Well said, TexMacaca.
All 850 comments by...
David in Canada
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hmmm, the “site-friendly” trolls have a new theme. Instead of rational debate, they disparage any commentary they don’t like with admonishments to seek professional help. Now that is funny! It seems you have a new theme too, Jay. Instead of appreciating someone's humorous comment, you disparage the commentary you don't like with accusations of the commentator being a troll. How droll! The definition of a troll, as I understand it, is someone who deliberately and single mindedly seeks to disrupt and sidetrack a discussion with comments that inevitably lead to a flame war. And by that definition it could …
Posted to Fear and Voting in the USA
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I must have missed the amusement in your comment Posted by Jay Cline on Nov 8, 2006 at 12:12 PM . But I did note your amusement in your comment Posted by Jay Cline on Nov 8, 2006 at 1:40 PM. A delayed reaction I guess? Or is there a more operative explanation? Thank you for your kind words, Jay.
Posted to Fear and Voting in the USA
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Mike, thank you for your kind words. I probably was allowing myself to be baited ... No problem, Mike, sometimes the bait looks good. I bite if I am hungry too. But if the bait tastes like shit ... just spit it out before you get hooked. Sometimes the other end of a baited line is not a fishing pole at all but instead is another hook.
Posted to Fear and Voting in the USA
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Scorp asks tell me one little socialist country that has ever worked to the good of the people? Canada! You forgot Canuckistan in your list, Mike ; ) But Scorp asked for a little socialist country wheras Canada is quite large so he will probably scoff at my answer.
Posted to Dueling Democrats
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Happy to help out! No apologies necessary but thank you anyways.
Posted to Dueling Democrats
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Reasonable is my middle name. Either that or Unreasonable . I forget which sometimes.
Posted to Dueling Democrats
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Easy Redhorse ... what did Winterchestnut (or Jesus) do to you? Please remember ITT's admonition to be respectful in your comments.
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Number three is the fact that to conjecture on the political musing of a mythical personality is in fact mute.... My point in doing so is to raise the question to the christians who profess belief in this “ Son of Man “… You admonish Winterchestnut for conjecturing and yet have done the same and even acknowledge it. Sounds like a double standard to me and is an example of hypocrisy you have accused others of.
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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No, I'm not a priest. But you were right about something: You don't know me. And how you can think you know that someone is a bigoted nazi neo-con sympathizer from a couple paragraphs is an example of the disrespect you show. It is a free world and you are free to say whatever you like but the hosts here at ITT have specifically requested that we be respectful in our comments. As for what you say: It's not that I have a problem with what you say but with the way you say it. And as you have …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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I don't wear panties. You just can't stop yourself can you? What business it is of yours is beyond me Are you serious? You have made it the business of everyone who is reading this article and the comments attached. As for the article : You would do well to heed the advice noted in the article ...
In Matthew 7, for instance, Jesus took pains to warn against deficiency of self-awareness, better known as hypocrisy. Cast out first the blocks that are stuck in your own eyes, he told his disciples, so that you can see clearly if …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Redhorse, before you come back and insult me some more with incredible humdingers like girlie-manish , I would like to share this little story with you. I hope that you are able to learn something from it.
Gift Of Insults There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him. One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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I did comment on the article and provided real life context when I noted that you should heed the advice therein. Namely, removing the blocks from your eyes before daring to go after the bits in the eyes of others and avoiding wild-eyed accusation . Like the article alludes, by your words and actions you are becoming what you profess to hate; a hypocrite. Can't you see that? As for the advice of the old master, I have taken his advice. I wish you could. Once again, by your own words, you have shown you cannot. Kuya, excellent points. And …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Redhorse, I am still responding to your posts because I want to. I do think that you may have something worthwhile to share. And, as I understand it, the old masters action or response (or lack of it) can be interpreted two ways. The first being no response at all to the insult. Or in other words silence . The second being not to respond to an insult with another insult. Or in other words turning the other cheek. I choose the second interpretation. We are here at these discussions to discuss. Not sit in silence. So I …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Kuya! I am well. High five electron style right back at you. How are you? I've been away from here for quite some time but have seen a couple familiar faces around. I'm just here to visit for a bit and then I'll be off on my wandering way again. violent remarks - No worries. My pacifist nature doesn't allow me to consider violence as a means of problem solving, as tempting as it may be sometimes, but I think you were mostly joking anyways, mostly. Kimberly - Jay did make a good point even if it is a rather obvious …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Hi Wolf, long time no see. How are you? When has a topic ever stopped us from going off on tangents. I know, I know ... try to remain on topic ... but sometimes it's hard. Thanks for mentioning my Amish brothers. You see, and maybe I mentioned it before back in the old days, I am a Mennonite. Mennonites are the slightly more worldly cousins of the Amish. Back a few hundred years ago a guy named Menno Simons founded the Mennonites as an offshoot of the anabaptist movement. Eventually a schism occurred and a hundred or so …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Redhorse, Yes, I do critical analysis. I saw Wolf's duplicity and as you mentioned it is a favorite tactic of his. I have called him on it before but it's painfully obvious he has not learned his lessons. Sometimes I wonder if it's wasted effort? I had hoped you would know your lesson better by now too. Was blushing like a school girl really necessary? Why do you find it necessary to insult people when you speak to them? Is it so hard to simply say what you have to say and leave the name calling out? I think …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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I'm back. Dinner is done like dinner, the dishes too, and I have a few minutes before I do some chores. So ... Wolf, I had hoped that you would have returned to clarify your statement by now. What you said takes an example of good Christians responding to an insult and compares it to an example of bad Muslims responding to an insult . Do you see? In response to the insult you alluded to there were plenty of Muslims who stayed home and prayed for peace while a few other Muslims were inciting violence …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Hi Journeywork, I do get the drift. Some people think it's ok to bash gays and whip up fears and prejudices unless it's a gay Republican politician. Excellent point. More hypocrisy. Further up the page here Kimberly said I would point out that the mainstream media did not bring up his [Studds] sexual relationship with an under age page. but you said The young man who worked for Studds was actually old enough to *give* legal consent. Which is it? Any references anybody?
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Chores all done for today There are always more tomorrow Gather ye rosebuds while ye may Nobody has been back here tonight except me. Time zones. It's a big small world after all, it seems. So I have only have this to add after reading some of the recent discussion over again. Redhorse, you said ; What....pacifist don't do critical analysis......?. Good one. Seriously. I should not have let it slide and hope it won't happen again. My friendly, good natured and only very slightly sarcastic reply (despite saying that, for now, it was all I would say on the …
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Redhorse, I think you are a decent fellow too. Carry on then and express away. Peace!
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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Hi Wolf, I have been away for some time too but wandered back for a visit. I explained the duplicity of your comment further back up the page here : Posted by David in Canada on Oct 17, 2006 at 8:00 PM Read and cogitate away.
Posted to The Role of the Religious Right in the Foley Affair
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I thought that a lexicon might need an atlas to go with it.
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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You need to work harder on keeping your personas separate. Jay, do you really believe that Rabbit and Redhorse are the same person? Do you see rabbits under your bed too? Starboy, er LB, er Joh.., er Jane Doe, And that Jane Doe is Luminous Beauty or someone else? If so I think that you need to take a break from all of this as it has possibly begun to have a detrimental effect on your mind. You may be experiencing paranoid delusions. Please seek help. I offer my humble assistance :)
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Jay, Thank you for your kind words. I have missed being here too, but only a little. Dichotomies aside I think you hit the nail on the head when you said of yourself the conspiratorial bug has afflicted me as well. Yes, I am aware of the circumstantial evidence but it is weak. Your time would be better spent with nobler aspirations than idle specualtion. ... was there a summer camp that I wasn’t invited to? Yes, but for conspiracy theorists only. However, now it appears we could have invited you as you have succumbed to the same affliction. One …
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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You have a delicately exquisite way of turning the fork! Considering the fragile state of your mind I thought it best to go easy on you, Jay. And ... No apologies necessary, but graciously accepted.
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Cabbie and Jay, Just a quick note to comment on the back and forth between you guys. I don't want to distract too much from the discussion as it it is very interesting and I am enjoying it. Aside from the occasional slip you manage to communicate like civilized people. I see friendly banter, mostly, and constructive criticism, mostly, even if you disagree and that's good. Thanks. Seriously. It gives me hope that maybe different people really can get along because in the end we are all the same. Sorry for possibly bringing more sociobiology into the mix but if you …
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Jane, you are your own woman. ....... And what a woman! You pounded that nail good, And spoke up like you should. Jay, old friend, you have slipped a gear, Gone around the bend, I sorely fear. She is she and you are he. ....... Really, seriously!
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Jay, I have never called you a troll and have, in the past, told people who have called you a troll that it is not so. Do I have to go back and search the archives to find the examples of where this topic of trolls was discussed? Back a day or so ago I was reading a post of Cabbie's and his opening was a tirade about what a troll you are. I came back a couple hours later prepared to call him on it and saw that he had edited the offensive remarks from his post. Good for him! …
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Luminous Beauty, good to see you here again, I enjoyed your verse too!
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Yeah Jay, Where is Starboy? I too did an ITT archive search when you first brought Starboy up and the results, except for your mention of Starboy on this thread, were non-existent. I also entered starboy into a seach engine and got some results but except for your paranoid rantings about starboy on this thread found nothing else except the usual debris. So ... where is Starboy? Theres' a starman waiting in the sky He'd like to come and meet us But he thinks he'd blow our minds There's a starman waiting in the …
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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feigned and disingenuous queries Oh Jay, Now you have hurt my feelings :( Now that was feigned and disingenuous whereas my previous was a sincere and genuine question. Although I was having some fun with you when I returned from my wanderings I am not trying to give you a hard time here and now. Seriously Jay ... where is this Starboy you speak of? Please show me a post of his here at In These Times.
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Thanks Redhorse, I do appreciate the effort. Chocolate Starboy ... brilliant!
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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have you forgotten? Not at all ... hehehe - sorry but I couldn't resist. Then I fear it's true, Jay, and life has imitated art. You are having paranoid delusions. There is no Starboy at In These Times except in your imagination. I am glad that is settled. Admitting you are sick is the first step to recovery.
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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if I be paranoid, it is only because it is true, eh? It is not true, Jay. You are simply delusional. There is no Starboy here. Redhorse is not Rabbit. Jane Doe is not Luminous Beauty. You appear to be suffering from a monothematic delusion called Fregoli delusion. Please, seek help!
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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I am refering to the Starboy who is a figment of your delusional imagination. (Not at all, Jay, it is your disingenuity that is showing, or perhaps your paranoia.)
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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No Jay, Your next line was supposed to be Touche !
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Metaxy99, They chose Islamofascism to vilify Muslims and thereby motivate Americans, and the rest of the coalition of the killing, to want to kill and/or control Muslims and thereby control the oil that these Muslims are (un)fortunate enough to have. This is just one of many reasons, as you have noted others, but I think it is a primary reason. Of course another is to protect that bastion of freedom and best ally in the region, Israel. President Bush says as much himself in his recent interview with Rush Limbaugh. Here it is in the President's own words : …
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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Here is another example of the same bullshit that GWB spreads but of course careful consideration should be given to the perspective and proverbial spin.
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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I am the one with paranoid delusions here. Jay, good to see you manage to hang on to a sense of humour, take a little jab at Cabbie, practice self-deprecation and do it all at the same time.
Posted to The Neocons Lexicon
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I would be interested in a rebuttal from Mr. Giles as well. Rabbit is quite capable of providing the same.
Posted to The 9/11 Faith Movement
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But, despite the above, let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it's possible for a building to fall far from its footprint, thereby threatening the integrity of the buildings adjacent to it, and the additional lives of the people who occupy them. In such a situation, it would not be unreasonable to provide the means to pull it down. Posted by Major Major on Jul 11, 2006 at 8:34 PM He may have a point here, Rabbit. Maybe Major Major is dropping a hint? I have imagined that a "fallback" position, and admission, would be that the buildings were …
Posted to The 9/11 Faith Movement
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No, my job is not to defend “Bushworld”. But I do consider it a worthy cause, to counter this incidious form of destructive, hate-based propaganda, which serves nobody really ... So this is your job then, defending the faith, but it is a worthy one?
Posted to The 9/11 Faith Movement
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Follow the Yellow Brick Road. Follow the Yellow Brick Road. Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the rainbow over the stream, follow the fella who follows a dream, follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the yellow brick road. You're off to see the Wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. You'll find he is a whiz of a Wiz! If ever a Wiz! there was. If ever oh ever a Wiz! there was The Wizard of Oz is one because, Because, because, because, because, because. Because of the wonderful things he does. You're off to see the Wizard. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Not …
Posted to The 9/11 Faith Movement
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Mythological universe ??? I knew I didn't have a good grip on reality ... but ...
Posted to Pow! Shazaam! Its ғMinoriteam!
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Study finds no marijuana-lung cancer link. Click on the hyperlink. It reaffirms what John said, marijuana does not cause lung cancer.
Posted to Science: The Drug Wars Latest Victim
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Major Major, Re : covering a phallic symbol like the Washington monument with an over-sized condom... I would be happy to contribute my hard earned money to your art project. It is brilliant.
Posted to Disclaimer
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Easy there, Redhorse. Sometimes computers and the electrons that shoot back and forth between them get confused. Lost comments are nothing new, especially around here, but they are working on it I am sure. Please try again = ) And maybe try copying and temporarily saving your comment just prior to submitting it. Just in case.
Posted to Saving Secular Society
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Even if the US pulls out now, Iraq can still get pregnant. Not mine, something I read somewhere.
Posted to Do you think the U.S. should withdraw from Iraq?
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Yes, but this is our baby now and we mustn't just walk away. Sorry Whattheheck, that reasoning doesn't do it for me. Maybe it is better to let the baby walk on it's own. Sooner or later it has to unless the USA plans to hold Iraq's hand forever which is a possibility. Or maybe the baby should be taken away from unfit parents. From what I have seen, the USA is doing a worse job than Saddam ever did.
Posted to Do you think the U.S. should withdraw from Iraq?
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Wolf, I am glad you liked it. It is easy to like because it is so apt. Which analogy do you prefer for reality? I like the former rather than the latter. Let them walk. They are reasonable people, let them do what they will, it seems only fair, it is what we all want and expect.
Posted to Do you think the U.S. should withdraw from Iraq?
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Same sort of question to you Whattheheck. If Sistani and his ilk want to kill homosexuals, maybe you should let them. Why not? Abortion kills unborn babies, Sistani lets you. Why not? What's the difference in, that coin of the realm, moral value?
Posted to Do you think the U.S. should withdraw from Iraq?
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I am laughing right now. They are as reasonable as anyone, even Wolf and Whattheck.
Posted to Do you think the U.S. should withdraw from Iraq?
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Lee, I will join in to say "well said"". I agree. More American troops would be like putting out fire with gasoline.
Posted to Do you think the U.S. should withdraw from Iraq?
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There is no such thing as safe nuclear energy. What is safe about nuclear waste? I realize that currently the policy for the United States is to use the toxic nuclear waste to fashion penetrators for bombs, missiles and bullets and then lob them at countries like Afghanistan and Iraq thereby turning whole countries into nuclear waste dumps. How's that for a great idea? These nuclear weapons have been given the deceptive name of depleted uranium munitions to make them seem safe. They are not. Solar and wind energy are our best hopes, if the nuclear …
Posted to Do you think the benefits of nuclear energy can outweigh it's risk?
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barbarians in the Middle East What about the barbarians in the West? Are western barbarians the only ones allowed to have weapons technology? Barbarians are everywhere, Wolf.
Posted to Do you think the benefits of nuclear energy can outweigh it's risk?
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Either way, perhaps we can agree that giving modern technology to the Middle Eastern states is very probably a bad idea? No, we do not agree. Do we really want them to have the military capabilities that the US (or France or England or etc) have? Yes. I think it is only fair. Can they - and their methods of governing - really be trusted with such technology? Yes. As trusted as anyone else. In fact, is it even moral of us (the West) to introduce our technology into these places? It is not our …
Posted to Do you think the benefits of nuclear energy can outweigh it's risk?
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... and with respect, as much as I can muster, Wolf ; Your metaphor sucks and blows.
Posted to Do you think the benefits of nuclear energy can outweigh it's risk?
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I see it through the eyes of one human being looking at another human being. As equals. It would seem you see it as one superior human being looking at an inferior human being. As unequal. What other collectivist, culturally superior and racist views do you have, Wolf? I am seriously interested in knowing and hopefully understanding. I already know that you think people of Middle Eastern descent are barbarians. Worthy of slaughter then I guess? What other groups of people do you feel have their intellectual ideas and moral character formed by the race/country/culture they were born into?
Posted to Do you think the benefits of nuclear energy can outweigh it's risk?
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Hi Wolf, Thanks for the clarifications. And I feel that you are quite right in your judgement of some aspects of other cultures as you mentioned. The key word being some . There are plenty of aspects of Western culture that I view as worthy of condemnation. But I dont' believe that the people that practice them are inferior, merely different. Statements like you made when you said rather than give $$$ and therefore modern weapons/technology to the barbarians in the Middle East are blanket and collectivist statements, even racist and supremacist, that do not help …
Posted to Do you think the benefits of nuclear energy can outweigh it's risk?
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Looks like the Iranian president likes my analogy. When did Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad say that? You flatter yourself, Wolf. If Mr. Ahmadinejad read your analogy he would probably be as sickened as I was. I have some chocolate for the USA if they will give up their dangerous guns. Come on, it's yummy. Don't you want to be mature and eat your chocolate too.
Posted to Do you think the benefits of nuclear energy can outweigh it's risk?
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Crispino, I feel the same and didn't vote as none of the responses satisfied my opinion. I would have liked to destroy the ballot in protest. I have seen a similar poll recently here in the Canadian media about the new Conservative government banning the media from covering the arrival of dead Canadian soldiers from the misadventure in Afghanistan. The responses they provided for the poll, both in the matter I mention and this poll on ITT, almost seemed to be calculated to sidestep the real issue. Insulting, to say the least. As Opeluboy says Who’s writing this shit …
Posted to Do you think the U.S. will go to war with Iran?
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Whattheheck (and anyone else who imagines that a preemptive or preventive attack on Iran could be a good thing), With respect, Whattheheck, you say, Whether it is “fair” for Iran and others to desire these weapons is irrelevant. If I thought someone was planning to attack my home — I would not offer him a gun equal to mine. Would you? Are you afraid of Iran? Are you sleepless with nightmares of Iranian bombs falling on your head? How do you think the average guy in Iran feels. Do you think he is afraid of the USA and has …
Posted to Do you think the U.S. will go to war with Iran?
