, you are sadly mistaken. John Kerry’s platform is absolutely dreadful and business as usual. You can vote untill the cows come home or the fat lady sings, and nothing in your country will change.
You need to fatally and permanently cripple your government so that it can never threaten you or anyone outside the USA again. If you are not willing to do that, to defang that terrible monster that you feed every april, then do not bother to write these beautiful screeds, because they are impotent infant pacifiers that keep the problem unsolved.
The next thing you write must be The New American Manifesto, where the people take back control of the destiny of that land and its position in the world. If you are not able to do this, or if you for any reason are unwilling to do this, then you must return to your normal life and cease all complaining, because you are a failure, and a part of the problem.
Dante’s words on neutrality are fitting. In your case, and in the case of all the eloquent writers, today in the 21st century, neutrality equates exactly with eloquence. You are neutral if you do not offer a plan. You are a part of the problem if you do not have uppermost in your agenda, the need to permanently solve the problem of who runs your country.
There are no two ways about this. America will cease to exist if you do not take action. If you rely on Democracy to bring the fix to your door you are delusional. Democracy is for the hellbound, the Swiss, The Norwegians and the other civilized countries. It is for places that are orderly quiet and stable. America doesnt have time for democracy - it cannot fix your problems. American democracy is a thumb in the mouth of a retarded child, it is political vallium. If you swallow it, if you suck your thumb like a retard, you will be destroyed, and no one in the world wants to see that happen.
The world needs america to right itself. The world needs to see that great country return to the days of Eisenhower (without the ignorance and discrimination obviously). If you can do this, and I can think of no other country where such a turnaround can happen, then you will be leading by example, the world will follow willingly, and we will all reap the benefits.
Should you fail….
News item: On the new World War II Washington DC Memorial there will be a gold star for every 100 American soldiers killed.
We Got Gold Stars
We got gold stars
For spelling bees
We got gold stars
For Japanese
And German kids
We killed before
They killed us first
We killed them more
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids
We got gold stars
On winding shrouds
We got gold stars
Our folks were proud
We got gold stars
In Jr. High
And then we all
Were asked to die
We got gold stars
And we got killed
We got gold stars
The generals thrilled
To let us make the sacrifice
We got gold stars
And that was nice
We got gold stars
We were all brave
We got gold stars
On every grave
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids
We got gold stars
For dropping bombs
A folded flag
Went to our moms
We got gold stars
Because we died
We got gold stars
For suicide
We got gold stars
Because we served
We got gold stars
What we deserved
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids.
Not one gold star
For every child
Not one star each
That would have piled
Those stars like corpses
On those walls
A thousand miles
To hold them all.
A thousand miles
Of lifeless suns
Of endless dead
From endless guns
A thousand miles
Of children’s names
An endless silent shriek of shame.
We got gold stars
Our parents grieved
We got gold stars
Like autumn leaves
We got gold stars
We died like men
We’re sending children
Off again
We’re sending children
Off again
We got gold stars
For what we did
A gold star
For each one hundred kids
- Richard Marcus
Thank you Garrison Keillor! Your words were well appreciated, and I hope that your words are heard by all.
Great article, but I don’t buy the goodness of Eisenhower…don’t forget he has blood on his hands in the Congo…same as our country does in Guatemala, W. Timor and Chile…Chile and Guatemala 2 democratically elected governments. We had the potential to be a great country…still do…but methinks that has probably passed us by…as Shakespeare taught us in MacBeth…power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely ... unfortunately, I feel we’ve gone down that road that bent in the undergrowth…and we probably will regret it. We already do.
Think about it, the number of people killed or missing in Guatemala alone, 200,000, that doesn’t include the number of people tortured, the number of children left orphans, the number of villages wiped out. How many twin towers can be divided into 200,000? and for some 40 years? We have much blood on our hands.
In the spirit of Dante, I have spoken my piece.
Bush by the numbers:
Nearly 1,000 Americans dead in Iraq, along with about 15,000 Iraqi civilians, despite the fact Iraq had nothing to do with Sept. 11.
Zero weapons of mass destruction.
At least 1.2 million fewer jobs.
At least 8.2 million jobs short of the president’s own modest goal of adding 7 million jobs (more than 22 million jobs were created during Clinton’s eight years).
About 5 million more Americans under the poverty line.
More than $1 trillion added to the national debt.
Thousands of Americans and good folks from scores of other nations dead in New York after the worst lapse in domestic security in U.S. history, after eight months of the president dismissing all things Clinton, including focusing on terrorism, and a record-setting pace for presidential vacation time.