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with more respect ... And that's entertaining the notion that they are trying to develop nuclear weapons. It has certainly not been proven that they are. They have the right to develop uranium enrichment under the NPT. That is a fact. Where's the trust? Where is the consistency when dealing with and assisting other nations considered allies when it comes to their nuclear programs? Good for some but not for others? How about Mutually Assured Destruction? That sort of trust maybe if the other is impossible? I am just trying to understand.
Posted to Do you think the U.S. will go to war with Iran?
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... and a nod to Seamus. Thanks for admitting the responses were, if not a little lame, at least lacking. Do we get a new poll to better assess opinion amongst your faithful readers?
Posted to Do you think the U.S. will go to war with Iran?
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Oink ... Moo ... Hotdogs and Hamburgers. Meat and meat byproducts like lips and assholes. Yummy? They use everything, but the squeal and the moo, for real, they even use the poo. I haven't been able to bring myself to eat a hotdog for many years. When I was a kid we lived on a small farm and I thought nothing of it , or almost nothing, when my dad chopped the head off a chicken every now and then. I collected eggs every day from our little flock of chickens. Ahh ... the idyllic innocence of youth, but it never …
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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... and doesn't the piggy in the picture at the top of the article look sad?
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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Hi NY Vegan, I have posted on this thread too. Right at the top. Organic free range eggs. The organic egg and poultry farmwhere I buy fresh eggs allows the chickens free run of a large field and they go in and out of the barn as they please. Their beaks were not trimmed and they can strectch their wings all they want. 1. I do not believe that eating an animal is morally wrong. Animals eat other animals. It is a simple fact of life. It may be that some people and industries exploit animals and treat them cruely, which …
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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Oh ... and you mentioned unfertilized eggs. What are your thought on fertilized eggs? Back in high school I had a friend and I was visiting at her farm and we were looking in the fridge for something to eat. I saw the eggs and suggested we eat eggs but she assured me I probably wouldn't want to eat those eggs as they were fertilized, her parents ate them. Some of them you could actually see the chick inside. Freaky. We ate something else.
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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Hi NY Vegan, Thanks for your reply. We are more than animals, such is my understanding at least, otherwise your argument is over before you began. If I am eaten by a wolf, or a cannibal, the next time I go camping I wouldn't be angry with the wolf or cannibal. They are just doing what wolves and cannibals do. I would like to share a beautiful little story with you.
There was this man. He had a dog. He loved the dog more than his wife. His wife would say "You love that dog more than me." …
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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Hi NY Vegan - David here again. Back to your points. 1. See above. But I will add that even plants have some subjective awareness of their own life. And, if I may be so bold as to ask, are you pro-life or pro-choice when it comes to abortion. 2. My farmer is in a relatively small farming community in Canada, same as I am. I believe my farmer's claim that he treats his animals humanely is not false. And I take a little bit of umbrage at your assertion that such a claim is always false , I don't …
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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Are efforts to eat less animals and making wise choices when people do eat animals worthy of any merit to you. Does it have to be all or nothing?
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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An excellent defence it is. Thanks and well said Rabbit. I find you ....... Not Guilty. Go forth and be happy eating animals in a conscientious and thankful manner. You too NY Vegan. You are free to go forth and be happy not eating animals in a conscientious and thankful manner. I admire and respect your position on the matter.
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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Hi NY Vegan, Just a quick note to thank you for your reply. The next time I need eggs or a chicken I will try to tell my farmer that you are happy about his efforts and I hope to ask the farmer those questions the next time I need eggs or a chicken and let you know. And when I do let you know about the answers, I may explain why I think that if we are not more than animals then it invalidates your arguement that it is immoral for a (human) animal to eat an animal. I haven't …
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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And I like your Snickers bar analogy. But an egg is better for you than a candy bar.
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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And I would like to share this perspective : It's Not Enough to Be a Vegetarian .
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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And, another perspective, Freegans.
Posted to Meat-Industrial Complex
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Kitchens and bathrooms, sinks and toilets. Hospitals! I am in my kitchen and bathroom daily and haven't died yet. I was in a hospital a few times recently, for the first time in my life (since I was born) as a patient, for a few procedures to deal with a kidney stone (probably calcium oxalate) too large (1.0 x 1.3 cm) to pass in the normal fashion. It would appear my body gets medieval with calcium but still doing some more 24 hour urine collections for analysis and yet to recieve the analysis of the bits of sand I …
Posted to Are Hospitals Hazardous to Your Health?
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Jay, I am sorry, but I just can’t resist. I knew I would find you worshipping at the altar of American military might and capitalism. No, I lied. I really am not sorry ; )
Posted to China Dissidents Disappeared
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Do you have to be strong to be free? Or free to be strong?
Posted to China Dissidents Disappeared
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Jay, try harder. I see that Whattheheck found a point in my cadence worth thinking about.
Posted to China Dissidents Disappeared
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That's okay Jay. Easily forgiven. I might ask your forgiveness for the worshipping at the altar of American military might crack. But I won't. Because maybe I already have it. I believe it's a given that to forgive is to be forgiven.
Posted to China Dissidents Disappeared
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the age of the bachelor arrived bachelor , noun 1. An unmarried man. 2. A person who has completed the undergraduate curriculum of a college or university and holds a bachelor's degree. 3. A male animal that does not mate during the breeding season, especially a young male fur seal kept from the breeding territory by older males. 4. A young knight in the service of another knight in feudal times. .. and I am living it . Well, three of them at least. What do they call a female bachelor? But if I were to marry and have children I …
Posted to Friedan and King: Super Models
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So, you’re saying that you’re not a young fur seal kept from the breeding territory by older males? Actually, I dropped out of college so I don't have a degree. I'm sure I have some characteristics in common with young fur seals.
Posted to Friedan and King: Super Models
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Fortunately, I am not a bull seal, yet, so I don't have to establish a territory or deal with a harem. Male and female seals come together only during breeding season. Sounds like a good idea to me ; )
Posted to Friedan and King: Super Models
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I hate plastic and avoid buying things wrapped in plastic or things made of plastic.
Posted to Talking Trash
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I went to cut and paste the URL that Fridabee shared and found that I can't cut from these ITT pages. Has anyone else experienced this?
Posted to Walking to Guantnamo
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Nope, but a little HTML magic will make it a hyperlink. like this : http://witnesstorture.org/node/254 Still can't cut text from others' comments. Have to type URLs into the browser address bar. How barbaric.
Posted to Walking to Guantnamo
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Keep up the good work Frida. You and the prisoners at Guatanamo are in my prayers.
Posted to Walking to Guantnamo
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Heads up. Everyone should have a firewall on their computer. I do and have been backtracing the port scan atttempts lately. Yesterday I back traced an attempted port scan to the DoD Network Information Center. I have no idea what the Department of Defence is doing port scanning my computer but it got me interested and after a few searches I found that I am not alone. I found forums full of people who have had the same experience. Opinions ranged from 'hackers have hacked a DoD computer and are using it for hacker purposes' to 'nothing to …
Posted to FBI, DoD, NSA: All Spying on You
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And here’s a question guys--- is it o.k. for the government to torture you, since you have nothing to confess? There are some serious boundary issues here, and though I trust you are sincere and well meaning, you are certainly not doing anyone else any favors by claiming that it’s o.k. for the government to spy on people because you’ve got nothing to hide. Wiley, No, torture is not o.k. whether I have something to confess or not. I never claimed it was o.k. for the government to spy on people and invade their privacy without probable cause.
Posted to FBI, DoD, NSA: All Spying on You
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Wiley, I understand what you are saying, then and now. Tacit endorsement? Hmm ... I thought it was tacit opposition. I will try to be less ambiguous. Hug happily accepted and reciprocated.
Posted to FBI, DoD, NSA: All Spying on You
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Interesting essay you excerpted, Wiley. This - hopeisfortheweak - from the URL puzzles me. Satire? or Sublime? or both? I will be thinking about this hope is for the weak idea. I like it as sublime satire. I liked the poem at the end the best and will post it on my fridge.
Posted to FBI, DoD, NSA: All Spying on You
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Yeah, great posts Cabby, but I get lost too. You might consider point form and/or paragraphs to give us a chance to take a breath while reading your comments.
Posted to Hamas: Sharon's Legacy?
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Major Major, your posts are great too. More concise though.
Posted to Hamas: Sharon's Legacy?
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Shocking.
Posted to Hamas: Sharon's Legacy?
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Ahh ... hope for the hopeless. What a nice sentiment. I approve. Faith, hope and charity ... or is it love ... and which is the greatest?
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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Hmm ... Chip and Dale ... yes. But, even more so by Mac and Tosh, the Goofy Gophers.
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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... and a little research indicates that Chip and Dale weren't really that polite. I seem to remember Chip smacking Dale around sometimes. A recurring schtick often mistakenly attributed to Chip 'n Dale is the characters' alleged use of politeness: "after you..." "no, I insist, after you!"
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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I like you too Wiley. Thanks. Chip and Dale are fine but I like Mac and Tosh better as far as cartoon critters go. Old school Warner Bros. and Disney are perennial favorites for me. Thanks for the Back to Canada song, Pete. It was truly awful and I am still laughing now.
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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Hi Scorp, Don't get too excited. Canada elected a conservative government but remains a liberal (and socialist) country. The Conservatives have what is called a minority government, they were elected to 124 seats in a parliament that consists of 308 seats. A majority government would have required 155 seats. So the new Conservative government here is on a pretty short leash. If the opposition parties wanted to they could form a coalition and bring the government down very quickly and we would have another election (something everyone wants to avoid at this time). Expect cooperation and compromise to be the words …
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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... and in Germany, Merkel had to form a coalition government. Not exactly a sharp right turn.
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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Mad Jacques Chirac is threatening Iran with nuclear weapons. Scorp, you are bending and stretching the truth again. "The leaders of states who would use terrorist means against us, as well as those who would consider using, in one way or another, weapons of mass destruction, must understand that they would lay themselves open to a firm and adapted response on our part," Mr Chirac said on Thursday in a speech at a nuclear submarine base in Brittany. He named no countries. "This response could be a conventional one," he said. "It could also be of a different kind." Chirac …
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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Here's something interesting. The firewall on this computer just told me there was a port scan attempt within a couple of minutes of that last post. I did a backtrace and it turns out the DoD Network Information Center was trying to do the port scan.
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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A little research and it seems that lots of people have the same thing happening. Here is what one guy said on a forum discussing it ... But they're not at all likely to use their own IP's to target a surveillance... that would be sort of like staking out a drug suspect by parking a marked Sheriff's van in their driveway and having a deputy sit on the roof with a Nikon .... and another comment .... Either that or it's a hacker using a spoofed IP. I'm not worried. Nothing to hide. But it is interesting. Maybe I will …
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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Right now I am using the Sygate Personal Firewall software but may have to look for another as it has been discontinued and isn't being updated/supported anymore. Any suggestions for another 'free for personal use' firewall? I have a friend who is a software developer and will ask him and his co-workers what is good to use these days.
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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Wiley, I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. As Liberal said on the thread : I am not fearful of government intimidation, I wear it as a badge of honor that I am so alarming to the powers-that-be that they feel the need to monitor my behavior. I feel the same way.
Posted to No Discounted Transit for Oil
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why can’t we just ban it? It’s really backward. Please? Can’t we be intolerant on this one? Just this one thing? No public worship of imaginary beings? No mention of Jesus unless it’s in vain? Rocco, you don't want to ban someone like tina1 for political beliefs, neither do I, but you want to ban speaking publicly about spiritual beliefs? Sorry to drag out your last point but I hope you were being facetious?
Posted to Reflections on Tookie's Execution
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Thanks Rocco, I like your long answer and like your short answer better. Ban religion. Keep spirituality. But for some religion is the path to spirituality.
Posted to Reflections on Tookie's Execution
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Rocco - Excellent retort. Nice to see you and Rabbit enjoying one anothers company.
Posted to Reflections on Tookie's Execution
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not much enjoying ... but at least a little? I wouldn't characterize the banter as wasteful . There is always something to be learned even if the revelation is delayed.
Posted to Reflections on Tookie's Execution
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Gruyere cheese is great. Melted on bread with French Onion Soup. Mmmm good. Vive la France, indeed. But the cheese itself is Swiss in origin although there is some dispute about it with the French. Gruyere Cheese is named for the town of the same name in Switzerland.
Posted to Postcards From the Front
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whew... I have not laughed so hard in quite some time. Entertainment is a good part of why we are here, maybe the best part. From the reaction that trolls like tina1 normally get, I think they’re fulfilling a symbiotic need for most people here. Well said Rocco. Where would we be without someone like Tina1 to drive us crazy with "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder" rants. But I still don't get what you have against Rabbit beyond his third person self-references. Anyways ... Rocco, I enjoyed your joke, even if it was cheesy. Wiley, sorry I cheesed you off ;) …
Posted to Postcards From the Front
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Good points Stinky Pete. Like it says .. Please be respectful in your comments .. and I have said the same, many ways and many times. Personally, I like trolls . Sick, huh? But like Rocco says we need the villains and I find them fascinating too. It is exciting when they come out from under the bridge.
Posted to Postcards From the Front
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Hi Tina1, Why not take your political ideas to a more suitable thread like The Republican Crack-Up. You had the third post from the top and since then it has been almost all about you. This thread has gotten far enough off topic debating your presence. Please take it to the appropriate thread. Thanks.
Posted to Postcards From the Front
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"When I was in the army, it was clear that if you're in the IRR, the only time you're going to go off to war is World War III,"
Maybe World War III has arrived in the here and now and we are just seeing the opening acts. There is debate on when WW II actually started. When did the second world war start being called World War II ?Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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Oingo Boingo - Little Guns Tiny people, with little guns Little armies march, to little drums What do they want? What do they want? Tiny soldiers, with little guns Little tanks, no bigger than your thumb They want you Little people, with tiny brains Little bullets flowing, in their veins What do they want? What do they want? Tiny people with little guns Little armies march, to little drums They want you, you You, you, you, you Little airplanes, with tiny bombs Little squadrons, dropping thimbles of Napalm They want you What do they want? What do they want? Tiny people, …
Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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Jay asks, So what do big people with no guns do when those little people come marching down your street? Stand there and get shot?
Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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Without Blinking During the civil wars in feudal Japan, an invading army would quickly sweep into a town and take control. In one particular village, everyone fled just before the army arrived - everyone except the Zen master. Curious about this old fellow, the general went to the temple to see for himself what kind of man this master was. When he wasn't treated with the deference and submissiveness to which he was accustomed, the general burst into anger. "You fool," he shouted as he reached for his sword, "don't you realize you are standing before a man who could run …
Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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Jay says, Your poem of “pacifism lost” loses sight of what happens to “big” people with big brains when they don’t defend themselves. Not at all, Jay. The poem (lyrics) may not describe in detail the death and destruction that little people with little guns visit upon those without guns. But it does allude to it ... ... and I see what happens very clearly.
Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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Jay, You still don't seem to get it. My pacifist house of cards does not require the participation of everyone. All it requires is my own.
Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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Jay says David, You still don’t get it. No, you don't get it, but I will try to explain it to you one more time. Read this very carefully. Several times if necessary. Pacifism is the rejection of violence as a means of resolving disputes. Pacifism is being willing to die rather than being willing to kill. Your pacifism can only survive if there are no “Little men with little guns”. No, my pacifism survives, regardless of others and their actions, even if I do not survive. Now I know you are the ultimate optimist ... No, I am the …
Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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Yeah, eh.
Posted to Backdoor Draft, Back Again
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I have to speak up here in defence of religious fantasy , as Hifi calls it. When I was in high school I, and some of my friends, went to a private Mennonite School. I also had friends who were in public schools. Most of the kids at the Mennonite School came from Mennonite families but there were some secular kids there too. Strength of character was a valuable lesson in which we were given instruction, at school and at church too. The public schools set up nursery programs for teenage mothers. We did not …
Posted to Cult of Character
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Hi Hifi, Thanks for your response. conformity, submissiveness to authority Another Mennonite school days story if I may. We had mandatory Bible Study classes as part of our curriculum. In the Bible class one day I started arguing with the teacher about an interpretation he was making. He seemed to brush off my challenge to his authority and moved on to another matter. That was fine, I had made my point. When the class was being dismissed he said " David, I would like to speak to you." and I expected to be reprimanded for what I had done. I was …
Posted to Cult of Character
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So I guess my points are : Not all people of faith are hypocritical people of faith. Not all people of faith are DO AS I SAY people of faith.
Posted to Cult of Character
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You probably won’t find such people at “character building” seminars. Very true Wiley. I was just talking to my Grandmother on the phone and when she asked what I was doing I told her. She was amazed that there even was such a thing as a "character building" seminar.
Posted to Cult of Character
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Wiley, I have never been to a "character building" seminar. Maybe I wasn't too clear. When I told my grandmother what I was doing, what I was doing was making a post on a forum about "character building" seminars. Sorry for the confusion. I don't need a seminar, I am a character :)
Posted to Cult of Character
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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Posted to Irans Anti-Gay Pogrom
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Posted to Irans Anti-Gay Pogrom
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Hmmm ... No [Thunderous Applause] anywhere ?? But I guess the [Applause] indicated is a prompt to cue the desired and expected response?? How about [Dead Silence] or [Boos and Hisses] I would not be to sure about the troops coming home after March : The Bush administration is preparing its NATO allies for a possible military strike against suspected nuclear sites in Iran in the New Year ...
Posted to My fellow Americans
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Opeluboy, the words poetic justice for Sharon is the link, a hyperlink, just click on it. Good job,Wiley, you got one to work. I am on the west coast of North America. So is Wiley. So you are only two hours behind us.
Posted to My fellow Americans
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A couple more tips ... for those who don't already know HTML ... and one for those who use tinyURL in hyperlinks. Using HTML to make a hyperlink to a reference is easy. Here is an example of a hyperlink HTML command : words to become link goes here The line above is an inactive example. Replace URL goes here between the " " with the URL/address. Replace words to become link goes here between the > with whatever word or phrase that you want …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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By the way ... I have asked Natalie to bring the discussion taking place on the Democrats: It's the War thread to this 9/11 discussion. I hope she joins the discussion here.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Another point of note is that this story is way out of date and Jones, whose expertise is not so easy to discount, is only mentioned in passing. It indicates to me that this is a story the ITT staff felt the need to at least mention for the sake of it’s readership, but nobody in house is really willing to stick their neck out on. The fact that political journalists of whatever stripe are notoriously lacking in math and tech knowledge could have some bearing on the matter. An excellent point. The whole idea of being an alleged conspiracy …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Wiley, you forgot the = sign .... I fixed it for you : 9/11 wargames - no coincidence Andi, you learned fast. Great posts by the way.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Hi Ad, It usually gets quiet on weekends. Christmas Eve and all, I would expect it will be very quiet here for a couple days. No stress here :) I just got back from visiting my parents for breakfast and taking the dog for a walk. Settling in for a quiet afternoon now, expecting a couple friends to visit. Merry Christmas everyone.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Interesting that you mention red herring, Wiley. I have not read it in depth yet but I found this just today : Evidence That a Frozen Fish Didn't Impact the Pentagon on 9/11 I have always wondered if eventually evidence, i.e. all of the tapes they won't release, will eventually be released and the evidence will clearly show a Boeing 757 crashing into the Pentagon and then ... and then ... we can all rest easy, all snuggled up tight in our beds at night, knowing we were only crazy. But we got better ... Cured …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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But I doubt it.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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.. oops .. now I see that Ad had posted the same Fish link a little further back up the page. Sorry Ad. Didn't mean to steal any thunder or lightning ;) I am in the (bad?) habit of reading from the bottom of the thread, the latest posts, then reading the earlier posts. Playing catch up after being out of the loop over the holidays. Wiley, I am trying to be less crass too but not always succeeding. Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. Confucius
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Natalie, when you make up your mind have you ever changed your mind ?? Since we all enjoy tests so much I would like to share this as an aside : The Gullibility Factor Test
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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I have made up my mind .... 9/11 stinks. Smelliest event ever.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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... and doesn't Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing have an odour too ?
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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That's right ... the Ministry of Lies ... needs more money ... and blind faith.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Minerva, I liked the Mahatma Gandhi pun best. Did you know Mahatma means Great Soul ? But I am not sure if I understand the previous post where you ask about a good cop/bad cop routine. What exactly are you talking about Minerva?
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Hello everybody, I have found that the easiest way to avoid messing up the HTML link codes is to have a document where the codes like are blank and then you can simply cut and paste them into your post and add the URL and link. Don't feel bad about the electrons not wanting to dance for you all the time Rabbit. Even I had a link that crashed and burned a few days ago.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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What's up with the bold type? Did you guys break something? Is the electron revolution upon us?
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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bold is getting boring Hmmm ... maybe we should send word to Seamus?
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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I doubt that Osama is still alive. Probably died in December 2001. Osama bin Laden : A dead nemisis perpetuated by the US government The Fake 2004 Bin Laden Tape
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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"We haven't heard from him in a long time," Bush told reporters at the White House. "I truly am not that concerned about him." George Bush on March 14, 2002
Osama bin Laden is, quite literally, a weapon of mass convenience.Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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BOO Osama's ghost is gonna getcha.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Thanks for the link Natalie. Isn't it possible that the person who created that site you linked to is a politically motivated rumor monger and just faking you out and making a tidy profit by doing it ?? Where is the sophisticated voice and face analyzing technology ? Is it possible that Osama is dead? Or do you refuse to consider the possibility because you are in deep denial?
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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... and Natalie ... I said that I doubt that Osama is still alive. That is different than saying I know or believe that he is alive.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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... and different than saying I know or believe that he is dead. Do you understand?
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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....a cry of despair broke from every animal’s throat. A terrible sight had met their eyes. The windmill was in ruins. With one accord they dashed down to the spot. Napoleon, who seldom moved out of a walk, raced ahead of them all. Yes, there it lay, the fruit of all their struggles, levelled to its foundations, the stones they had broken and carried so laboriously scattered all around. Unable at first to speak, they stood gazing mournfully at the litter of fallen stone Napoleon paced to and fro in silence, occasionally snuffing at the ground. His tail had grown rigid …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Natalie, It's funny that you criticize the guy for carrying ads on his website. So are newspapers and television news programs suspect in the articles and information they publish because they too have ads for revenue purposes? By the way, I have never intentionally clicked on an ad on the internet and have a blocker to stop ads from popping up so, as usual, advertisers are simply wasting their time and money when it comes to influencing me. Maybe the lack of ads on the 9/11 myths site is cause for suspicion. Smacks of sponsorship and propaganda? or are they sincerely …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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It would be nice if everything was black and white. If good guys wore white hats and bad guys wore black hats. We live in a world of grey shadows.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Hello everyone, Frog, thanks for the link to the ICH article. I had already read it at Global Research but it was very interesting to read the comments in the discussion forum at the depleted uranium article at ICH because of who was there doing the discussing. I found an old friend, and I use that term very loosely. Our dear friend Ramjet, also known as Roger Helbig, also known as Lt. Col. Roger Helbig USAF (ret) was there up to his old tricks telling everyone how great depleted uranium is. The last time I encountered Roger was on the depleted …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Hi Luminous Beauty, Thanks for the great links. Natalie, Does the evidence that Luminous Beauty provided by those links qualify as commonly accepted scientific studies and does that evidence begin to back up wild claims ??? You say that the danger from DU is not zero, but is hardly anywhere near the scale some would like you to believe. Dangerous, but not too dangerous? Radioactive and toxic nuclear waste seems to be dangerous enough that the EPA considers it a hazard and has regulations galore for disposing (storing) of it. Nobody seems to want a nuclear waste …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Right on, Luminous Beauty. ... in her role as a true believer ... Ding ding ding! And what a role! I can almost believe that she believes . ... come to her senses and seek healing ... We should be encouraging her ... Natalie, we love you and want to help you get well.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Hi everyone, Rabbit, the ADMIT acronym is clever but I have to respond when back a page ago you wrote to Natalie : "Reading between the lines, Lume and even Dave are mocking you" ... and I wanted to clarify something. What you say is true but it is also true that I have goodwill, also known as love, towards Natalie. And my love is unconditional love, most days anyways, as Luminous Beauty mentioned. And I applaud your hope(?) that Natalie one day may turn away from denial and confusion and allow you to make kissy faces …
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Back to the main topic(s) and my decisive opinions. Depleted Uranium Munitions- war crime. 9/11 - inside job. One day, some day ... I hope my opinions will be proven and accepted as incontrovertable facts and the criminals are held accountable for their crimes.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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"I fear we are already “testing” mini-nukes. But I don’t KNOW. " Me too.
Posted to What's the 411 on 9/11?
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Can anyone say “cherry-picking”? Here is another cherry, be sure not to choke on the pit.
The survey was conducted by an Iraqi university research team that, for security reasons, was not told the data it compiled would be used by coalition forces. It reveals: • Forty-five per cent of Iraqis believe attacks against British and American troops are justified - rising to 65 per cent in the British-controlled Maysan province; • 82 per cent are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops; • less than one per cent of the population believes coalition forces are responsible for any improvement …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy? Mahatma Ghandi
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Hi What the Heck, Exactly who was defending the the rights of expression Ghandi used? ---------- Hi Jay, I wonder how the Iraqis feel?
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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while the Iraqis would like the American troops to leave as soon as possible, which is certainly reasonable, the Iraqis themselves mostly do not believe now is the time.
• 82 per cent are “strongly opposed” to the presence of coalition troops; Seems like a contradiction to me Jay. I would welcome any references you have to polls that indicate otherwise.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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OK What the Heck, I will humor you. Yes, there was good voter turnout in the Iraqi elections. Jay, I knew you would be back. I detected a masochistic streak in you long ago ;)
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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OK. Don't post any references to support your assertion. Would you care to rebut the apparent contradiction between the poll I referenced and the allegation you made that the Iraqis themselves mostly do not believe now is the time for American troops to leave. Have the Iraqis told you when they want the American troops to leave their country?
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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NaderRaider, I can't vote for Nader because I don't live in the United States. I think independent third, fourth, fifth, etc. parties are great. I vote for the Green Party of Canada. The British Columbia Greens from Canada were the first Green party in North America by the way. Just a side note : A science fiction writer named Greg Bear wrote a book called Eon with Naderites in it.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Leave Iraq ... from 2003 !
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Don't you get it yet ?
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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His regime was also at least pursuing the development of weapons of mass destruction Looks like they got that one wrong too. Nobody is perfect. Years of weapons inspections seemed to do the job very well. Better than a war by a long shot.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Instead of accepting a less-than-ideal situation in Iraq, the United States now is in the position of having to fix what it broke. Iraq is more broken than ever before : Electricity below pre-war levels. Oil exports below pre-wear levels. The only thing above pre-war levels is the killing.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Well ... not the only thing ... but you get my point. Living Conditions in Iraq: A Criminal Tragedy
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Jay, What exactly did I get wrong? Your source for the Iraqi per capita 30% increase, please. I could care less if an argument goes my way or not. If I am wrong about something I will happily correct myself.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Why believe the Iraq inspections were any better? Because no (significant) weapons of mass destruction were found.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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At a Christmas party a good friend and retired Army Lt. Colonel told us we are building their electric, water and sewer systems from scratch. ... and you believe him? Consider this excerpt from the link I provided above :
According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), "Iraq had a modern sanitary infrastructure with an extensive network of water-purification and sewage-treatment systems. Water networks distributed clean, safe water to 95% of the urban population and to 75% of those in rural areas. In 1990, Iraq was ranked 50th out of 130 countries on the UNDP Human Development Index, which measures national …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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I don’t know anyone at WHO. But aren’t they a part of the UN, that outfit which has Libya on their Human Relations Commission? What the Heck, That's right. I suppose that rather than having Libya taking part in efforts to improve human rights you would prefer to bomb them back to the stone age? Thanks for the inforamation regarding our power grid. Ask your friend if he thinks the North American power grid needs any improvements. Wouldn't it be great to be spending some of the billions and trillions of Iraq war costs at home?
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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In 1990, Iraq was ranked 50th out of 130 countries on the UNDP Human Development Index, which measures national achievements in health, education, and per capita GDP
Jay, After the first Gulf War in 1991 and the subsequent sanctions it went downhill in Iraq. After the 2003 invasion and occupation Iraq went over the cliff's edge. Clinton wasn’t even president then. So what ? I don't understand your point. When are you going to tell me what I got wrong?Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Jay, thanks for the LA Times URL. It was informative. How do weigh it against this.
The survey was conducted by an Iraqi university research team that, for security reasons, was not told the data it compiled would be used by coalition forces. It reveals: • Forty-five per cent of Iraqis believe attacks against British and American troops are justified - rising to 65 per cent in the British-controlled Maysan province; • 82 per cent are “strongly opposed” to the presence of coalition troops; • less than one per cent of the population believes coalition forces are responsible for any improvement …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Jay, the reasons for those sanctions ? Hmmm ... To punish Iraqis for being unfortunate enough to have a brutal dictator for a leader and to weaken the country for the 2003 invasion. could you do me the favor and explain away the stats The opinion polls we are discussing have little to do with one another except that they are about Iraq. One tells statistics of automobiles, telephones and newspapers and another tells of opinions about the military occupation of the country. One does not explain away the other. What the Heck you are right about one thing; this …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Jay, I am not cherry picking polls. Never have. What makes you say that ? I merely stated that polls about different subjects and stats on different indicators do not necessarily invalidate or refute the other. As I have said before : I am willing to look at any information anyone has to offer. It's good that Iraqis have independant newspapers to read and that there are more auotmobiles on the road. It's bad that US soldiers at checkpoints shoot up innocent families travelling in their cars. As far as your interpretation of the reason for the sanctions, please explain why …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Jay, Please forgive me : When you said Conspiracy- tainted theory I thought you were trying to taint and malign my statments. I did not say it was not a conspiracy. Jay, will all due respect and please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like you are trying to create animosity and looking for a fight. You will get neither from me. I will repeat for clarity : The reason for the sanctions was to punish Iraqis for being unfortunate enough to have a brutal dictator for a leader and to weaken the country for the …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Does it matter if you call it a civil war? Iraq's constitution could be seen as a draft 'peace pact' for warring parties.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Jay, Peckish, that's OK, it happens. that does imply long ranged intent and planning and collusion between the various personages in power You are an ex-military guy. You should know that the Pentagon has war plans drawn up for conflicts that may happen. It is prudent to plan for eventualities. You are a political guy too. You should know that their is very little difference, especially when it comes to foreign policy (even more so mid-east foreign policy), between Democrats or Republicans. I think that the various personages in power have been waiting for the opportunity to dust off …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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The civil war link was one that I save from months ago. I think my point would best be summed up in this excerpt from that article.
"It's not a threat. It's not a potential. Civil war is a fact of life there now,'' says Pavel Baev, head of the Center for the Study of Civil War at the Peace Research Institute in Oslo, Norway. He argues that until the nature of the conflict is accurately seen, good solutions cannot be found. "What's happening in Iraq is a multidimensional conflict. There's international terrorism, banditry, the major foreign military presence. But the …
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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What the Heck, Thanks for lightening the mood. Hail, Hail, Freedonia!
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Freedonia In the 1990s, the satirical magazine Spy pulled a practical joke on several members of the United States Congress. The magazine successfully convinced several Congressional members, such as Corrine Brown, to issue statements condemning the "ethnic cleansing in Freedonia," without their realizing that Freedonia was a fictional country.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Rabbit, Since I don't hate Jay, I must love him. Since I don't hate anyone, I must love everyone. Hard to fathom, I know, but that's the way it is with me.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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If my Grandfather (on my Dad's side) was still alive he could read it. He read, write and spoke German (high and low), Russian, Romanian and a spoke little Hungarian too.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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Sorry Rabbit, I don't loathe or despise Jay either. The best I can do is dislike his ideals.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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My German is terrible, my French even worse. But seriously, when I try my German out on my grandmother I have to translate it back into English for her to understand me.
Posted to To Leave or Not to Leave
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The fact that you hold pacifism in such disdain means to me only that you do not possess the courage to be a pacifist. Thank you Luminous Beauty. What the Heck, I would also mention that plenty of pacifists have given their lives for their respective societies.
Being a pacifist to save your own life is normal, being a pacifist for the lives of others is true pacifism. Jacob Borer
Posted to Tale of Two Wars
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I love stories. A very nice collection. Many thanks.
Posted to Tale of Two Wars
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Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness. Otto von Bismarck
Posted to Tale of Two Wars
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Merry Christmas Luminous Beauty and What the Heck and Jay. "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."
Posted to Tale of Two Wars
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I’ll bite---Sweden and Canada. Thanks for the nod to Canada, Wiley :) Happy Hogmanay See you next year.
Posted to Tale of Two Wars
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... und tschuss, ja. Gather the rosebuds while you may, the thorns come soon enough.
Posted to Tale of Two Wars
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Oh .. he is funny alright :)
Posted to Lapham's Way
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KV JR, I too am munching wunching on fried chicken (home made) from another ground zero right now. Avian flu be damned. Late lunch. Yummy.
Posted to Your Guess Is as Good as Mine
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Go away ad marshall ... you are abusing electrons. Not nice.
Posted to Your Guess Is as Good as Mine
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Did someone say voices inside my head? Voices Inside My Head (lyrics/music by Sting) Voices inside my head Echoes of things that you said Voices inside my head Echoes of things that you said Voices inside my head Echoes of things that you said Voices inside my head Echoes of things that you said
Posted to Your Guess Is as Good as Mine
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Well said Wiley. I arrived here just before Dave Lindorff bid ITT farewell. Watched it all go down on the Radioactive Wounds of War thread. My thanks, also, to ITT for providing this forum. It is like an idea factory. People put ideas in and more ideas get made .. or reconditioned .. or thrown on the scrap heap.
Posted to Your Guess Is as Good as Mine
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Wiley, Like Ad, I am a Canadian. We have several parties ... Three mainstream, left to right : New Democatic Party (NDP), Liberals, Conservatives. Several fringe, one of them being the Green Party of Canada. The Green Party gets my vote and more people are voting for them every year. ... and a even a satirical political party called the Parti Rhinocéros. Unfortunately they disbanded in 1993 or I would be tempted to vote for them.
Posted to Your Guess Is as Good as Mine
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Wiley, earlier you asked about political parties and I told you about the situation in Canada. Three mainstream, left to right : New Democatic Party (NDP), Liberals, Conservatives. I neglected to mention the Bloc Québécois . They only run federal candidates in Quebec and currently hold 54 out of 308 seats in our federal Parliament. Didn't want my French Canadian brothers and sisters to feel left out.
Posted to Your Guess Is as Good as Mine
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I liked it when AnarchoSozi called Rabbit Kaninchen . (German for Rabbit.)
Posted to Torture in the Homeland
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I have called our bunny like friend Ricochet Rabbit . You liked that one didn't you Rabbit? Vorpal is cool. Coined by Lewis Carroll to describe a sword. Wiley, a humorous ( some would say torturous :) interlude is welcome every now and then. It helps everyone to bond a little and maybe see the other as a friend.
Posted to Torture in the Homeland
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Kuya, excellent posts. I get your points and they are good ones. You say : Now, could all my supposed knowledge be the result of a vast hoax, a global conspiracy to trick people into getting vaccinated and taking medicines, to the profit of some companies. I admit, it is remotely possible. However, in reality, I think it would be impossible to sustain the hoax because too many scientists of integrity would shoot it down. There’s too much freedom of investigation and too much access to media to be able to trick us all like that for long. I would …
Posted to Beatrice Were: Fighting a Deadly U.S. AIDS Policy in Uganda
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As for monetary profit we need only examine a well worn script.
WELL- WORN SCRIPT - Tim O’Shea -thedoctorwithin.com Historical context is certainly relevant: avian flu is right on schedule, with the winding down of the post 9/11 smallpox vaccine and SARS vaccine programs. In these two instances, appropriate hysteria was whipped up, billions were spent, and magically – poof! – both threats disappeared. Nature abhors a vacuum – new funding requires new threats – ergo, we need avian flu to take up the slack. As for marketing, it’s already in place. Why change a successful sales strategy? In the fall …
Posted to Beatrice Were: Fighting a Deadly U.S. AIDS Policy in Uganda
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Other nations, mine included, too. The list is predictably long and distinguished. Here is another example. In the Shadow of Past Atrocities : Research Ethics with Human Subjects in Contemporary Japan Of course, this in keeping in mind that for the most part the governments have admitted past atrocities and promised not to do it anymore. Really, you can trust them now. Now it would seem that some drug manufacturers are doing some of the governments dirty work and possibly getting legislation that protects them from all manners of lawsuits but Legislation would require proof of …
Posted to Beatrice Were: Fighting a Deadly U.S. AIDS Policy in Uganda
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I’ve never had a flu shot in my life, and haven’t caught the flu Me too. And isn't catching the flu, assuming you are a healthy individual and it doesn't kill you, as good or even better, in the long run, than a flu shot?