Zero meetings with anti-terror chief Richard A. Clarke, a lifelong Republican.
Zero Predator spy-drone flights over Afghanistan.
So ...
Why is the party of Honest Abe Lincoln and trust buster Teddy Roosevelt handing its nomination back to a lazy, cowardly liar who built a war on a foundation of falsehood and is bankrupting the nation to shovel tax cuts to the greedy?
Republicans, please put patriotism ahead of your partisanship.
A light, sweet, cheerful, happy, kind, loving, tolerant, uplifting, inspiring, attractive, positive and supremely optimistic assesment of current affairs! Thank you for the ultimate example of “the way to be”.
Bravo GC, well done! Encore! Ritalin!
Dear Mr. Keillor,
I grew up listening to your voice in the badlands of North Dakota on my grandparent’s horse ranch. Cowboy poetry, crickets, and meadow larks (and words/songs from Prairie Home Companion) were the “music” I imprinted on. Being a child of the 80’s, though, I couldn’t help being seduced by hip hop, too. I just wrote a song which I’d love for you and your readers to hear BEFORE the election. It’s called “Suspicious” and the link is this: http://www.popghetto.com/home.html
This is not a promotional pitch. It’s a gift from one “North Country” boy to another (in trade for your brilliant, down-to-earth essay.) Thank you.
when you have absolutely nothing to offer, you launch a hate filled attack like this one - what a shame that so many have praised it - read it again and ask yourself if the direct comparisons of Republicans to Nazis and other despicables of the past is really what you want to be saying and supporting - if it is, this country is in a good deal more trouble than Keillor suggests and you Dems and your attitudes are far more a part of the problem than you are a part of the solution -
Bravo, Garrison Keillor. Perhaps in more ascerbic rhetoric than I’d have employed, this is what’s been on my mind—a life-long, fifth generation Republican who cast his first vote for Eisenhower in 1956. What is occurring to the Grand Old Party with which I grew up is acutely troubling. My great-great grandfather, and great-grandfather, who helped found the Republican Party in 1856 when it stood for “Free Soil, Free Men and Fremont” must be spinning in their respective graves. Even my father (by anyone’s definition, a “black Republican,” as that term was used in those days), who was a candidate for State Assembly in California in 1938, insisted we listen to FDR’s “fireside chats,” especially during WW II. And, both FDR and Eleanor Roosevel were despised in some quarters in those days; the mind-set is infinitely worse today. Where are we going with this “bitter-end” politics that Keillor describes? It ought to be disturbing to all Americans, Republicans and Democrats alike.
Sadly, we have a President who believes that Democracy is anything his Vice President, Attorney General or Secretary of Defense tell him it is; he is the most incurious, anti-intellectual President since Warren Harding. What a tragedy for this nation, and for the world.
Whenever I think of all the damage done to our nation and its standing in the world by the occupiers of our government, I just want to cry.
Ah, yes, the party of emotion. It can be such fun when laughs are all that are at stake.
If you’re alive to laugh, and the Mullahs allow it.
Well said Mr. K
Might I add this of my own?
Here we go again!
Well here we go, kids, it’s that time again! It’s time to play “Lets Bullshit the Electorate” the family fun game that can be played by young and old alike. Brought to you this year by the folks at Enron, Halliburton, Brown and Root and the good folks at Raytheon where “We help you blow up things, all right!”
And Hey!! Lets not forget the guys that made the last four years possible, the good folks of the G.O.P. Lets give ‘em all a big hand!! And speaking of big hands, where would we be today without the big hand the Supreme Court and Florida’s own Governor Jeb Bush gave our winner in 2000’s contest. Come on, let’s give ‘em a big round of applause!!
As you know this is a special game that only gets played every four years. It’s the game where corporate America and the residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue try their best to pull the wool over the eyes of the voting public in an attempt to retain control of the much coveted “Reins of Power” for another four years.
The winner of the contest is awarded an all expense paid, all you can eat seat at the public trough for his family and closest friends generously provided by …. (Drum roll please) that’s right - you, the American taxpayer! That’s four years complete with luxury accommodations in four star suites around the world and free unlimited executive air transportation to destinations of his choosing.
Sound too good to be true? Well that’s not all, nothing’s too good for our commander and thief so how about the ability to double his own well deserved salary and as an added bonus he will receive the powers of “executive privilege” to help him through those delicate times when full disclosure and transparency might be inconvenient all that coupled with immunity from prosecution from a long list of crimes should make that four years a time to remember.