Posted to Beatrice Were: Fighting a Deadly U.S. AIDS Policy in Uganda
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I am living quite healthily without them now, relying on proper supplements and good nutrition. Good to hear you are doing well, Truthseeker.
Posted to Beatrice Were: Fighting a Deadly U.S. AIDS Policy in Uganda
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Johnny, Please explain to me how Truthseeker's evil nature shows in the last comment? Please consider apologizing.
Posted to Beatrice Were: Fighting a Deadly U.S. AIDS Policy in Uganda
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Korean Ginseng and Korean Kimchi too.
Posted to Cult of Ideology
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Excellent points Athens. Seems like scaremongering to me too. Bird flu is nothing new. It has been around for many years. Some years worse than others. For birds at least. .. the supposed source of a mutation into a human form of the disease .. is an important issue and a concern of mine too. My scam detector has been going off on a regular basis when I hear all of this propaganda to run out and get a flu shot and be worried about the new flu coming to a town near you. Smacks of …
Posted to Their Patents or Your Life
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Oh never mind, This whole scenario is as unlikely as crazy people hijacking planes to kill people with. . Wolfie .. Don't forget the people who feathered their nests with millions of dollars of profits with insider trading and put options on airline stocks in the days preceding 9/11. Amazing but true.
Posted to Their Patents or Your Life
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It's not clear whether Tamiflu is effective against the current strain of the avian flu. In addition, flu viruses are constantly changing so that if there is ever an outbreak of bird flu in the US, Tamiflu may not be effective against that strain. .. read more avian flu information here ..
Posted to Their Patents or Your Life
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Vickbabu, great posts. I agree forget Tamiflu. It is interesting how when I watch the news (CNN) and they are hyping the avain/bird flu they are always flashing pictures of scary chickens and a package of Tamiflu. Great article about the Kimchi and Sauerkraut. The very long URL you posted got broken, extra c and a space. I have provided the hyperlink below for convenience. Kimchi and Sauerkraut
Posted to Their Patents or Your Life
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WELL- WORN SCRIPT Historical context is certainly relevant: avian flu is right on schedule, with the winding down of the post 9/11 smallpox vaccine and SARS vaccine programs. [6] In these two instances, appropriate hysteria was whipped up, billions were spent, and magically – poof! – both threats disappeared. Nature abhors a vacuum – new funding requires new threats – ergo, we need avian flu to take up the slack. As for marketing, it’s already in place. Why change a successful sales strategy? In the fall of 2005, the identical techniques by which SARS and smallpox vaccine terrorized the American psyche …
Posted to Their Patents or Your Life
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Vickbabu and others, Really long URLs can get broken sometimes. http://tinyurl.com/ is helpful. Really long URLs can get broken sometimes. Here on In These Times if the URL is longer than the line length in the comment entry box it gets broken . Spaces and extra letters added. TinyURL is easy to use, copy and paste, bingo bango.
Posted to Their Patents or Your Life
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The drug companies invented nothing! They stole anything that works off native cultures and invariably patented it, or its synthetic copy. Indeed, and what they cannot synthesize or patentize they will demonize and suppressisize. I like making up new words.
Posted to Their Patents or Your Life
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Gold mines and gold diggers. The parallels just don't stop. Think about it in the the slutty and whorish sense. Think high priced contractors and cheap grunts. Being whored out by greedy old warmongers.
Posted to Road to Riches or Ruin?
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That was three questions Matt. I like the third one for it's clarity.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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No questions ... only orders.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Tastes Great. Less Torture. Slogans 'r' us
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Wiley ... Tastes Great. Less Torture. Slogans ‘r’ us ... Glad you enjoyed it. I think the author is an American. I have bookmarked his archives for future reading on a rainy day. What the Heck, you say "The Abu Ghraib stuff was disgusting and stupid, but hardly worse than some of the stupid hazing of basic training in our own military." I would say that the torture and human rights violations at Abu Ghraib, Gitmo and the other secret prisons is just as bad and even worse than hazing that goes on at basic training. Remember that they have not …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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What the Heck, It is your mind that shuts down when an emotion is triggered. It is called shame. Soldiers are being convicted of crimes. Their superiors are partially to blame. All the way to the top. I hope justice gets to the top but I doubt it. <i>We neither know the degree of truth of the charges yet, nor the whether "innocent" is accurately descriptive of the captives.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Here is some of what Secretary of War Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Peter Pace had to say recently. Pace also proved himself to be no 'yes' man. When questioned about torture by the Iraqi authorities, Rumsfeld said "obviously, the United States does not have a responsibility." Pace, however, evidently disagreed, telling the briefing "It is the absolute responsibility of every US service member, if they see inhumane treatment being conducted, to intervene, to stop it." When Rumsfeld tried to correct him, saying, "I don't think you mean they have an obligation to physically stop it; it's …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Torture now to be called the Law and Order Act. Matt H. Torture is already called enhanced interrogation method. Rabbit ... or maybe Torture should be called Doubleplus Pleasure. Keeping true to Mr. Orwell.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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What the Heck, In response to some of my comments you said "Just can’t wait to bad mouth the U.S. can you? You may well get your chance. I guess my judge of Canadians’ sense of justice was too high. How about the proverbial, Can’t tell a book by its cover." If it was my country torturing detainees in custody I would be even more harsh in my criticism. As for judging a book by it's cover ... I try hard not to. I have not judged you personally. I have judged your country in a …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Wiley, you should be posting that on the White Phosphorous Lies Thread. Shia, Sunni, Kurd HERE See my response there. Same as Dahr's. You and Rabbit have the same wrong thread thing going on. Learning new things is fun.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Indeed ... But I will wear my heart upon my sleeve.For daws to peck at. I am not what I am. Shakespeare - Othello
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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daws definition Daws to peck at or Rabbits to poke at.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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All kidding around aside ...
I understand the griping about the humiliating of one’s religion, but torture is a source of interrogation, it has been around as long as time and it is quite effective, the Geneva Convention and the UN need to keep their noses out of certain things and this is one of those issues, remember 9/11… these are our enemies. Posted by Robert W. Loken Jr. on Dec 5, 2005 at 10:59 AM
Robert W. Loken Jr., aka : Mr Loken, Rockwooky, Bobwankalot, You deserve the fancy HTML blockquote for your mind numbing words of …Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Hmmm ... Unlike Iago .. I Am What I Am. Peck and Poke away.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Oh Wiley, this is just foreplay. This is only post 68. But ... Now it's time to say good night good night sleep tight Now the sun turns out his light good night sleep tight Dream sweet dreams for me Dream sweet dreams for you Close your eyes and I'll close mine Good night sleep tight Now the moon begins to shine Good night sleep tight Dream sweet dreams for me Dream sweet dreams for you Good night everybody Beatles - Good Night Good night until ... The sun'll come out tomorrow Bet your bottom dollar That tomorrow There'll be sun! …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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A thread is dead when you find yourself talking to the walls of an empty room. Very true Pick of the Litter. Or talking to your terminal. It’s not quite on the torture topic Don't worry too much about going a little off topic. I sure don't mind the occassional cogent tangent. Your posts are worthy.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Lawyers for Iraqis tortured while in U.S. custody have sued two private security companies for allegedly abusing prisoners to extract information from them with the goal of winning more contracts from the U.S. government. Torture Victims Sue U.S. Security Companies
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Luminous Beauty, you have called Jason Jordan on a couple of occassions now :) You said to Jason : all your philosophy is but a finger pointing at the moon. This reminded me of something I saw the other day. Check out the "Good Night Moon" Special Edition Book at the bottom right of the page. The rest of the toys are pretty amusing too.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Now Wiley is calling Luminous Beauty Rabbit like Luminous Beauty was calling Jason Jordan yesterday. On another thread Rabbit is posting comments that belong on yet another thread. One hopes that this is not a sympton of the scourge of old timers disease ravaging your once bright and beautiful minds. Or have you been smoking something? It's sad. Do you remember your own names ? Hello, is there anyone in there? Just nod if you can here me. Is there anyone at home? Just teasing. :)
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Hi Eadora, good to see you posting here again. Luminous Beauty, is there another term for those otherwise intelligent people who cannot see the denotative and have no room for the connotative either? Rhetorical question but I hope you, or anyone else for that matter, has an inspired answer for us. My thinking is along the lines of the protective stupidity that Orwell mentions here :
A Party member is expected to have no private emotions and no respites from enthusiasm. He is supposed to live in a continuous frenzy of hatred of foreign enemies …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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that the Party is infallible the word of the United States is as good as gold Wow, right from the playbook.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. James 5:1-3
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Nice photos Wiley, I liked the ducks and the babbling brook best ... quack quack. Nice to see ducks and squirrels getting along. Here where I live the Stellar Jays and squirrels are always scolding one another. The cloud photo at the end ... I see a face with a strong jawline.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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I don’t think a person can be classed or branded as a troll as long as he/she is consistent and honest in her/his, viewpoints, opinions & facts. Eadora, I strongly agree. I am not sure that I have even met a troll yet, despite seeing the label being applied to several people. From the Wikipedia article : a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages on the internet ... to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants .... Inflammatory, sarcastic, disruptive or humorous content is posted, meant to draw other users into engaging the troll in a fruitless …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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... and in a way this is on topic . Isn't calling another person a troll or any other sort of slur inflammatory ? Sounds like abuse and maybe even torture to me. I recognize the term as part of the internet lingo but think it is more harmful than good. There certainly are real trolls out there, I have seen them from afar at other corners of the internet, but never met one yet here at In These Times. Or maybe I have when I remember ... sheeps clothing but inside ravenous trolls .... …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matthew 10:16
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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My aplogies for the homily but our In These Times hosts request that we be respectful in our comments, always worth repeating, and it is a tangent worthy of this discussion too.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Luminous Beauty, sarcasm noted and enjoyed immensely. Thank you. Embrace Your Inner Troll , brilliant ! Maybe one day your coining of that phrase will make it into a Wikipedia entry. Thanks for cat and mouse link. Yes, Jay is back. I am happy too.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Oh ... they exist ... in everyone of us :)
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Another big mistake is to insist that all people are basically evil. People are basically good and evil. Wiley, you have been very nice. It has been warm and fuzzy here mostly of late. Sometimes the words exchanged have become unnecessarily and excessively inflammatory.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Sometimes the words exchanged here in the past have become unnecessarily and excessively inflammatory. Wiley, use the word troll as you like. Speaking the language is fine. I think you may feel my words were singling you out, they were not. Just reminding everyone to be nice as much as is possible. Jousting with civilized words is fine and more instructive than hurling cheap insults.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Wack a troll. Fine. Be sure it is a troll. Be sure that you are not tilting at windmills.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Like the frog that needed a kiss to turn into a prince ... Maybe a troll needs a hug to turn into a friend.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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cold winter ... A father and sons who are friends of mine.... Sons " It's cold in here. Turn on the heat. " Dad " Put on a sweater. " Sons " I am still cold. Turn on the heat. " Dad " Do your chores. That will warm you up. " And in the summer ... Sons " It's hot in here. " Dad " Take off the sweater. " Sons " I am still hot. " Dad " Remember when you were cold last …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Hi Eadora ... this thread got a little stale. We took it off topic into a discussion about trolls and the original topic of torture fizzled out.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the …
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Hmm .. maybe he was high on life. Or death.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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.. and I just realized that Eadora already posted the URL for this article as it appeared on Information Clearing House. Sorry for the repitition.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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The Book of Revelation is very controversial. The Revelation of Jesus Christ ... unto his servant John
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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Luminous Beauty, Thanks for the lead. I will visit my local used bookstores to look for it. At the one store they will even find a used copy for me. They just found me a copy of C.S. Lewis The Screwtape Letters a couple weeks ago. Wiley, I understand your concerns about Revelations and the like being used as justification for apocalyptic warmongering. Not my favorite either.
Posted to Torturers R' Us
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ITT needs more women posting comments and taking part in these discussions. It is interesting that it is mostly men who take part in these discussions. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems the guys outnumber the ladies by a large margin.
Posted to The Times Disses Women
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Yes, good piece. I hesitate to point out that, when it comes to television, advertising and programming (pun intended), there are many instances where men are portrayed as bumbling morons and women as clever geniuses. An equally undeserved stereotype for both, in all it's variations. Yes?
Posted to The Times Disses Women
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Looking deeper into the depths of hell ... aah yes, I see it now too. Thanks CornChip.
Posted to The Times Disses Women
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I am concerned that the next preemptive war will start before the Iraq war is over ( always remembering the consequences of war go on forever ). click here ... connecting the dots ...
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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David---I started reading the article you connected to but my innner scream stopped me. Scary, isn' it. Or sad, I wept on the inside. If provocation doesn't work there are other means to the end.
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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the proverbial ... Read it and weep. Or laugh. Or scream. Or get drunk. Or get Jesus.
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Wiley, great quote from Willy Shakespeare. Please allow me to complete the line. "The quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven." William Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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It looks like Rumsfeld has been talking with his hands some more and having epiphanies too. The US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld has banned the use of the word 'insurgents' when referring to the militants operating in Iraq. "Over the weekend I thought to myself. 'You know, that gives them a greater legitimacy than they seem to merit," he told journalists during a Pentagon briefing on Tuesday. "It was an epiphany," he said, throwing his hands in the air. IRAQ: RUMSFELD BANS THE WORD 'INSURGENTS'
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Campesino, How about sharing your knowledge in the spirit of good will? Saying people are ignorant and insinuating they are idiots is not a very good way to teach them something they could learn. Sorry, but your rudeness is just as overwhelming.
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Yes, English Literature was a great class. Seems like yesterday. It is enthrončd in the hearts of kings; It is an attribute to God himself, And earthly power doth then show likest God’s When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew, Though justice be thy plea, consider this: That in the course of justice none of us Should see salvation. We do pray for mercy, And that same prayer doth teach us all to render The deeds of mercy. Shakespeare - Merchant of Venice
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Yes, I did read the wikipedia entries. A better word to describe the Shia and Sunni would be denominations. Sunni and Shia are examples of denominations of Islam. Kurds are an ethnic/linguistic group of people. There are different tribes and clans within Kurds and some Kurds are even Shia or Sunni Muslims by denomination. There are different clans, tribes, ethnic groups within Sunnis and Shias as well. But I certainly would not call you an idiot over a simple definition. As you said thoroughly asinine . Share the knowledge I always say. Nicely.
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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People eventually become what they are pretending to be.
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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People eventually become what they are pretending to be. (and I was quoting, loosely from memory, from C.S. Lewis - The Screwtape Letters) ...so be careful about what you pretend to be. (has a nice finish to the line - thanks Minerva and Mr. Vonnegut)
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Wiley asks, David in Canada, what triggered the Lewis quote? Your words here did : I’d say that the partial drowning of prisoners is morally FUBAR and anyone who takes part in this practice who is not a sociopath or psychopath, and anyone who is a victim of this practice (no matter their level of development in human bondedness) is and will become a different person---an alien even to themselves---and will be torn for life. They’ve hotwired their brains with the emotional lizard/brain intensity, violation of limits that resets “the bar”, and inhumanity. If you want to guarantee that people will …
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Patience Rabbit. Look for me at sunrise on the third day of the new moon. January 3, 2006 .... or maybe sooner. Swim Rabbit Swim .... Troll piss washes off too. Try a little soap.
Posted to White Phosphorous Lies
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Avian Flu (aka bird flu) has been around forever. I have friends who were grew up on poultry farms and they tell me so. Some years are worse than others. It is nothing new and certainly nothing to be scared of. Mostly hype. Scam and hoax are also words that come to mind. Lining the pockets of pharmaceutical companies with tax dollars for vaccines that do more harm than good. Have no fear. Enjoy your Thanksgiving Turkey with all the trimmings and your Christmas Goose too.
Posted to How concerned are you about a possible bird flu pandemic?
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So long as everyone is endeared of one another, for whatever reason, I am happy.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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I’m afraid that the attitudes in military people is a reflection of our entire society. Might makes right ... Kill 'em all ... Death worship. Cliches. Sad but true.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Wiley , that was a really great post. I keep reading it over and over. Another old cliche : the enemy is us. If we can call others a friend, it is not them that has changed for the better, it is us.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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... another great post from Wiley. I am a pacifist but have respect for soldiers and veterans like Wiley. Soldiers who will do their duty and not just blindly follow unlawful orders. Thanks for mentioning the nuclear weapons (aka depleted uranium = toxic nuclear waste) that are being used right now in Iraq and Afghanistan. Used in the Balkans too. Good to have someone like you here Wiley. Thank you.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Wolf, so if we call you Wolfie (pronounced Volfie) you don't mind too much? I have a hardcore (pun) German middle name too : Gerhard.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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mmmm ... turkey ... I can taste it now. Turkey, with stuffing like my Mom makes, and mashed potatoes. All of it dripping with gravy. We had our Thanksgiving here in Canada last month. Click here for Canadian Thankgiving history. Have a good Thanksgiving Day my American friends and give thanks for all things.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Rabbit ... a day to eat turkeys. The proverbial killing of turkeys usually takes place some day before the eating day.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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It rains maple syrup, the real stuff , here. Just like up on Big Rock Candy Mountain.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Rabbit, never heard of the Ozark Mountain Daredevils until now. Wiley, we don't pardon turkeys up here. I saw one of your pardoned turkeys in a parade. It did not look very happy. That poor turkey would have been better off on someone's dinner plate.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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whoa ... where did that question come from Scorp?
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Did I miss some posts on this thread ??