And for the year 2004 George Bush and his carefully chosen team of movers and shakers and image makers are hard at work chasing photo ops and sound bites designed specifically to sway your vote. All that combined with spun facts, half truths, out right lies and the biggest war chest of any incumbent President in history, should provide us with the most entertaining election day ever!! Will it be a “Slam Dunk”? Or will it be close down to the wire ? That’s up to you and me folks, when the time comes take the time to take your turn and vote.
Keith Hupp
Chugiak
Ak.
Ack. I’m gonna be sick. Imagine a world w/ Al Gore at the helm on 9/11. We’d still be debating economic sanctions on the Taliban.
Thank God for George Bush.
Ah yes I am soooo afraid Dan S. I’m sorry but I lost my fear the first time I was shot at in real combat. Ever since then it just really makes me angry. If you wish to be scared go ahead it is your right but don’t bother me with your closet fears. I am too busy living my life. That’s what the rest of you should be doing also. Your chanes are better to be drafted and die in combat that to ever have a terrorist do you any bodily harm.
I traveled to Hong Kong on the first day of this illegal and immoral war and then on to the Philippines and returned 10 days later. My only fear was that the boders of the US would be closed to foreign travel. It was also during the SARS epidemic. Guess what?? Didn’t die from that either. Maybe I just trust to much in GOD to be scared. Oh wait, doesn’t Bush have a person pipeline to HIM?
Don’t understand why so many scared republicans on this thread. Isn’t there a venue closer to your political bent than this? Shouldn’t you all be watching your Nero on TV?
As always, Garrison Keillor (immensely enjoyed your appearance at the Kerry rally in Tacoma, WA, on Saturday, August 28th, by the way - beautiful harmonizing on your part as you led the crowd in singing ALL the verses of “America the Beautiful” - which should be our official national anthem, if you ask me…) AHEM! As I was saying, Garrison Keillor is right on target from start to finish. No big surprise there.
But I tell you this. As surely as the sun will come up the day after November 2, 2004, if George W. Bush wins this presidential election, this country (and indeed the entire world) is absolutely, inevitably bound for Revolution - and not merely late ‘60s/early ‘70s social revolution, but real, 1789 French Revolution, 1776 American Revolution, real 1917 Russian Revolution. A government such as that which we are experiencing now, and such as that which Garrison so frighteningly foresees here, cannot, will not stand. There will be blood in the streets as we take our country back; if not, prepare yourselves for the Second Coming - of Germany in the 1930s. If ever there were a time to study Western Hemisphere History over the past 250 years, this is it. Odd, isn’t it? In our situation in 2004 America, those who do *not* ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
And believe me - I am no Marxist, foaming-at-the mouth-leftist radical. I am a classic liberal Democrat. If Bush & Co. win in November, I will be girding my loins and preparing for the struggle and, yes, the bloodshed that will surely be to come. This savage and dangerous attempt at world dominance and tyranny can not stand - no more now than it did when the Roman Empire fell; no more now than it did in early 19th-century Europe during the scourge of the Napoleonic wars; no more now than it did during the wild rampage of the German-Italian-Japanese Axis of World War II.
Yet, this can all be avoided. Let us all hope, with all our hearts and all our minds and all our faith and all our strength, that what I have predicted above does not come to pass. It is actually quite simple: either John Kerry (or, for that matter, you, me, my dog, ANYone but “Dubya”), is elected in November 2004, or chaos, bedlam, yes, perhaps even armageddon, will, as sure as the sun rises, happen sooner than any of us can possibly imagine.
What exactly is the difference between a White House “controlled” by Halliburton, et al and one controlled by the trial lawyers? Last time I checked, the lawyers had forced over 100 real companies into bankruptcy over bogus claims and science involving implants, asbestos, and a myriad of other opportune targets - that’s what we’ll get with Kerry/Edwards occupying 1600 Penn Ave - please tell me how good that will be….......
Garrison, Now I love you more than ever. Thank you for your profound words and insights.
Garrison,
My turds don’t shine, even in the moonlight. What sort of turds did you have in mind when you came up with that phrase? Or is that a Minnisotan colloqialism?
Regards,
FD
I find Garrison Keillor’s ignorance of Ike amusing. Ike funded the Interstate Highway System for military purposes.
After seeing the autobahns of Hitler’s Germany and knowing the asset those highways were to the Germans (for blitzkriegs and also to supply a two front war), Ike decided to fund and build the US interstate.
Nice bunch of insults. I love it when Democrats ask me “what happened to my party” ...as if they care.
Typical liberal, communist hate speech.