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Though it makes sense for an “ethical” race of extraterrestials to contact a Canadian Wiley, As a humble representatvive of at least this Canadian, I thank you for the compliment. We are not worthy but will do our best :)
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Hah ... Good one Wiley... I wondered and think I was mostly successful in holding back on the gender specific pronouns. Once burned, twice shy. Rabbit and Luminous Beauty and others will get the joke. Good to have you here Wiley.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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radiological contamination is hard to forgive Depleted Uranium Muntions ... otherwise known as Toxic Nuclear Waste made into bullets and bombs. Toxic and radioactive . Seems almost impossible to forgive. It won't go away. The gift/curse that keeps on giving/killing.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Hah .. second I think. Dodgy Rodgy first.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Bad monkeys! Bad monkeys!! Bad, bad, bad monkeys!!! Roger Waters - Perfect Sense - part 1 The monkey sat on a pile of stones And he stared at the broken bone in his hand And the strains Viennese quartet Rang out across the land The monkey looked up at the stars And he thought to himself Memory is a stranger History is for fools And he cleaned his hands In a pool of holy writing Turned his back on the garden And set out for the nearest town Hold on hold on soldier When you add it all up The tears …
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Roger Waters - Perfect Sense - part 2 Can't you see It all makes perfect sense Expressed in dollars and cents Pounds shillings and pence Can't you see It all makes perfect sense Little black soul departs in perfect focus Prime time fodder for the News at Nine Darling is the child warm in the bed tonight Hi everybody I'm Marv Albert And welcome to our telecast Coming to you live from Memorial Stadium It's a beautiful day And today we except a sensational matchup Bur first our global anthem Can't you see It all makes perfect sense Expressed in dollars …
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Singing it to myself ... gives me chills.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Amused To Death - Roger Waters - excellent album. Went to my truck to get the CD. Listening now.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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... and it is from 1992. Still speaks today.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Roger Waters - The Bravery of Being Out of Range You have a natural tendency To squeeze off a shot You're good fun at parties You wear the right masks You're old but you still Like a laugh in the locker room You can't abide change You're at home an the range You opened your suitcase Behind the old workings To show off the magnum You deafened the canyon A comfort a friend Only upstaged in the end By the Uzi machine gun Does the recoil remind you Remind you of sex Old man what the hell you gonna kill next …
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Luminous Beauty, welcome back. I missed you. Glad you liked the Roger Waters-Amused to Death excerpts. Better heard than read. Where are all the trolls? Jay said goodbye. Said he other things to do. I drop by his blog every now and then to check on him. Have not seen Scorp in quite a bit. I miss him too. Wiley, ADE is Another Day in Empire Excellent essays there from a guy named Kurt Nimmo. I met Rabbit there back a few months ago when I first decided to take part in these online discussions. The option to post comments …
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Wiley, I took a quick look at the URLs you shared. I guess I will have to make a livejournal account to be able to post? I won't mind too much but another username and password to keep track of. Shudder. Unless you enable anonymous posting. Whatever that means? I am still a rookie at this. I like the process here at ITT (and Rabbits and a couple forums I visit). Name and email. Simple.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Apologies to Jay and Scorp. Just speaking the language that everyone understands. One man's troll is another man's friend. But can't he be both? I have, on a few occassions, defended Jay and Scorp. Defended their right to be here. I am sorry that Jay went away. I think that Rabbit's taunting had something to do with it. Rabbit, and others, are my friends but so are Jay and Scorp and Wolf and What the Heck too. So I speak to all my friends and say that we should all try to respect one another here. And there. Try?
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Wack away Rabbit. But as you say , give them opportunities to avoid some blows . As much as possible, please.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Nein Kaninchen. I don't think so. Your posts have been flip flopping between Rabbit and GhostRabbit for some time now. Blame confused electrons first.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Hmm ... see what you mean about the flip flopping. I think that if you were officially blocked that they would block GhostRabbit too. Odd.
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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electrons are forever doing the electron dance people will wake up given half a chance Don't despair Rabbit. Or if you must, then despair today but rejoice tomorrow. Guru Let My Little Light Shine Davinder Davdi
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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Once there was a way to get back homeward Once there was a way to get back home Sleep pretty darling do not cry And I will sing a lullaby Golden slumbers fill your eyes Smiles awake you when you rise Sleep pretty darling do not cry And I will sing a lullaby Once there was a way to get back homeward Once there was a way to get back home Sleep pretty darling do not cry And I will sing a lullaby Beatles - Golden Slumbers Rabbit, when I read your post I immediately thought of this song. Took a …
Posted to When Boys Will be Jarheads
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With friends like FEMA, who needs Jim Crow? Good one, Benjamin.
Posted to Voter Disenfranchisement by Attrition
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Here is a link to a guy that thinks smoking actually helps protect you from lung cancer : smoking is good ?? I quit smoking cigarettes years ago. I smoke marijuana and eat it occasionally as well. Harmful? Sure but what isn't. I use butter and eat bacon and eggs nearly every day and I think that butter,bacon and eggs are actually good for you compared to coffee and doughnuts. It's all relative, man.
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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Neil, sorry you lost your post. I look forward to a possible repost? A good habit to get into is to copy your post just before submitting. I have lost a few posts too. Gremlins eat them up.
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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A Monkey is sitting in a tree smoking a joint when a Lizard walks past and looks up and says to the Monkey, "Hey! what are you doing?" The Monkey says, "Smoking a joint, come up and have some." So the Lizard climbs up and sits next to the Monkey and they have a few tokes together. After a while the Lizard says his mouth is 'dry' and that he's going to get a drink from the river. The Lizard climbs down the tree, ditty bops on thru the jungle to the river and leans over the river to get his …
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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.... the parable of the monkey.
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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.... or is it a fable?
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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It's all relative man... The admonition is to try to remain on-topic. Tangents are fun and an important part of these discussions.
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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Think Bombs.
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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HTML experiment here .. A couple more tips ... for those who don't already know HTML ... and one for those who use tinyURL in hyperlinks. Using HTML to make a hyperlink to a reference is easy. Here is an example of a hyperlink HTML command : words to become link goes here The line above is an inactive example. Replace URL goes here between the " " with the URL/address. Replace words to become link goes here between the > with whatever word or …
Posted to The President's Husband
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Abstinence is best. I started with sex at far too young an age. A fast and furious attitude towards sex in my teenage years and into my twenties has burned me out. I thank God I made it through unscathed. Isn't the free and loose attitude towards sex partially responsible for an abundance of problems. Need examples? How about : Explosions in numbers of teenage mothers.Irresponsible teenage fathers and mothers. Children suffering for it. Some children neglected and others unwanted. Dare I mention abortion? Sex is cheap and life is cheaper? Adultery and Divorce. Parents and children suffering for …
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Monogamy is best too. I look at friends who were abstinent and waited for or waited until a faithful and monogamous relationship or a faithful and monogamous marriage for a (fully) sexual relationship and see the undeniable benefits. They are more likely to be monogamous and continue to be so than those who were not abstinent or monogamous. Like I say, I am burned out now, sexual relationships mean little to me and increasingly so. I blame my early lack of abstinence and monogamy. Maybe it is just a phase :) If I had kids …
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Mitcherino, Yes, education should not be limited to abstinence and birth control information, STD information should be included. I never said otherwise. I was merely sharing my opinion and experience. I believe that abstinence and monogamy are the better choice to be made. Free will prevails.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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... and my opinion has nothing to do with religious belief or politics. It simply is my belief based on my experience.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Pro Phylactic, I have seen the God on their side article before and the research it cites could be called a non sequitir : Jumping to conclusions. Here is a quote from the article : “The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.” It is impossible to blame religion alone for this. There are many contributing factors.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Thank you Reverend Gunther. Well said.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Pro-Phylactic ... sound, science-based measures and programs ... ... should not condone or by lack of representation of all the options free and loose sex for teenagers. It is all a matter of being informed, about the physical consequences and the mental, emotional and spiritual consequences as well. .... self-indulging consecrated belief that it is your manifest destiny to ordain zealous, deluding biblical tenets upon teenagers is not only wishful thinking, but destructive as well. Agreed, hold the reins of the child/teenager to tight and they may kick against the pricks or may bolt when set …
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Scott, Sarcasm is hard to detect in the written word. I think you were sincere in your compliment(?) to the RevGunther. Please confirm this for me as I don't want to jump to any conclusions . Thanks.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Pro-Phylactic You say religious affiliations all over the country are lobbying hard to undermine sound, science-based measures and programs that effectively deal with teen sex-related problems, all in the name of dogma. Aren't abstinence and monogamy just as sound? Regardless of any dogma you or others may attach to them? Some of my friends are not religiously affiliated and they think abstinence and monogamy are the better way too. I am not religiously affiliated but I am a believer . But I will excommunicate or kill you if you do not believe what I believe. OK ?
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Pro-Phylactic, The problem as exposed in the article, lies with our government squandering precious resources in catering to special interests with an agenda to set deleterious standards for our society. Yes, equal opportunity for all perspectives is best. Both sides consider the other to be special interest groups. If we really have the best interests of the kids at heart we are all on the same side.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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oops .... sorry ... fast and furious typing without proofreading .... here is a very important correction. But I will NOT excommunicate or kill you if you do not believe what I believe. OK ?
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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... not a Freudian slip. ... hehe ... more of a blooper.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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thanks Scott ... a double negative ... ? ... but I think I understand ... yes, not sarcasm ?
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Still can't get over my oops and the subsequent correction. Had a nice duality though. Believe that it was not subconcious. Know it's not if I will it not to be? Scott, you are doing great. Understanding one another is the first step to knowing one another. The step after that is loving one another. Or maybe loving has to come first ?
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Thank you again Rev. You took the love one another ball and ran with it for a touchdown.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Suffering cheerfully endured, ceases to be suffering and is transmuted into an ineffable joy. Mahatma Ghandi
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Jesus Christ : Matthew 5:6
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Those last posts were mostly for you Binskins. Be thankful in all things. Not some things but all things. Forgive others so that you may be forgiven.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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" I am no longer a Christian because of the hypocracy " No, you have it backwards. The hypocrite is no longer a Christian and maybe never was but maybe still can be.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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The hypocrite is possibly no longer a Christian and ......
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Neruda, Suffering is part of life. Learning from suffering and going on despite suffering is part of life too. Doing so with a cheerful spirit is better than with a bitter spirit. I do not see any evidence of encouragement for silence. I commend Biskins for speaking her mind and you as well. "Don’t get me wrong I have known good caring sincere Christians but, like Jesus, they seem to be going against the current." Yes, the path is narrow.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Great article Major Major - thanks for sharing it.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Was out and about on the internet today and found this : 3 minute abortion debate Please click on the hyperlink but be warned ... it may offend.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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... oh .. and read the comments .. well worth it.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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The previous hyperlink was a _________ response? I like looking at all sides of the debate. Here is another link : another perspective Sorry to drag this discussion into abortion, I did dare myself to say it in my first post, but it is a tangent on the topic. Yes?
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Just putting it all out there. Any comments? It ain't easy ... that's for sure ... it ain't easy ... When you climb to the top of the mountain Look out over the sea Think about the places we have Where a young man could be Then you jump back down to the rooftops Look over the town Then you think about all of the strange things Circulating 'round It ain't easy It ain't easy It ain't easy with all that's going down All the people have got their problems That ain't no bad news With the help of the good …
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Easy there Scott. I am insufferable too. Just putting it out there for discussion. People can do what they want. I am into free will. Thanks for your comments.
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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Great post Kuya. Yeah, burned out, but I am sure the fire can be stoked again. Waiting for a spark ... or lightning. A better description might be : Smoldering ... for now. Waiting for more wood (pun!).
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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... and love is like oxygen. Sorry, could not resist ... I am so insufferable sometimes !!
Posted to Mo Money for Monogamy
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analysis schlamalisis...dust to dust...we pray this day...and everyone said amen.
Posted to U.S. Military Eyes Paraguay
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Found this : religious quiz Take the quiz and please share the results. I have taken a similar quiz before. If anyone has another worth taking (not saying this one is) please share it. David's results : Taoism Your ideals mostly resemble those of the Taoist faith. Spirituality is the most important thing in your life. You strive to live by all of your ideals, and live a very intellectually focused life. 50% spiritual. 0% reason-oriented.
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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Kuya - thanks for sharing the results. I will eventually post a summary when more have had the chance to take the quiz. When considering your results remember that the spectrums of the axis (axes?) are : SCIENTIFIC - SPIRITUAL REASON - FAITH
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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I get much more of a spiritual rush and a worshipful feeling from what I learn in science than I ever did in church. For me, that stuff IS the juice! Kuya, my biggest rush is nature and the whole universe. I could care less if I understand it, I just enjoy it. Jay, thanks for sharing the results. I think one can be scientific and spiritual too. My faith and reason score was 0%. One foot on either side of the fence.
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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We are all Klein bottles. We are all beautiful butterflies. We are all helping each other to be well. And it only hurts a bit ;) Suffering cheerfully endured, ceases to be suffering and is transmuted into an ineffable joy. - Ghandi
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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click here for Lorenz butterfly simulation Very cool, thank you Luminous Beauty.
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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Kuya, I don't like suffering either... There's a dark & a troubled side of life There's a bright, there's a sunny side, too Tho' we meet with the darkness and strife The sunny side we also may view Keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side, Keep on the sunny side of life It will help us ev'ry day, it will brighten all the way If we'll keep on the sunny side of life The storm and its fury broke today, Crushing hopes that we cherish so dear; Clouds and storms will, in time, pass away The sun again …
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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But the suffering has something to teach us. Yes? I sure hope it does.
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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... paraphrased ... a piece of poo and the last laugh is on you
Posted to Islam Needs Radicals
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Give me cognitive liberty or give me a revolution.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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A revolution where nobody gets hurt. I have an interest in what happens to anyone anywhere. One day I may be in the same situation and some advice would be helpful. Maybe I have already been in the same situation and some advice would be helpful. Lots of problems here, there and everywhere.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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I choose to care about what happens to others. I choose to help if I can. I choose Free Will. Cognitive Liberty is Universal. But nothing is really free or universal in this sense : Cognitive liberty can be lost or taken away, especially if we forget what it is.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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" many things can trigger these transcendent states, including fasting, meditation, prayer, yoga and entheogenic drugs." I have always approached drugs with a certain amount of sacred ritual. Everything from coffee to teonanacatl.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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Well said Kuya. Passionate indeed. I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death! Cognitive liberty !! or go on being brain dead.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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"Pleeze, will a Canadian sponsor me so i can escape this degenerate capitalist nightmare?" Good one Rain Box. Come on up. Lots of room. All are welcome in Canada.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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Dr. D An empty line between will separate paragraphs. The way you see it when you type it is how it will post.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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To learn about using italics and bold and other HTML tags, only a few of which are allowed to be used posting at ITT, go here : HTML cheat sheet
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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oops Go here : HTML cheat sheet To learn about tiny URLs go here : TinyURL.com
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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We must be the change we wish to see. Ghandi Best advice I can offer off the cuff. Be a good example, for friends, family and strangers.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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Ignore the HTML stuff. Go to an old thread where nobody is posting anymore and experiment there.. Type stuff in .. Hit ENTER twice .. to start a new paragraph ..
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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You like everything .. logical or not .. are you high? Just teasing :)
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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I forgive you and thank you. Or thank you and forgive you. Select what order pleases you.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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Sorry to jump in on the question to you Dr. D Am i forgiven?
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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Luddite ... I enjoyed the interlude ... maybe I am a Luddite? Hmmm ... navel gazing commences .................
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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I hate acronyms, there are too many of them these days and I get tired of asking what they mean. I love libertarian principles. Give me that good old freedom, please. We don’t need no thought control.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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Minerva, good points made with humor. Excellent post. I do not think excessive ‘cognitively aware’ states should be glorified either. The 'abuse of' and 'addiction to' drugs and alcohol (and other things too) has no glory at all, especially around kids. Be the example you want to see. Moderation in all things.
Posted to Give Me Cognitive Liberty
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....a feel-good guide to conquest and capitalism...... ....American power and privilege are intrinsically beneficent.... No kidding, eh? As a fellow Canuckistanian I also worry about our neighbour to the south. Free Trade disputes are the least of our worries when the USA seems to be on the proverbial warpath.
Posted to Empire Made Easy
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.... fellow Canuckistanian .. or is it Canuckistani ? Sounds better.
Posted to Empire Made Easy
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Neil, Actually it was Pat Buchanan babble of a few years ago. I actually like the name Canuckistan . The irony is not lost on me and if we can't laugh at ourselves then we are taking it too seriously. Codger, I feel for you man. America has been hijacked by it's own leaders. Mom has been beaten to the ground and the apple pie dumped on the floor. Good to see that you are not drinking the Kool-Aid.
Posted to Empire Made Easy
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I live in British Columbia, Canada. Marijuana is very common here. I think that alcohol is more harmful than marijuana. I enjoy both every now and then. Our police and courts up here are lenient with marijuana charges and sentencing. The political will to enforce the marijuana laws is weaker every day. The political will to decriminalize or possibly regulate marijuana is stronger every day.
Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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Speaking of sheep and goats ... here is a bit of a song by a band called Cake ... the song is called ... Sheep go to Heaven, Goats go to Hell Now, I just want to play on my panpipes, I just want to drink me some wine, As soon as you're born, you start dying, So you might as well have a good time, Sheep go to Heaven, Goats go to Hell, Sheep go to Heaven, Goats go to Hell,
Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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I am sure that Luminous Beauty meant it in the most friendly way possible : cabron defintion hee hee
Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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Luminous Beauty I love a mystery too. Rabbit is hinting at the mystery where I came right out and asked you directly for the answer. You provided a few more clues and after careful examination I had the answer. That mystery. Solved for some, still a mystery for others.
Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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No worries .... I really enjoyed the interlude you provided.
Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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CornChip, Excellent testimony my friend. Testify my brother. I too believe in the the freedom to have a private water well. And .. oh, yes, and too grow some marijuana too. Imagine the horror ... the horror... One day they may tax you for the raindrops you can catch in your mouth. Or the pennies on your eyes?
Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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.... put on your red shoes and dance the blues
Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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Click Here for the story of a British officer who is willing to go to jail for refusing to return to Iraq because he thinks the war is illegal.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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... and I think it is maybe Busheviks?
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Oh, don’t forget that in the “WMD conspriracy of intellilgence”, virtually all of Europe were co-cospirators. Clinton too. Pretty much everyone. . . Exactly Wolf, they are all in on it. It is a good cop / bad cop routine acted out for mass consumption. Cynical Dave says it is all so predictable it is getting boring.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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So the Democrats are war mongers too.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Yeah, I bet America would have happily sold Saddam some more of those WMD if he would use them on the Iranians again.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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jams, the long URLs get broken, extra letters and spaces too. Click here for tinyURL.com Check it out. Using tinyURL.com is easy.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Balkanization of Iraq has always been the plan. Divide and conquer. Conquer and divide. The divisions between .... us and them, liberals and conservatives, controlled opposition .... serve the same purpose for the greedy and power seeking warmongers. Thesis. Antithesis. Synthesis.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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republicans democrats whores pot kettle black mostly
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Luminous Beauty, try that hyperlink again for me please. I have found this . But am scared to go looking further without a guide. Your help as always is greatly appreciated.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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apologies to Jay ... but ... I dig you Zappa Rabbit.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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ahh ... the proverbial biscuit and crux thereof.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Are you sure you won't provide the proverbial gravy ??