Congrats :)
Is this why Republicans have embraced the gun? I doubt the troops will fire on angry Americans , but they won’t have to. All our nut-case friends on the right will take care of things (apologies to gun-nuts on the left, if any).
Protestors in New York, listen up. Save your powder for a future use. Continue being sweetness and light, the better to sooth an ugly world.
...and John Kerry???? Oh please Garrison, lead us through the bombing of Lake Wobegon after one of your shows….the Democrats never have been able to be honest about anything, until they get caught in their lies and even then there are no condemnations…just bigger book sales….eight years in command and where were the critcal changes in the environment…labor…race….sex in the work place…all talk…all blame game and nothing done…it’s almost like a weekend radio variety show,hosted my a myopic bitter mid-westener, who’s stuck in the Lutheran “I’m right your wrong syndrome”....As an independent environmental activist I have seen how the Democrats in my community actively destroyed the open space and public lands in our city and have run our state into economic and environmental ruin! So much for the B.S. about Republicans…. I guess I have finally seen the man behind the curtain…I wish I hadn’t.
Eric
Thank you, Garrison for a dose of medicine to help keep me sane. You speak of so many issues that are virtually ignored by the press and by the general population that I still struggle with the reality that, by and large, Americans are dopey sheep that simply live off of their spiralling consumerism and debt and receive their brainfood via TV. For the first time in my life, I can understand how the Civil War came about, only this time I feel I’m from the North, and Lincoln’s old party now represents the aristocracy and the Deep South. After over three years of this administration’s behavior, I still see no recongnition of what’s going on from those devoted followers of Bush. I really can’t imagine what will bring humanity and humility back to the table. Well, actually I can: years of depression/recession cycles and a battering of our national pride, much like the Germans endured for their duplicity in the events of the 30s and 40s.
Thank you for speaking your mind, Mr. Keeler. You are my hero.
Just one more afterthought… Garrison: It may seem amazing for so many people that anyone could even think of voting for this fellow, by far the worse prezdint we have ever had, a fellow who within a few short years has bankrupted the country, set us in a state of permanent war against shadows he and his cabinet have created, has appealed to everything America is at its darkest, craven, narrow-minded, rigid and prehensile to boot. Strange, though, that people wonder where the GOP of yore and Ike has gone. Well, I believe the sedate and yet booming, fairly peaceful Fifties is not the aim of the GOP these days, and hasn’t been since the reign of Reagan, who is the one who introduced us to greed, power, to using resources as we please, and to wage war for economic benefit and be proud of it as well. These are the Republicans who would like to roll back the progress made not since Ike, but since people like Roosevelt, who actually turned America into a respected and appreciated world power. For current GOP policy, I think you’ll have to go back to the 1880s or somewhere back then. These are carpetbaggers, not politicians. Their idea is to replace social security with some vague notion of family values couched in allegedly Christian terms, the religion of Pat Robertson, for example, who made a mint soaking the yokels, and forgive me if anyone is insulted, but that is a fact. But as PT Barnum put it, there’s one born every day. Suckers who refuse to use their god-given brains to figure out what a child of ten could: The Prezdint—and his entourage of carpetbaggers—is a complete and utter fraud. Period. But I really liked your piece Garrison. Here in Europe I have given up “defending” the USA, since there is hardly anything to defend. But the little treasures left are people like you, Michael Moore, Greg Palast, Curtis White and many others. Keep at it.
1. Two of the US’s political parties voted in majority to pass the “Patriot Act”.
2. Two of the US’s political parties voted in majority to allow George Jr. to attack Iraq.
These two parties acted, and are acting, in unison for one goal: Re-election.
HAD THESE ‘REPRESETATIVES’(i pray they really don’t anymore) BEEN ACTING FOR YOUR GOOD THEY SHOULDN’T HAVE PASSED EITHER ONE OF THESE.
Both of those represented a MASSIVE FAILURE on the part of the elected officals in the US.
Ladies and Gentleman, years of accepting that ‘My Party is right’ by pure name sake, has led us here.
THIS FAILURE IS AS MUCH OUR FAULTS AS IT IS THE GREEDY ELITES WHO SPEND YEARS TRAVELING THE NATION AND THE WORLD ON OUR DOLLARS SO THEY CAN FIND RE-ELECTION.
The only solution would seem an increased public awareness/action in its governing.
WE NEED CREATIVITY GARRISON. THE TIME TO BE PARTISIAN TO MULE OR ELEPHANT IS PAST.
We must be partisian to the Human.
GOD FORGIVE AND HELP US ALL.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another,..., a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States…
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry, Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery,Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott, William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris, Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark, Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross, Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean, Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton, George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton, William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn, Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton, Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
Dear Mr. Keillor, I have thoroughly enjoyed your book which expands on the topic of this article (“Homegrown Democrat”) and want to join those who have issued their hearty “amens” on your treatment of the topic here. You have certainly issued an accurate and scathing indictment—all the more scathing for how calmly and reasonably you put it—and summary of how the “Grand Ol’ Party” has morphed into the GANGRENOUS OLD PRICKS. TRUE Republicans everywhere should hang their heads in shame and disavow themselves from this disgusting fiasco of fratboy sandbox bullies.
And you? You, my dear Mr. Keillor, with your nail-on-the-head realism and your talent for a well-turned phrase that carries its own weight without tooting its own horn, should do more writing in this vein. God bless you.
Oh and by the way, that Andrew Oedipus (or whatever) who posted on page one? That’s exactly the kind of voice this nation does NOT need, ever again. We have all been in middle school once. Now that we have escaped to the adult world we want to make it the safe place our children can hope to escape to as well at the magical age of 18 or 21—a place free from harrumphing sandbox bullies who shove people into lockers and kick their books out of their hands at random because they are compensating for a lack of brain, spirit, and most of all: heart.
Now, why can’t I write like that?. I’m afraid that Mr. Keillor is far too articulate for the Shrub-loving lemmings. Poor them.
It’s amazing how my view of someone I consider to be the greatest writer and comic of the last decade i.e. Keillor - seems go down the toliet when they get involved in politics. There hasn’t been a good Lake Woebegon program in years, I guess he spends too much time on mindless dribble like the above now days.
“Greatest President since WWII…”??
How could anyone say that with any confidence that they were being even remotely sincere?
Sadly, however, had 9/11 not happened, George W. Bush would not have had the sense to be even a care taker president. Instead, he and his handlers, the most virulent strain of idealogue conservatives who wear god on their sleave and have a blind trust in their hearts, would have had little to distract us from their actions. Instead, maybe they would have been in the spotlight when they rolled back government regulations as Bush did in Texas by bringing around tort reform that makes companies virtually untouchable when it comes to lawsuits from employees or citizens injured or killed by their products.
The Laughable No Child Left Behind, underfunded by $27 billion, is the monstrous progeny of Texas based school reform that saw many, many schools throw students off their rolls, (through dropouts, etc.) so it would appear as though grade averages were on the way up. Texas, which ranks 50th overall in schooling, is now the model for the rest of the country.
These Republicans, this President, the one who didn’t want a Department of Homeland Security until outside pressure forced them to. Who didn’t want a 9/11 comission until public outcry demanded it. This party, who sent us into a war against a small nation led by a bully under the guise of weapons of mass terror and fear, all because of a uniform breach of 1 UN resolution, whereas, for example, Israel in breach of no less than 30 similar resolutions of similar and varied nature. We haven’t invaded Insrael yet.
“Yahoo!!” is not a foreign policy.
Every time Tom Ridge gets a wild hare and yellls “Charge!” the Fear-o-Meter goes up a color over some make-believe and out of date little snippet of intelligence that Japanese, armed with Katanas and gas bombs of wasabi green mustard, are invading Deluth. We are now a fearful nation that is feared around the world.
The tax cuts that would benefit all have now cost my wife and me nearly $30,000. She has retired and with it, no medical insurance. Our monthly co-pay for our various medications was $60, it’s now nearly $400. How are we better off than we were 3 years ago? I don’t mind paying taxes, especially when they go to help real people with real problems, but when my money evaporates so every millionare can get $90,000, I become upset.
A buried report recently stated that almost $9 billion has gone missing in Iraq. Haliburton under Cheney’s watch overstated its earnings by nearly 50% and now can’t or won’t account for over a billion dollars paid to them by the US Military for services never rendered. This war has cost $200 billion already, but the cost in lives of American servicemen and women, in Iraqi civilians, WHO HAVE DONE NOTHING TO US, is much, much greater.
Iraq. Iraq was never a threat to the United States. We ignored Ritter and Blix and just about everyone else who said so in favor of drawings, DRAWINGS, of supposed mobile chemical laboratories. Satellite photos, we were told, were chemical weapons plants and those fire trucks were decontamination trucks. Unmanned aerial planes were in reality spit and bailing wire models. And Iraq was linked to Al Queda, less closely, however, than you were linked to the kid behind the counter at the Starbucks you went to this morning.