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Please.!? Seriously. I know asking nicely counts. Thank you in advance.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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My eternal gratitude for revealing the way. I will see you on the other side. It is only a little scary .... P.S. we missed Halloween by two weeks.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Ozzy - See You on the Other Side Voices, a thousand, thousand voices Whispering, the time has passed for choices Golden days are passing over, yeah I can’t seem to see you baby Although my eyes are open wide But I know I’ll see you once more When I see you, I’ll see you on the other side Yes, I’ll see you, I’ll see you on the other side Leaving, I hate to see you cry Grieving, I hate to say goodbye Dust and ash forever, yeah Though I know we mus be parted As sure as stars are in the …
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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... I claim fair use and ... copyright etc etc be damned ...
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Vera Lynn ? - We'll meet again.... Let's say goodbye with a smile, dear, Just for a while, dear, we must part. Don't let the parting upset you, I'll not forget you, sweetheart. We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when, But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day. Keep smiling through, just like you always do, 'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away. So will you please say hello to the folks that I know, Tell them I won't be long. They'll be happy to know that as you saw me go, I was singing …
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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... forgot the italics but the message is there. Is war and killing all we know? Some may call it hyperbole, but for me it is not. It makes me sad. Good night. See you all tomorrow.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Jay , the spaces and sometimes dupilcate letters are the ITT gremlins doing what gremlins do. When the URLs are really long (longer than the comment field) they get broken. TinyURL.com can be helpful or simply hyperlink your URLs.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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... a show down ... ten paces ... draw... my money is on Lumninous Beauty ... sorry Jay ... your shots miss the mark ... the target I see at least. Luminous Beauty is like the Lone Ranger. Wearing the white hat ... hi ho Silver ... away. Apologies everywhere there. Just having fun. Glad that it is war of words.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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My Confession ... by David I told him.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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How is that for funny? Sorry Jay and Luminous Beauty. In a way I betrayed both of you. Luminous Beauty then, Jay now. Maybe I told Jay back a while ago when I saw this Jay comment to you: a legend in HER own mind I had visited his blog previously and emailed him to tell him that it was actually his not her . I throw myself upon your mercy. Both of you.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Thanks ... hoped it would be received this way.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Rabbit asks : Well Mr Dave, what say ye now to this Troll? No pussy footing around, no equivocations, out with it. Is it Man or Troll? Is it Troll or Demon troll? Jay is a man. I appreciate his participation here on this forum. It would not be the same without him. Rabbit would advise Dave, who has exercised kindness and perhaps a little overindulgence towards the Jay, to not feed it anymore. If a brother shall ask bread of any of you, will you give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will you for a fish …
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Everyone should be baking bread and catching fish. Then sharing the bread and fish with others. Then teaching others to bake bread and catch fish.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Mention fishing and suddenly Scorp and Rabbit have something in common. I like fishing too. I liked the little poems. Yours especially Scorp. Sturgeons were the catch of the day for me and my Dad and Grandfather until they became protected species around here. Now I am mostly after trout and salmon.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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the next war ? War without end ?
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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A goodbye isn't painful unless you're never going to say hello again. Jay, goodbye ... for now?
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Rabbit and GhostRabbit. That is interesting. Ghost electrons? Or is it electron ghosts?
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Sory to interrupt ... just heard this on an advertisement for some (adult political) cartoon on television : Jesus was black. Ronald Raygun was the devil. The government is lying about 9/11. Will try to bring more details if I see/hear it again.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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... my spin on it ... another piece of propaganda pie, sliced and served, to chew on and spit out. It will be interesting to see how mainstream 9/11 lies become.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Serious question : Is addressing it and laughing at it by way of a cartoon, with the associated lines quoted above, helping or hurting?
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Excellent summary Rabbit. Don't forget the insider trading and put options on airline stocks just before 9/11. David I think that making a cartoon about it, or hearing about it in jokes etc, is trivialising it. For too many people they are so brainwashed that even when the truth becomes totally mainstream, the sheeple will not form any conclusions about it other than what they are told to conclude. Yeah, propaganda pie, looks yummy but leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Some people don't realize they are eating shit. They swallow it down , tell us it tastes just fine …
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Hi Beowulf, welcome back. Hi Rabbit and Natalie too. Rabbit, you are the proverbial knight in shiny armor and I salute you. Natalie, as much as it pains me to say it, you are the knight in armor that is not so shiny.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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I will point out that there are readers watching this exchange. Silent spectators. I like to watch ... heehee ... but I speak up every now and then too.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Hi Jay, good to see you jumping back into the fray.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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so I may be beating a dead horse When one finds oneself riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. Harnessing several dead horses together is if no use at all.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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Hi Natalie, I believe that the collapse of WTC 1, WTC 2 and WTC 7 were not the result of the plane crashes into WTC 1 and WTC 2 and/or the subsequent fires. I believe that controlled demolition with the use of explosives is the most probable cause from the evidence I have studied. Controlled demolition with explosives seems to be the only answer for the collapse of WTC 7. I have questions about the official story that I feel have not been satisfactorily answered. What do you think of the collapse of WTC 7? What do you think …
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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One more question for you Natalie. What do you think of the war games being run preceding and on 9/11? Enough said here. Take yourself to the new thread, where the discussion has already begun, if you care to and maybe you will find me there. Or you may not. I have grown a little weary of watching a nag being flogged.
Posted to Democrats: It's the War
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I treat those who are good with goodness, And I also treat those who are not good with goodness. Thus goodness is attained. Tao Te Ching
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you Matthew 5:43-44
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Thanks for opening the door Dr. D
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Jay says : " I have already argued that fighting the tyrannies of Saddam, Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc. is part and parcel of what I believe progressivism is all about. "
So when are you enlisting, Jay ?Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Kaw Valley Kid and others too Click here to make tiny URLs. Click here to learn about HTML. It is easy . Questions? Please ask.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Only some HTML is allowed on this site: italics, bold, block quotes (the boxes) and hyperlinks.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Pick of the Litter mentioned it and I will provide the scriptural reference. From Genesis chapter 1 .... And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth ....... and, behold, it was very good.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Four legs good. Two legs bad. Four legs good. Two legs bad.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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I live in British Columbia, Canada. Marijuana is very common here. I think that alcohol is more harmful, on any level, than marijuana. I enjoy both every now and then. Kaw Valley Kid mentioned the BC Marijauna Party. Hate to break it to you KVK but those guys are mostly morons. One of their most vocal members is running for political office here (again). He got only a handful of votes last time and will do no better this time. Most people who use marijuana will not vote for him because he is a one trick pony. When the BC Marijauna …
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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The user simply needs to be informed and responsible I agree. Best comment yet. I eat bacon and eggs everyday. Harmful but beneficial. Beneficial but harmful. I enjoy bacon and eggs. I enjoy a beer and a puff too.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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ILLUSION We don't always see what we think we see.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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My first altered state was when my parents taught me to spin in a circle until I was dizzy and fell down. It was for laughs then. I still do it now. Spinning and otherwise. For laughs and ???
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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There will be peace in the valley for me, some day There will be peace in the valley for me, oh Lord I pray There'll be no sadness, no sorrow No trouble, trouble I see There will be peace in the valley for me, for me
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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America : Wake up and smell the Astroglide. Would that have been a better title? More inclusive.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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"Rabbit, do you still expect Scorp to actually be on topic? That is a rarity when it happens. Somehow though I suspect he will mention that communists killed more people than fascists and that they sexually exploited more people." Neruda, that was a good one. Very witty. You should warn us next time because I nearly spat a mouthful of coffee all over the monitor. Thanks, best laugh all day, so far. Neruda to AnarchoSozi : "it is not fruitful to bash the U.S. as a whole on this account" Very true. I always try to remember to say mostly …
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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I am a simple country boy. Traditional would be a good word to describe me. I am dismayed and disgusted all day long when seeing the blatant sexuality and hypocrisy about sexuality. It is everywhere. Glorified or Denounced or Ignored. The most natural thing we are has been reduced to : A plastic blow up sex doll. A plastic phallus with batteries. A picture of flesh to be lusted after. A piece of flesh to be bought and sold. Perversions to be accepted as the way it is. Very sad.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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The most natural thing we are has been reduced to : A duty to be performed. A delusion to be reenforced A dereliction of duty for the results.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Neruda, An "expression of personal belief" mostly........ People will do what they will but I find some/much of it plastic delusions of who we really are. A desire that people would maybe see past the plastic delusions .... and waxing poetic. "victims?" ........ We all are. "do you .. believe .. the quality of ... anyone ... is anchored somehow in their choice to engage or not engage in any of these or other types of sexual conduct?" .........No, not at all. We are all in the same boat. I find there are very few …
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Wolf ... same answer.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Loaded phrase. Yes sir. Point it where you will.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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And remember : When you point at someone that three of your fingers point back at yourself.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Messages? Messages! We don't need no stinking messages. Just kidding! But here is a wise message that is worthy of repetition : "Conservatives love to justify the American occupation of the Middle East with fervent appeals to the modernizing influence of Western civilization, as if the slaughter of thousands of socially provincial Iraquis is an acceptable exchange for the abolition of the burkha. Of course, no one seems to recognize that pornography is the veil of Western civilization. Major Major, thank you. I am still thinking about your input/ouput comment. Please feel free to elaborate, maybe with an example. …
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Yeah - thanks jsquire. Back to the topic. I grew up on a small family farm. One of the joys I got from growing up on a farm was that from a very young age I saw the sex culture of animals acted out on a daily basis. To me, then, it was what animals, and people too, did when they wanted to have babies. I got bussed into school in the city and I knew more about sex than the city kids did. I am grown now and have experienced much ... but am …
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Wolf I was relating my experience and the understanding I had when I was a child. Sorry for the confusion. My understanding today is somewhat different. Please explain what you mean when you say : I don’t think most animals have the connection between sex and reproduction you ascibe to them.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Nice pun, Wolf. Animals mate from instinct yes. Not sure if they have the conception of sex leading to offspring or not. Birds protect their eggs before they hatch. Instinctive forecasting of the future? A topic for another day. Some people seem to have forgotten that sex leads to offspring. Or maybe they are just woefully irresponsible.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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I am inclined to agree that animals do share some of our human characteristics too. Bonobo chimpanzees do it for fun and dolphins too. Or at least they seem to. I think it is possible that animals know that when they have sex they will soon have babies. My dog knows when I plan on taking her for a walk even before I tell her we are going for a walk. Still trying to figure out how she knows. Dr. Dolittle where are you ?
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Yes Veronica, please tell us more.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Maybe she does and just doesn't know it?
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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nice poem Rabbit. here is mine ... out and about electrons pout in and out gremlins rout ... apologies to poets everywhere and ITT for wasting their electrons.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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Thanks Liz ... I had not but I have now ... thanks to you.
Posted to Babes in BushWorld
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It is Sylvester the Cat who says "Sufferin' Succotash".
Posted to How the Right Has Won
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ahh yes .... I remember Paradise. Everyone should get back to the Garden . temporal demise .... Th-Th-That's All Folks!
Posted to How the Right Has Won
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I understand what Major Major is saying and want him to say more. Please.
Posted to How the Right Has Won
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Who's site : Our site, your site, my site. One site, two site, red site, blue site. Isn't this like fleas arguing about who owns the dog they live on?
Posted to How the Right Has Won
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Hello ejonsmith. Thank you and well come.
Posted to See No Evil
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Anarcho-Sozi, Apology not required but accepted for mentioning the two countries in the same breath . Canada and the USA are next door neighbours but they are indeed quite different nations . The differences are good. I have business dealings with Americans every day. Mostly from down south in Georgia. Good people. Most of them think that Canadians talk too fast. Since we are trading cultural stories I will share a bit of mine. Anarcho-Sozi, I wanted to share this with you on the Fundamental History Lesson thread but never got the chance. So I share it now. My …
Posted to See No Evil
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Excellent point Siskiyouz. The boy who cried wolf about a wolf that wasn't there is a good analogy.
Posted to The Subject Supposed to Loot and Rape
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Metrosocial says : Woman/Bee Anecdote : "This anecdote is generally told pejoratively, meant to expose the quackeries and pretensions of psychoanalytic practice. However, it raises an interesting question: why does this woman presumably initiate and continue her treatment, rather than, say, calling an exterminator? Seriously, why? ..... Regardless of the “factual” presence or absence of swarming bees—the specific content of phobia—our analysand is marked by a structural ill. She cannot tell what that ill is; but, for the moment, the bees seem to inhabit that position, seem to be the cause of it all. But she, at least, goes to …
Posted to The Subject Supposed to Loot and Rape
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We are still uncomfortable with the idea that the people from next door, the next village and the next country are the same as ourselves. We see them, not us. Some see rivals, not equals. Others see enemies, not friends. The difference is not in the person judged, but in the the person judging. When, instead of calling them rivals or enemies, we can call them our equal or friend it is not them that have changed for the better, it is us .
Posted to The Subject Supposed to Loot and Rape
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As has been said many times before: " We have met the enemy. The enemy is us. "
Posted to The Subject Supposed to Loot and Rape
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Good call, GrayArea. Good article, Major Major.
Posted to The Subject Supposed to Loot and Rape
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Work hard, reminded me of Aesop's " The Ant and the Grasshopper " and I found this from the Progress Report : http://www.progress.org/archive/antgrass.htm The Ant and the Grasshopper Three Versions! You probably know a version of the story somewhat like this: The Ant works hard in the heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The Grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the Ant is warm and well fed. The Grasshopper has no food or shelter so he either dies out in the cold, or …
Posted to Katrina, Cosby and Class Divisions
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Vostok, "The Ant and the Grasshopper" fable variations I posted are not my opinions. I provided the source of those opinions. I did not endorse the variations. I put them forward for discussion. But ......the fable stands amended once again. I like your ending too. Maybe an even better ending would be the Ant happily sharing with the Grasshopper. And should their positions ever be reversed, the Grasshopper happily sharing with the Ant. I trust you will point out the lessons I miss out of the goodness of your heart as I would do for you. I am learning lessons all …
Posted to Katrina, Cosby and Class Divisions
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Here is another fable with an important lesson The Little Red Hen One day as the Little Red Hen was scratching in a field, she found a grain of wheat. "This wheat should be planted," she said. "Who will plant this grain of wheat?" "Not I," said the Duck. "Not I," said the Cat. "Not I," said the Dog. "Then I will," said the Little Red Hen. And she did. Soon the wheat grew to be tall and yellow. "The wheat is ripe," said the Little Red Hen. "Who will cut the wheat?" "Not I," said the Duck. "Not I," said …
Posted to Katrina, Cosby and Class Divisions
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Vostok, Very true. See .. another lesson that we have shared . Thank you.
Posted to Katrina, Cosby and Class Divisions
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quack quack I am back. But what happened to the Duck?
Posted to Katrina, Cosby and Class Divisions
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Curious Dave wants to know.
Posted to Katrina, Cosby and Class Divisions
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's ok Jay. I sometimes get accused of feeding trolls or even being a troll lover . And rightly so for I do and I am. Be thankful in all things.
Posted to Katrina, Cosby and Class Divisions
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“It used to be the politicians promised to deliver us our dreams. Now they promise to deliver us from our nightmares.” Chuck, thanks for linking the reference to "The Power of Nightmares". I was not sure where I remembered the phrase from and am glad that you did. Politics of fear is indeed being used against us. Always has been. Carrot and the stick. It is important to not dismiss the sheep and they do need those who are genuinely trying to be good shepherds. It is a simple fact that some people are intellectually superior. How they choose to use …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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" But what seperates those who question the media from those who don’t? Perhaps there is a reason that education is talking point that nobody really wants to reform. Critical thinking does not make for good sheep. " Neruda, education does not necessarily a critically thinking sheep make. It can help certainly, but there are plenty of smart people who do a "crimestop" when they find themselves faced with the realization that their governments are not looking after the people's best interests because that realization would be a "thoughtcrime".
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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" So what is the difference between the sheep and those who question the news? " Fear and ignorance can separate those who question from those who don't. Education may be able to dispel fear and ignorance. Fear and ignorance can dispel an education. It used to be the politicians promised to deliver us our dreams. Now they promise to deliver us from our nightmares.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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" This seems far too simplistic to me. As a parent, i often use fear to “keep the sheep” in line. Look both ways when you cross, don’t do drugs, etc etc. " Wolf, But you do it out of love for your sheep. You explain to your sheep why they should do as you instruct them to. You tell them of the possible consequences of their actions but it is done out of love. Wouldn't you rather your sheep obey out of love for you than out of fear of you? Wouldn't you rather your sheep obey your just laws …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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"Men think in herds, go mad in herds, but recover their senses one by one." Charles Mackay
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Luminous Beauty linked this on another thread and it is apt for this thread as well. Some difficult questions, no fence to sit on. Polarizing but effective. Avoid knee jerk reactions unless knee jerk reactions are the reactions you actually have. hehe. I am usually skeptical / disdainful of "questionnaires" but this one, for me, was thoughtful and accurate, I approved of where it brought me: I am sitting next to Ghandi. David's political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85 I would be interested in other people's results. Please remember there is no right or wrong result. Just different …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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I will be who I will be.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Exactly, pigeon holing (pun intended raven) aside it was interesting. People tend to get stuck on " either/or ". It is a false contradiction. It only serves to make true believers on either side close their eyes to more nuanced possiblities.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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.. or open their eyes to more nuanced possibilities.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Whattheheck and Jay, others too, "score points" with me by being here and being outnumbered. Diversity of opinion helps the debate. All are welcome, or should be. Maybe some well spoken "lefties" should go vist some "rightie" sites? I think that whattheck and Jays scores are probably accurate too. Jay doesn't seem too put off by his score. Correct me if I am wrong Jay. Other than being middle of the road. Nothing wrong with that. Whattheheck, do you maybe just not like sitting next to the rest of us when you thought you would be in another room? It's ok, …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Two of us. Two of us. Two of us. All of us. All of us. All of us.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Here are the results so far Very interesting. Order based on the sum of the two numbers : Jay Economic Left/Right: -1.07 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.98 WTH Economic Left/Right: -3.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.10 Rabbit Economic Left/Right: -3.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.28 Neruda Economic Left/Right: -2.38 Social Libertatian/Authoritatian: -5.23 David Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85 Whit Economic Left/Right: -7.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.08 Raven Economic Left/Right: -5.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.36 Luminous Bty Economic Left/Right: -7 Social Libertatian/Authoritatian: -7
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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I thought the test was fairly accurate. More good than not good. 10 points would be a bit too much spread. 5 points would allow for a fence to sit on. Strong agree, agree, no opinion or undecided, disagree, strongly disagree. But I liked that the questions demanded commitment to your answer. Too may people sit on fences for the wrong reasons. What I found interesting was how those of us who took part were all in the same quadrant. Not so different after all it seems. In general at least. Some different opinions on specific issues. But mostly of an …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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If beliefs change the believerhas changed.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Jay, Quoting from your blog, I like the name " sufrensucatash " by the way. You describe yourself : " I am: progressive, not a wild-eyed Progressive; liberal, but shun liberals and Liberals; conservative, but some Conservatives worry me; libertarian who won't privatize first responders. I am: an idealist, but no utopian; a pragmatist, but no Machiavellian. I am a realist who dreams. " It is good to see that you will admit to a variety of labels for your variety of views. It is good to see that you are an idealist and a realist. I like ideals as …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Always answer "Strongly" strategy results : Economic Left/Right: -6.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.31 Moved little further left economic. Moved much further libertarian. Here are my original results : Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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I encourage everyone to read the Political Compass FAQ (frequently asked questions). "But it's important to realise that this isn't a survey, and these aren't questions. They're propositions - an altogether different proposition. To question the logic of individual ones that irritate you is to miss the point. Some propositions are extreme, and some are more moderate."
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Jay, Come on. Maybe I am missing the point too. Questions always good. Acussations not so much so. How silly of me ...
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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"How silly of me ... " Or missing your point? We all answered the same questions. Each to their own self. I don't consider those that have different answers a problem or my enemy.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Or if they are a problem or an enemy, real or perceived : I do not or try not to treat them any differently than I would treat a solution or my friend.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Hello Skullker Thanks for the clarity. I agree. UP THE REVOLUTION !!
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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We have the same situation in Canada. Our main parties have long since sold their souls, whether they know it or not. Even our third part show signs of slavery to elitist interests. There are fourth and fifth parties on the horizon here in Canada. They are gaining support. Hopefully they remain true to their ideals and resist the temptations for corruption that power brings.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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For clarity : My last post was directed at Skullker, as a continuation of my first response.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Whattheheck and Rabbit, Agreed. Political Correctness is like a fence to sit on or play on.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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... and that too is why I agree, in reference to Political Compass results : Strongly agree and agree, and the converse, are a little like equivocal, nuanced hedges. Cutting both ways of course. I would be happy with a YES/AGREE or NO/DISAGREE response to the Political Compass experiment
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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" Now Rabbit see’s you are all answering ‘strongly’ as if that is helping. NO NO NO " " It is very clear to Rabbit that the original scores are immensely telling. " Yes, the original scores were telling and so are the revised scores. It has created an individual spectrum. Put both scores on the same graph and you see an indication of a spectrum of possible positions. It is telling to look at the size of the spectrum and how they relate to the economic and political scales. What I saw in my two scores was an almost unchanged …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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I think it does help. Yes yes yes. My Personal Political Compass becomes my Personal Political Spectrum. After all you use a compass to get from A to B ... and maybe C.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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There is a difference between agree and strongly agree. It is still as YES.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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YES is YES. Agree = Yes Strongly agree = Yes The answer to a given proposition has not changed from YES to NO. Or vice versa. The variation in nuance from mild agreement to strong agreement of those YES or NO answers is interesting and I think it is valid. The original results are the truest results ... at least until there are new results. When taking the test the second time anwering "strong" always, on several questions I was not sure what my original response had been. I knew that my answer had been YES or NO but was unsure …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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from the FAQ at Political Compass : Question : "Respondents are going to feel under pressure to be politically correct." Answer : " Not really, because we've assured them that not only are their identities unknown, but their responses totally unrecorded. So the only actual pressure will come from themselves. We've found that a lot of people aren't comfortable with the first result, so they go through the propositions again, changing some of their earlier responses. It's a bit like an overweight person stepping back on the scales after removing their shoes. "
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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I am not sure if that supports my position or not. hehe Just throwing it out there. To bring this Political Compass cogent tangent (nice paradox there) back to the topic of the Partisan War Syndrome : Let's hope that people and politcians who support the war, or think they supported the war, change their answer from YES to NO.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Back to the Political Compass test, Rabbit says : You get one chance and unless you answered dishonestly the first time, this is IT. Everything after is Tainted Just to clarify : Yes to No would be dishonest. But even dishonest can become honest after regret. Honest can become dishonest too. Just to repeat : A strong Yes and a mild Yes are still both Yes. same goes for No. Tainted yes, but I am tainted all the time, it never stops. I don't exist in a vacuum.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Rabbit says : " BTW Monk.....Rabbit didn’t mean to be UPPITY even if it sounded so, he knows you are genuine in desire to find middle ground always, it is just that here you are removing the middle ground to allow someone to adjust their results to better attend their pre-concieved notions about the world." I know. Your desire is genuine too. Seeing the difference between mild and strong variation of what are still Yes and No answers helps one understand the middle where they actually standing and which direction they may move. Yes? Maybe it is adjusting not to meet …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Rabbit, Have you never reconsidered? Have you never agreed with a proposition and upon a better understanding of that proposition agreed more strongly? Or less strongly? Have you never been wrong? Generalities maybe. How is this for specific? Are "agree" and "strongly agree" on the same side of the fence?
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Rabbit, When we first started criticizing and people, you included, suggested that a wider choice of possible responses might be better. Political Compass FAQ : " In some cases none of the four possible responses reflected my attitude. " One expert in the field suggested that we restrict the responses to simply 'agree' and 'disagree'. But how many do you need? Ten? Twenty? If you choose the one that most nearly reflects your feeling, you'll get an accurate reading...even if it niggles. " The "niggling" is there. We are talking about people. Not chemical reactions in a test tube. By taking …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Please understand that I too think the original results are the most accurate. The end result is something of a median or average based on the individually weighted propositions and responses. But there is room for movement based on the degree of conviction given to the agree or disagree positions on the individual propositions. The same " degree of conviction/room for movement " is available for study in the revised results. I find that movement interesting and retesting illustrates it. Same side of the Agree/Disagree fence and only nearer or farther from it. Or is it that the fence has moved? …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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And it is not criticism of the test either. It is enthusiasm for the test. Taking the test and seeing what it can teach one about oneself. It is revealing. It is an opportunity for learning or at least understanding and maybe enlightenment.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Of oneself and others too. Better try to understand yourself before you try to understand others.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Rabbit, I will repeat myself. I do not disagree with my original resluts. The results are accurate. I am not / was not criticizing the test or the propositions of the test. I do not deny that second or third results can be deliberately altered. The results can be altered by dishonest methods or honest methods. I altered my results by the adjusting the degree of conviction, ie. mild or strong, and was still HONEST to my answers in respect to Agree or Disagree. Do you see what I am saying? I cannot speak for the others who retested. Ask them …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Luminous Beauty, Good to see you here on this thread. Do you think that your recent results invalidate your previous results? Or are both possibly valid and worthy of consideration? Do you think the difference between "strongly agree" and "agree" is the degree of conviction. Niggling and wriggling room. And that a change in degree of conviction is not dishonest? Do you think that a simpler, cruder test with only "agree" or "disagree" is a valid option and worthy of consideration? Do people change? I think they can and do. Some for the better and some not.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Hi Luminous Beauty I don't like the simpler cruder test you linked either. They call the test " The World's Smallest Political Quiz " and they are not exaggerating. Too simple and crude. Thanks for your answers, as always, they were illuminating. One of your answers had a thought that started me thinking on another tangent. I will think about it today and post my thoughts later. Thank you again.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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" Or a psychologist " Maybe we all need to take some ink blot tests too !?
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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This will be a three part post for clarity .... Part One .... People do change. We do have free will. Rabbit, I know you were mainly directing your words "towards the reluctant brides" . And I am thankful for the opportunity to defend my position .... and their's too, if it happens to be mine. Uppity and Irritated. All is always forgiven. Please forgive me. But your words, some of them, were for me too. Here is an example that struck me : Rabbit says: "He still cannot accept the implication that dishonesty is necessarily only changing from …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Part Two ..... People do change. We do have free will. More on the matter : I ask Luminous Beauty : Do you think the difference between “strongly agree” and “agree” is the degree of conviction. Niggling and wriggling room. And that a change in degree of conviction is not dishonest? Luminous Beauty says : "Yes. As long as the change of conviction is honest and not just an attempt to rig the results. One can honestly change one’s view from agree to disagree, too. At least I would hope so. I think jiggling the results can be an honest …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Part Three ..... People do change. We do have free will. People do change. Sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. Defending people who seek better change for themselves. Defending people who seek better change for others. I would hope that if someone was wrong about something that those who are right about that something would be gracious enough to allow those who were wrong to join the right position. Would those that are right tell those who were wrong they must remain wrong.? Sorry, change is not allowed? Sorry, carry on being ignorant and/or deluded? Where is the free will? …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Whew, that is a lot of comment for me... and only one HTML mistake. I am learning. Sorry if it went off onto a free will tangent but .. I see people afraid to change. Afraid of the possibilty. I see people who don't think it is possible for others to change. So I went on a bit of a rant. And hopefully everyone changes for the better. I Will Be Who I Will To Be.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Yes Rabbit, Life in general. That is why the Trilogy on Four Parts. 2 parts this, 1 part that, and 1 part ?? I acknowledged the tangent of the rant. I am not sure if it was out of context? If it was for you I apologize again. My words were mostly facetious but serious as well. As much to you as to others. Your words provided the opportunity for it. I am glad that you and I know people can change. We have illustrated it for them. Luminous Beauty, I read your subsequent posts and hope you read my previous …
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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"Luminous Beauty also specifically stated that any changes on a second go are for him (OK the bald, old guy got me..), were very small and the implication at least is that there should be no appreciable difference from one go to the next." Yes Rabbit, The second go at HONEST results . Please do not forget that as I have said my second resluts were an experimant. The experiment being answering "Strongly Agree" or "Strongly Agree". I hope that if anyone is changing their HONEST RESULTS that it is that ... HONEST.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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Luminous Beauty, Do I owe you an aplogy for my possible impertinence when I dragged you into the discussion Rabbit and I were having?
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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"You are a useful foil to hone my infant writing skills.." ... and sharpen your wit too. Both of you. Anyone who can make me laugh scores points with me. Thank you all.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer. Last call for comments here : Radioactive Wounds of War. Attention all War Mongers and Attention all Peace Lovers and Attention all Those Who Are On The Fence : The linked thread is soon to be shut down. Comment while you still can. The link is to the second last page (for now) to allow for some context to recent developments.
Posted to Partisan War Syndrome
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tyrrhen, I thought I recognized your accent as Canadian, eh.
Posted to The Real Case for Israel
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Luminous Beauty who is so Gloriously Bright, Thanks for the great story : Gift Of Insults . Will be saving that one to the hard drive. Edithann, You are a hero. Keep up the good work here.The Turdbungler is just stuck to your shoe. But don't worry, shit washes off. Tyrrhen, Thanks for the vocabulary lessons.
Posted to The Real Case for Israel
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You steal shit? You are a shit stealer? You are the filthy one. You mock yourself.
Posted to The Real Case for Israel
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Johnny says, BECAUSE the rights of Jews and Arabs are equal, both parties resorted to WAR to settle the dispute. The Arabs lost, but still insist on making the rules. So if the Russians or the Chinese, alone or in an alliance with one another, decide to settle their differences with the USA in a war, and they win, will you emigrate to Canada or Europe? Or start learning to speak Russian or Mandarin? Or convert to the Russian Orthodox Church or become a Taoist or a Buddhist or an athiest? Or would you still want to make your own rules? …
Posted to The Real Case for Israel
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We have seen the enemy and it is us.
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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Oingo Boingo - Nothing to Fear (But Fear Itself) Hey neighbor let me give you some advice The russians are about to pulverize us In our sleep tonight That is if the crazy arabs Or the riots don't get us first And the fire will rain down from the sky The fire will rain down from the sky People will die--people will die People will die--people will die But go ahead sleep tight in your beds Remember what the wise man said Chorus There's nothing to fear nothing to fear There's nothing to fear nothing to fear There's nothing to fear …
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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Jay says, " When the American religious right stages a violent brown-shirt putsch, I’ll change my tune. " Jay, isn't it too late then?
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Coming soon to a town near you or a town far away. What is the difference?
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And it is not the "American religious right" or anyone other convenient label, it is the "thugs" who have usurped their ideals and pander to anyone as it serves their thuggish and selfish agenda.
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Jay you say, " to condemn one man’s opinion and right to say it because he is an idiot, is one of the worst forms of Tyranny. " Very well said. Look who had the same idea. " The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within. " Mahatma Ghandi
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" In truth, there is no force on earth that can effectively forbid voluntary prayer as it is the silent act of an individual’s inner thought. " - luminous beauty Hallelujah and Amen
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Jay, I agree with Kuya, Neruda, and Luminous Beauty and Rabbit too. But I hope this helps you feel less alone. I wish that there was no murder and violence. But there is and always will be. In this world at least. I wish there was no rape, no unwanted pregancy and no abortion too. But there is and always will be. This world, again. I hope for a better world here and now and believe in a better world for the next We (should) have universal laws, and we (should) have personal morals that tell what is right and wrong. …
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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Not defending what Scott said. I am not sure what Scott said. But I would like to comment about this quote : Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..” When Hitler said this he was either deluding himself or lying to others. Maybe both somehow. If Hitler was truly doing the "work of the Lord" he would be doing this commandment of the Lord : " A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love …
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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Neruda, " This aspect of Christianity is best of it and yet it is the voices of fire and brimstone that dominate the current conversation. " Exactly, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the voices you refer to. Letting my little light shine. " If you truly love others and Jesus loved then you don’t try to exclude them from full participation and you don’t legislate moral choices for them. " Exactly, I am trying to include their participation and setting a good example for them. What else can I do? Beat them over the head with their …
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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or conversely .. Exactly, I am trying to include their participation and setting a good example for them. What else can I do? Beat them over the head with __________? Then I have become like them. .. fair is fair. Any good words to fill in the blank? Not trying to play both sides. More like playing another side.
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"viewpoint discrimination" Scott said, " Jay, Thank you for patiently explaining to others that “viewpoint discrimination” against Christians endangers everyone’s freedom." Discrimination against anyone endangers everyone's freedom. It goes both ways. ... a little joke now : Viewpoints ?? Viewpoints !! We don't need no stinkin' viewpoints !!
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Neruda, You just said " What’s more frustrating is seeing religion used to justify that opression. " Correct, "used" in that selfish men, fascists, have subverted religion's ideals to justify attacking the ideals of others. But there are some honest men trying to reclaim true ideals we all have in common. On October 10, 2005 at 5:39 PM ... You also included these signs of fascism ..... " a reliance on fear and terror as weapons of persuasions; gearing up the war machine; a government propoganda machine " and " using the pulpit to endorse candidates and collect signatures for petitions …
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Good point on the tax free privileges. Aren't there some non profit orginizations on the "left" that enjoy tax free privileges too, ones that might endorse candidates or collect signatures for signing. Anyone from the "right" know of any? Enough. Don't like playing one side against the other. We are all on the same side. Or should be. Besides, a non profit church that uses it's resources to feed and shelter the poor and homeless is very different than TV evangelist who lives a life of luxury and vice. The selfish oppressors are anyone that uses universal ideals to deny the …
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And I don't think that churches or mosques or synangogues are necessarily right or left. I have never heard a pulpit endorsement at any church I have been to. Are all the people in churches or mosques or synangogues all robots marching in unison to whatever the fallible guy behind the pulpits tell them? They should not be.
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Definitely enjoying these exchanges. But not for the sake of confrontation. For better understanding of the issues all around.
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Verbal wrestling, as you say, is better than name calling, discrimination, oppression or worse. How about you? Are you enjoying these exchanges? Learning anything? I sure am.
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Right on. We are taking the masks off.
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"Kaninchen" - Ich liebe es. Danke Anarcho-Sozi. Luminous Beauty - Kannst du Deutsch? .. or are you just enjoying the new name for Rabbit as much as I am?
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Luminous Beauty - Thanks for the Little Pony Story. It made me laugh. The comments even more so. .. and I think that everyone has some sort of sense of humour (and irony). Some can see it in others, some themselves too.
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RE : http://www.politicalcompass.org/ I am sitting next to Ghandi. Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85 Thanks Luminous Beauty. It was cool.
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Thomas Hobbes - Leviathan "solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short" Thank God.
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.. but I try to be neighborly, generous, happy, selfless, and long .. You can't always get what you want. Sometimes you do. Thank God.
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The more people I meet the more I like my dog.
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" The love of liberty is the love of others; the love of power is the love of ourselves." - William Hazlitt (thank you LB)
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Chopper, It is nice to find someone I can teach computer stuff to. It will be the blind leading the more blind. The links are not active hyperlinks. You have to put them in the address bar of your browser. But you don't have to write them down. This method lets you copy and paste any text. Using your mouse, left click at the beginning of the link/text. Hold (keep pressing) the left click there. Holding the left click and move the cursor/pointer over the link and let the left click go (stop pressing) when the link is highlighted. Now right …
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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Rabbit, active hyper links in HTML do deem to be allowed on ITT. Check out Jay's post at : Posted by Jay Cline on October 20, 2005 at 11:03 AM You can click the word "blog" as an active link.
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Partisan War Syndrome thread Posted by Jay Cline on October 20, 2005 at 11:03 AM
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.. and now I see from your previous post on the last page you saw it too. Is it not HTML.? Not allowed only for urls? Jay? What mad skills are you using there?