God Bless America. Let’s hope so, because this wash-out from the Air National Guard and C student who can barely read, and his band born-again fascists are doing everything in their power to see that it’s otherwise. Who act as though we don’t live in a world with other countries and other people, because they don’t matter anyway. Who scream foul when their plans go awry, who lie about a real Viet Nam veteran while taking benefits away from current vets. And hacks like Limbaugh, Savage, and O’Reilly tout their praises and through mud in faces of those who tell Caesar that the Empire is failing.
Garrison Kiellor is mad. Democrats and all true patriots need to get MAD AS HELL. Bill Clinton performed his job with a “special prosecutor” on his back for 7 years, too bad no such oversight exists for Bush Jr.
Ashcroft Comments on Anti-Terror Policy - featuring Ashcroft’s refusal to confirm or deny the existence of memos from Bush directing the Justice Department to study the precedent and constitutional limitations, or lack thereof, regarding methods of torture as a legal and viable method of interrogation is the single most alarming development from the Bush administration, or any other, that I know of. It is abhorrent and beyond belief to me that the president of the free world could ever have even contemplated such a practice. And, apparently, implemented its use.
And they tried to impeach Clinton for getting oral sex.
We’re in real trouble as a country and more people better wake up and get MAD AS HELL. NOW.
Thanks. That was a great read.
Quit picking on President Bush! Why is everybody so mean? Mr. Oplas (above) is a visionary just like our president! We had to invade Iraq because we had to invade Iraq! Something had to be done and that was something so we had to do it! The economy is doing great because President Bush says it is doing great and he would never lie! We are on the march! We are safer under this president because he has made us safer, although we are and always will be in grave danger! He is a great president because every morning when she wakes him up Condoleeza Rice whispers in his ear that he is a great president and she always tells the truth! President Bush believes what he says and says what he says and does what he’s told! And besides John Kerry is French.
yesss, the evil republicans and their allies the Joooooos are taking over not just the US but the world, we must stop them, yessss.
Back to you, G. van den Bosch – First off, since you insist on calling me by my first name, how about providing yours?
Sorry you find it so difficult to have a dialog. If you feel I’m speaking past you, I’d ask that you take genuine responsibility for that. I’ve paid very careful attention to your statements and tried to address them very specifically with questions to establish clarity, and with statements of my own in response to yours. I don’t know you and you don’t know me, so all we have to go on is our statements here and now, to each other. I would however appreciate it very much if you would avoid twisting my statements. You have done this in a number of cases and then launched into a series of ‘answers’ which do a good job of making your point, but are based on a distorted recap of what I have said. Whether or not this is deliberate, I have no way of knowing.
Once again you condescend to me and complain when I respond in kind. I will quote:
“…we simply fill in the blanks based on what we see in the media or hear spoken by our mates.” Are you speaking of yourself because surely you have no basis upon which to say this in regard to me. As you say, you don’t know me.
In regard to the popular notion in some quarters that certain Christian sects are being persecuted in America – this is such absolute nonsense. To use your logic regarding the poor: compared to what and where? It is simply not true. The political party that represents the religious right currently controls all major levers of power in this country. I will freely admit that I am sick to death of hearing the two most pandered-to groups in this country, the rich and the religious, whining about how everybody is picking on them. Sun Myung Moon, who embodies both these groups, currently hosted an event in a government owned building in D.C. where, with the assistance of members of the US Congress crowned himself and his wife the direct representatives of God, King and Queen of Peace, and declared that he is essentially the second coming of Christ. I don’t know how you can know this and not vomit.
In re the term “Bible Thumper” – there are many people in this country who identify themselves this way with pride. Perhaps it is the same as blacks who call each other niggers. I have no idea and think it’s a side issue of little significance.
But let’s not get off our point-by-point:
1. I used the term ‘outed’ because in fact you did not immediately and clearly identify yourself as a Christian, but instead couched your remarks as one seeking moral clarity. Of course, that is code that most of us here understand, hence my effort to draw you out into an open and clear discussion of values, which is what this is about. Further, you did say that you were looking to your leaders for moral clarity. Only now do you say that you are looking for leaders who agree with your morals. Fair enough, but not what you originally said, distractions notwithstanding.
2. I am not stereotyping you. If anything, you are doing that to yourself by identifying with the Republican Party and their clearly stated and adopted platform, their actions and policies. There is obviously a place where your religious principles intersect with your political decisions, and that is what is under discussion from my side at any rate.
3. OK, you’re the expert on Head Start and you are convinced that the annihilation of the tattered shards of the public safety net is not the ultimate goal of the Republican Party. Again, read the non-religious neocons that are openly writing about this subject and their goals for this country in this regard. Set aside your personal, idiosyncratic experiences with your fellow employees, etc. and get at the policy goals of your adopted Party.
4. See #3.
5. Our local Salvation Army is begging for additional contributions to close a $70K gap in their fiscal year budget, which ends in 30 days, due to ballooning demand in the community. I live in a quite prosperous area. United Way – same problem. The food pantries are frantic for contributions to keep up with demand. The homeless shelters are turning people away, especially in the depths of winter. People are living in their cars. What do you want – affidavits from the selfless souls who run these charities, many of them church based?
6. OK, OK,OK. Everything is relative. Sheesh. Can we agree that we’ll use the federal government standard to define poverty in America, or shall we use whatever passes for that in Beijing or Bombay? This is what I mean about the ‘gotcha’ crap.
7. Don’t throw it back on me – I’m not an idiot and I know very well when someone is being condescending. I absolutely did intend to be condescending in response as I am willing to conduct this dialog on whatever terms you favor – up to a point.
8. So nice that you don’t identify as a Libertarian. How self-serving. It’s OK for you to be assisted by the government, but not others who unlike you don’t deserve assistance for some unknown reason.
9. Again, please don’t twist my words. I did not say that the situations in Sudan or Iraq were silly. I said that your insertion of those issues into the discussion was silly, by which I meant ‘irrelevant in the context,’ ‘diversionary,’ an unnecessary sidetrack. There is a difference. And by the way I wish you would not introduce the appalling suffering of others simply to divert the discussion and make a show of piety.
10. All I have asked since the beginning of this dialog is for you and other Republicans to examine the platform, policies, and actual track record of the party you support. If you agree with the real world behavior and consequences embodied therein, then indeed you should vote for those party members to represent you. Those of us who oppose the Bush regime have done so and we reject those policies. Unfortunately, we shall have to live with the consequences and soldier on.
If you’ve read all the posts on this board it is clear that there are some still fighting the Civil, World and Viet Nam Wars. I think we know plenty about each other, which is why people like Garrison Keillor, Bruce Sprinsteen, and millions of others who have stayed on the sidelines are entering the political arena and making their voices heard.
We cannot go back to Lake Wobegone, but the way forward offers plenty of opportunities to work for peace, healing and an end to the idea that we can solve our problems through violence and division. Peace and justice have never been found at the business end of a weapon, as history clearly shows.
Finally, I am not angry with you. I am taking the time to engage with you in this public forum because I think you represent the thoughts and feelings of many who support the current regime. You’ve been very open, and I appreciate that as I’m sure many do. Clearly you are doing the best you can with what you have to work with, as are we all.
Can an educated intelligent person be stupid or dumb at the same time? You bet they can. Don’t believe it just take a look around you the next time you are in your car driving somewhere and see all the intelligent educated people doing stupid dumb things like not wearing their seat belt or running through a red light. Happens everyday everywhere.
Can an educated intelligent person be a republican at the same time? Being a republican and supporting bush is just like doing any other stupid or dumb thing. These people know the facts and they still support that idiot.
I for one am tired of all the democrats always being so concerned with the feelings, the well being, and the needs of these republicans.
It’s time for us democrats to stop being so nice. Hell do you think they are nice? No they are not. They don’t give a rats ass about what we think.
Anyone who supports bush is an idiot and stupid. Plain and simple and it’s time to start calling them for what they are.
Any educated intelligent person who at the same time supports bush is a stupid idiot. Facts don’t lie. They cannot support their position with facts as evidenced by their retoric. They have only faith to their false gods. They have serious mental problems or they are just plain greedy or both. They lives are hollow and their souls are weak. They want a fight and it’s time to give them one. We cannot win with our right and just ideas we must get down and dirty first to earn the right to have our ideas take priority.
Americans have done this in the past and we will do this again. They will not win. This is our country. The time for keeping the soft gloves on has passed and it is now time to come out swinging. We can return to the intelligent approach after we have restored order.
Cae Sera Sera.
To the guy who said that this kind of language goes nowhere with his relatives I say what has the other approach brought forth?
Uh ha, exactly. Hey if you don’t want to hear the truth then get the hell out of the way. When you’re wrong I am sorry I will tell you in plain english and if that makes you cry then I am so sorry but that is life babes.
The nice soft approach only works when you have someone who is willing to compromise and listen. Our country has been built on compromise and these people are trying to take that away from us. Some things (as it turns out) cannot be compromised on (i.e. slavery, the constitution, one party rule, illegal war, freedom, equality). Get over it republicans, you are wrong and we are going to fix it(again).
I do not want a country that has it’s own citizens killing each other over ideology or religious beliefs. This would not be America. Just because they cannot see what it is that they are being led to does not mean that we must follow. The people who have all the money do not care about them. They are just puppets to the powers. When the powers decide that they are no longer of any need, they will be cast aside. They are blind to their own fate.
Educated, intelligent, stupid and dumb all at the same time.
Garrison is right, time to fight for our country.
Thanks, Garrison and In These Times. I read this Tuesday 8/31, the morning after the first night of the GOP convention, and it is EXACTLY what I needed as an antidote to the GOP’s shameful passive-agressive rhetoric.
It’s a damn shame my vote (as an Idahoan) won’t count Nov. 2, but I will do all I can to help motivate swing-state voters to get rid of Bush-Cheney. Swing-state voters, you are voting for those of us in the red states who have no voice, so please don’t let us down.
When I was kid I walked home from school everyday. It was a nice, safe neighborhood. One afternoon I met an elderly German woman who had come to America to live with her daughter. It was the beginning of many pleasant afternoons I spent chatting with her. Being a southern white boy, I knew a little bit about what it means to be part of the losing side in a war. So even though I, like most boys at that time, was fascinated by WWII (Daddy’s war, second only to great-granddaddy’s war)I treaded softly and didn’t ask her about it for the longest time.
One day I finally let slip a bad word about Hitler. This dear woman corrected me smartly. It wasn’t Hitler who was at fault she said. It was his advisors; Goerring, Goebbels and Himmler, they were responsible.
Like I said, I grew up knowing a little bit about what it means to be a part of a defeated people. I knew many folks who’d be quick to tell you that slavery hadn’t been as bad as it was made out. Such folks, including ones who loved and cherished me as a child and who I loved in return, prefered to meditate upon the bond between Mammy and Scarlett rather than the bondage of the field slaves.
As Human beings we like to think of the monsters of our history as exactly that. A separate species with which we have no connection other than the catastrophies that they visited upon humanity. This is a comforting lie.
The truth is that the Hitlers of this world are all too human. That is the secret of their power. They know human frailty and fallibility intimately. So we have the technique of the big lie, the cynical and manipulative drive to war and conquest, the dictatorial elevation of an elite, whether national and/or economic, over all other sections of humanity. The outcome is always blood and more blood.
None of this is possible without the tacit consent of a great mass of everyday folk. If Hitler hadn’t appealed to such people he’d be a footnote in German history. That much of this amounted to hoodwinking otherwise well meaning folk is clear, unless we want to pretend otherwise.
I can understand why people object to being compared to Nazis, what sane person wouldn’t? The ugly truth is that the nazis and their supporters were as human as the rest of us and any mistake that one group of humans makes, others can make as well. An error uncorrected becomes a crime. It is not hatred that compels such comparisons but a recognition of our common peril.
Thank you Garrison, for speaking up.
Mark Twain lives: For a free e copy of “The Ballad of Sonny Warbucks, an Unbush Ambush Anti poem for the Post Millennium” please write to Jim Mall at <mall.enteract@rcn.com> This will also get you on the mailing list of “The Dick Times: News that Bites”, an in-line, no- attachment news letter which satirizes the Bushmen.
Ooops, wanted to mention on my comment that if you DO live in a red state, you might enjoy my blog at www.redstaterebels.com. Thanks, and fight on.
Having first heard The Prarie Home Companion while driving north to admire the autumn trees in Good Ol’ Minnesota (with a gay Republican behind the wheel no less…) so many years ago, I am, and will be, forever grateful to you Garrison for your ‘touch.’
Keep speaking out - don’t be shy…
Ever think about what happened to other great civilizations to make them fail? I look at Iraq, which at one time in history, was the center of math and science. A real bastion of brilliance. As fanatics and fundamentalist with money took over, the “middle class” became uneducated and poor. Powerless, and dejected, the majority of the people are forced to live lives imposed on them by fundamentalist. Isn’t the Republican Party doing the same thing to us? Look at their behavior in New York this week. They have censored what shows “ADULTS” can attend. They spy on our library activities and they demand that all Americans HATE other Americans because of how they are born.
While some middle class Americans think this is great - what they see as really “pay back” to all those money-leeching scum buckets who take their tax dollars, Bush is not their friend and as soon as he uses them for his political (and Jerry Falwell’s and Pat Robinsons profits), he will discard them like used Kleenex!
Thanks, Garrison, for having some big ones. You will not find any in the Bush controlled media.
register a new account »Posting Security