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Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..” When Hitler said this and the quote Whit provided above he was either deluding himself or lying to others. Maybe both somehow. If Hitler was truly doing the “work of the Lord” he would be doing this commandment of the Lord : “ A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this …
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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" given that religion has been the source or justification for so many wars and so much persecution over the course of history." False justification. False if the true message is understood. The judgementalism, in the Bible, you mention is not necessarily endorsed and is even denounced. " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;That ye may be the children …
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‘But what does Christian “religion” have to do with him, who said, “He who would save his life, will lose it.” Whit, I know what you are saying. It pains me when I see evil men hijacking good ideals for evil purposes. Go to the second page of this thread and read the back and forth when Neruda and I first discussed this hypocricy. I am trying to reclaim those ideals, maybe hopeless, but to lose is gain. Letting my little light shine. I Am who I Am. I Will Be who I Will Be. I Will Be who I …
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I love you all. Rabbit, Neruda, Whit, Eadora, Kuya, Whattheheck, Jay even Scorpy and Natalie too. I love you all. Whit, it is always the right time and place for love. Luminous Beauty who is so Gloriously Bright, Ich liebe dich am allermeisten. Thank you for the wish of fruitfulness. It is a hard row to cultivate. Lots of tares to sort through for the wheat but worth the effort.
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Even the SCORP? Yes, even the Scorp. Scorp needs love too.. thus saith the Monk.
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" The Scorp needs the stick. " Spare the rod, spoil the child. But remember the story of the prodigal son.
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Rabbit, The LINK I provided for the story of the prodigal son is actually a comparison piece of the Buddhist parallel with the Christain story. Take from it what you will. Ears to hear and eyes to see.
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Totally off topic .... sorry .... Luminous Beauty, Good job on learning a little HTML. It is useful. I have a question for you. Scorp hinted at it, a little crudely. Are you a boy or a girl? I am sure that someone with your understanding will know why I ask this : to better understand you and myself too. When I come across people with possibly genderless "user names" I always find myself thinking of these ambiguous ones as; Girl or Boy. My judgement based on their words. Further from their words; I define them as Old or Young ... …
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Back on topic ... or supporting the debate about the topic ...... More than ever, I am enjoying these discussions. I see everyone making a contribution. Salt for the stew. Or pepper. Everyone stirring.
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" It is only with the salt of your guys contrarian skepticism that the stew of these conversations achieves its rich hearty flavor. " - Luminous Beauty
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Contrarians ... maybe a new political party for cynics?
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... what a nice paradox ... The other side of the spectrum could call us the same.
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Luminous Beauty, You and I are brothers then. No dismay here. Even better. Less complicated, mostly. Waiting for more clever clues to fill in the rest of the mystery. Oh, Sweet mystery of life.
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We are still uncomfortable with the idea that the people from next door, the next village and the next country are the same as ourselves. We see them, not us. Some see rivals, not equals. Others see enemies, not friends. The difference is not in the person judged, but in the the person judging. When, instead of calling them rivals or enemies, we can call them our equal or friend it is not them that have changed for the better, it is us.
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Once again proving the enemy is ourselves.
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Paradox being the word of the day ... please read ... this.
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"That’s going on the fridge." You honor me. Your words are written on my heart.
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Humble humor.
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Luminous Beauty, please (re)post a link to the Hayek essay. I know you posted it in full, maybe on the God Squad thread, but a repost, just a link, would be easier than going looking for it. Thanks.
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" You know, I really need to make it more clear when I’m being facetious. " Me too. Sometimes we take ourselves and others too seriously.
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"EXPECT RESISTANCE : the future is not yet written." I like that very much. Thanks.
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I like cogency too. But tangents are fun. I like ice cream. But only the expensive Haagen-Dazs. So I eat it once in a blue moon. I used to drive an old Mazda hatchback. Until it exploded. It was a good horse to it's last day. I used to drive a VW Rabbit. Had two in succession, one gas, one diesel. Good cars. Now a Chev S10 pickup. No bumper stickers. Good truck. Gets me camping and fishing. When it goes to the junkyard in the sky I may consider walking .... or a motorcycle .... or an old 4 cylinder …
Posted to A Fundamental History Lesson
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Hi Liz Yes a reactionary song. From a long ways back. But the Russian still have nukes my dear. They may not have to use them though. America is mostly bankrupt too. Morally and otherwise America seems to ready to self destruct. I hope they don't. I happen to live next door.
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One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer. Last call for comments on : Radioactive Wounds of War. This thread is being shut down soon. Comment while you still can. The link is to the second last page (for now) to allow for some context to recent developments.
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That thread ... Radioactive Wounds of War ... not this thread where you are now.
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Scorp, You were funny with your one liner but Rabbit has a whole routine down. You got anything else, Scorp? This is better than the Comedy Channel. Thanks guys.
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Mr Vonnegut, Best wishes and thank you for everything.
Posted to Kurt Vonnegut's In These Times Opus
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Yeah, I have Indian friends (Eastern variety and American too) and they call me the "white guy" all the time. I don't see it as a slur against me. Some of these Indian friends are sports fans and root for the teams with " racial slur " names. Does that make them self-hating somehow? I come from a German heritage and it doesn't bother me when non-German people get dressed up in lederhosen and get drunk for Oktoberfest As whattheheck says ; terminal sillyness.
Posted to Accepting the Slurs
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eucliddave, Indeed, silliness, nothing to justify death and violence to be sure. Regarding the offender and offendee. Was I an offender?
Posted to Accepting the Slurs
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If so, it was not my intent. As you say, anecdotal and etymological. I do apologize if any offence was taken. Justified perhaps as I would take none from the same. And somehow saying that makes me feel like an offender. Again, apologies.
Posted to Accepting the Slurs
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I forgive you. I find there are very few crimes that others have committed that I have not committed in my own heart.
Posted to Accepting the Slurs
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Robin, by the way, not saying you committed any crimes. When my dark friends call me a light guy (metaphor, analogy, playing with words call it what you will) I recognize it as a facetious reminder of serious consequences of xenophobia. I accept their comments as anecdotal and etymological as most would. Or should. Actions count, but so do intentions. Yes, Katehla, stereotypes are harmful. It is important to recognize that stereotypes can be a two way street. Or a 360 degree street. Talking about it is the first step to doing somehting about it.
Posted to Accepting the Slurs
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Yo okhale Sheku Katehla, Thank you for your empathy and encouragement.
Posted to Accepting the Slurs
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whattheheck, Is the comment about " humility at the Standard is in short supply. " funny for its own sake or is it funny coming from In These Times because humility is in short supply everywhere? Funny either way I guess. hehe The people setting off bombs are responsible for the carnage they cause. Be they Iraqis, Americans, British or others. Mr. Bush says that he invaded Iraq to make it better (a generalization of the various justifications for the war) and I still see it getting worse.
Posted to Standard Issues
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whattheheck, You say " Instead, the media was allowed to define this as primarily a hunt for WMD.* To add to the problem, democracy for Iraq was made a goal. " With all due respect to you, when the media reported on the justifications for the war it was not a bunch of fantasies that the media concocted, it was a bunch of fantasies that the war party concocted. Some countries went along for the ride, and are bailing out now, but most, including several respected allies, did not and voiced their disapproval saying that an invasion was unwarranted and called …
Posted to Standard Issues
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.. and when I say war party please understand that I do not mean Republican or Democrat. Warmonger would have done just as well.
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Hi Whattheheck, Quoting you and Rabbit : Rabbit said : "There is no moral justification to attack Iran..." WTH said : "I beg to differ, strangely enough on moral grounds. If you are the biggest, strongest kid on the block you should watch out for the weaker and younger ones and protect them in any way possible." Whattheheck, I agree that the strong should help the weak. But I want to understand your moral justification for an attack on Iran better. So, with respect, and some elaboration, your opinion and justification of an attack on Iran would seem to be this, …
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But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5: 44-45
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"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me!" In those who harbor such thoughts hatred is not appeased. "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me!" In those who do not harbor such thoughts hatred is appeased. Hatreds never cease through hatred in this world; through love alone they cease. This is an eternal law. Buddhism : Dhammapada 3-5
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Kuya writes : "What if too few people want to do the right thing by each other, for whatever reason, and the law remains a bludgeon upon significant sectors of the nation, or fails to protect them properly? I’d be curious to read some of y’all’s responses." Oh Kuya. What if? To borrow a phrase ... " T'was ever thus and ever will be ".... at least in this world. Majority opinion or minority opinion does not make either opinion right. But at the same time both use their repsective position to bludgen one another. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't …
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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Just labels mostly. Put one on. Peel another off.
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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Sorry, "just labels" was cynical David there. I understand wanting to define oneself. Or others. Just borrowing the "semantics" arguement from Jay maybe. Aaarrrgghh. Just kidding, Jay.
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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" “Do you really think these people are religious?” Yes, but they are also hypocritical demagogues, as are most religious leaders. Their followers are in large part dupes. " Indeed. Here is what Jesus had to say on the matter : " You brood of vipers! How can you speak good things, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." Matthew 12:34
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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Rabbit and Salient You both make good points. Rabbit saying that " in our homogenised societies there is little enough to really distinguish the groups from one another " Very true. Most of the distinctions are superficial. The labels just words to identify with, accurately or completely or not. Salient's definitions of liberal and conservative and variations on the terms are useful to show some examples of some identifying the distinctions. Salient, you also said regarding theoretical US foreign policy that " It would be better than the arrogant, self-serving, meddling foreign policy that has made much of the world resent …
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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Here are a couple changes to clarify a muddy paragraph ... Very excellent distinction. But that foreign policy has been constant, mostly. There are few real differences between the foreign policy of liberals and conservatives, democrats and republicans, and all the variations. Their respective foreign policies are similar in many ways. Sometimes it seems like a good cop, bad cop routine run amok. Both bad, one more so. Even alternating roles.
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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whattheheck, Some might call your friends 200 employees deaths "collateral damage". The Pentagon uses "collateral damage" to describe similar deaths in Iraq. Sometimes they will say "unfortunate collateral damage" if the outrage requires it. My word for it is "murder".
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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whattheheck, (here is a repost, with clarifications in brackets) Some (NOT ME but others, maybe your perceived enemies of freedom) might (could,do) call your friends 200 (innocent) employees deaths “collateral damage” (admittedly ill-defined, but the playing with words and defintions was part of my point). The Pentagon (not me, the Pentagon and others too) uses “collateral damage” to describe similar deaths (of innocents) in Iraq. Sometimes they will say “unfortunate collateral damage” if the outrage (over especially large numbers of innocents) requires it. My word (interpretation of the defintion) for it is “murder”. ("there is no such thing as an accidental …
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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Read this for a "Glossary of Warmongering" http://www.counterpunch.org/rooij03132003.html
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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But I see that we have digressed from the topic.
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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.. digressing some more .. whattheheck, Here is some clarification of collateral damage: Collateral damage refers to unintended damage amidst intended damage. Any analysis of the concept quickly becomes complex. Traditionally, collateral damage is a result of weapon system malfunction, human error, desperation in the fog of war or because it was intended. In more recent warfare, it occurs when an adversary's strategy includes concealment among the civilian population. Any formal definition of collateral damage must be largely based on perception, condition and tolerance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_damage
Posted to Judging Harriet Miers
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" But during several of their court hearings, VitW repeatedly asked why humanitarian organizations were prosecuted while companies that broke sanctions for profit were not fined or penalized. " Corporate profits good. Humanitarian efforts baaad. I am shocked. Not. " A policy that leads to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children is criminal, " Let's see what Madeline Albright says : "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it." Former U.N. Ambassador Madeline Albright, responding to reporter Lesley Stahl as to whether the over half a million Iraqi …
Posted to Muzzled Voices
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Isn't babbling what one does when the muzzle is off?
Posted to Muzzled Voices
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Hello Scorp Glad you find me amusing because the feeling is mutual.
Posted to Muzzled Voices
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Eadora, I don't think they have that service avaiable here.
Posted to Muzzled Voices
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Computer gremlins always amuse me. Bad 'puter. Once upon a time, I was in the process of proof reading and wondering if I had more to say when the screen refreshed to the top of the article page. I scrolled down and there was my post, posted without being submitted. Be stern with your 'puter, Eadora. Tell it to play nice with the ITT 'puters.
Posted to Muzzled Voices
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Eadora, .. and I should have also said how happy I am that your post(s) made it through the wilderness. Three times is OK too. Much there worth repeating. hehe Jon B, Excellent posts. Politics, in my country as well, has become a predictable exercise in " tossing the rascals out ". Out with the old, in with the new. But the new is the same as the old : corrupt and selfish.
Posted to Muzzled Voices
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ZINGER - good one Rabbit. He's got you there Scorp.
Posted to Muzzled Voices
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In the town where I live the local school board has created " traditional public schools ". Sort of like public private schools. Students wear uniforms, stand up when an adult enters the room, and receive intruction in behavior and values. There are now waiting lists for enrollment at these "traditional schools". Now teaching children respect for their classmates and teachers is a good thing. But, rather than bringing the child to a school where these traditional values are taught, shouldn't we be bringing the traditional values to all schools and all children.
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Private schools, run by relgious societies, are numerous in my town. Mostly owing to the extremely conservative and traditional population in this area that demands them. Home schooling was very popular and still is but is declining as more private schools get built through the various religious societies, mostly German and Dutch churches. More recently the local School Board, after being taken over by more conservative types, has created " traditional public schools " as I described in a previous post. Part of the reason for making these traditional schools was to create schools that got the job of educating children …
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Nice to see civilized debate here. Please and pardon me. Gentle sarcasm. Keep it up.
Posted to All for One, None for All
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An observation about private schools. Here in Canada, private schools do receive some funding from the government. The rest of the budget is raised through tuition fees. The private school I went to for a few years in high school was very proud to point out that the per student budget at the private school was less than the per student budget at a public school. Despite having less money per student at the private school they had students with better grades, better facilites and equipment while still paying the teachers what they would earn teaching at a public school. …
Posted to All for One, None for All
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GrayArea writes : " As it is, schools with high proportion of minority and underprivileged students ‘fail’ at a much higher rate. You could either decide that this is because of some inherent inferiority, or that they system is not equipped to handle the extra expense of educating them. It is also a valid hypothesis at least, that performance in school is enhanced by a stable economic situation at home. Or you could decide this is because of the circumstances the students are in, i.e. underprivileged. Not inferiority. Just the deck stacked against them. Plenty of very successful people have come …
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Had to jump in with this : When I was a little kid I walked, through the snow , in the winter at least, to a bus stop. The first few years with my mother, other kids from nearby and their mothers too. When I got older and had the good sense to safely ride a bicycle and had moved within bicycle distance, from the farm to the city, my parents allowed me to ride a bicycle to school or I walked. I could count on my fingers and toes the number of rides in cars I got to school. When …
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Kids definitely need more discipline. More at home, more at school and maybe most of all, more self discipline. There are teachers who find themselves in the position of babysitters or prison wardens as opposed to real teachers. Disillusionment can lead to apathy.
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Reading through the thread again and this popped up from the memory banks in my brain so I decided to share it. Learning is finding out what you already know. Doing is demonstrating that you know it. Teaching is reminding others that they know just as well as you.
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Volunteering is where it is at. Be the change you want to see. I have been involved with a work experience program in my local school district and it is rewarding all around.
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Once again I will make this point. I went to a private school for a few years. Compared to public schools this private school was proud to say it operated on a lower dollar budget per student and yet provided better education for the students, better facilities and equipment, and comparable salaries for teachers. Now they were not doing it for profit although they did save a little each year as a contingency/future plans fund. My concerns with "for profit schools" would be ensuring that education, facilites and teacher salaries and qualifications would not be compromised by the drive for profit. …
Posted to All for One, None for All
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Turn off the TV ??
Posted to Hook, Line and Suckers
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fatherof2 writes : " sadition is illegal " Sedition is typically a subvert act. What these families are doing is overt. Not sedition by a reasonable definition. Some might level a (false) charge of treason against members of the military or their families. The military oath taken at the time of induction reads: "I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United …
Posted to Witnesses to War
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worth repeating : " military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ. " An obligation to disobey UNLAWFUL orders. Just because they may say that the order is lawful does not make it so.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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I said " Extremists of all stripes, sizes and shapes are the enemy. " But I DO NOT advocate getting that enemy up against the wall and shooting them either. Just to be clear.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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wolf, Right. Extremists who use twisted ideals to justify violence and force to spread their ideology against the rights of others are the bad guys. Good to see you are catching on.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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So you are against the war now too?
Posted to Witnesses to War
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And before you point at the others before looking at yourself. The " eye for an eye " has gone on long enough. A better way has been revealed. These days it seems that some want to poke out other's eyes before they, maybe, might, get poked and the cycle starts anew. Soon everyone is blind. Open your eyes while you still have them.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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The better way being : Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do that honestly. Do Not twist the "doing" to suit only your own selfish perceptions and purposes. Defending yourself from the real attack of a real enemy doing you real harm. OK? As a last resort.? Define defending, attack, enemy and harm? Do Not attack pre-emptively, calling it defensive, an enemy, real or perceived and/or portrayed as real or perceived as real, who may, might, one day, be planning on and/or doing you real or imaginary harm. Do Not deceive yourself and others. Do this …
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Hi Kuya I agree when you write : " most are basically partisans, justifying their ideological stances and/or their views on policy as they begin to comment on the articles and then go off on a few well-worn tirades. Traditions of wisdom are less, crafty rhetorical fencing is more. Or, as often, telling those who disagree with them what low-lifes they are in singularly uncreative and tedious ways." Tiresome and tedious indeed. Entertaining sometimes though. A month or more ago I thought that trolls were story book monsters that lived under bridges and harassed goats. Now I have, sadly, learned differently. …
Posted to Witnesses to War
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I think he needs to add to the metaphor. That the police (USA) killed a few of the kids (the innocents) and maimed the mother in the process of putting the father (Saddam) away. Granted the father was a tyrant and in the past had killed a few too, but he was doing some of the tyranny at the urging of the police, they even gave him a few guns. Haven't the police (USA) become the new daddy (tyrant)? Just off the cuff.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Oh .. and the police broke the windows that were not broken before and and smashed in the door too .. just like the other daddy used to do. Beats the hell out of them. First the kick and then the pat. New daddy is bringing out a sock puppet to soothe the crying children and the wounded mother lays stricken on the ground. That's a nice story now. All the weepy parts layed out. Same terror, different terror? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Sure throw them in jail first, a little torture, a little rape. And they drove over the dog when they arrived to storm the house. What a nice story. Coming soon to an Iraqi village not near you.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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"In the past military families have had a code of silence,” McConnell says. “They have broken that code and said what they really think about the lack of protection for their families and the fact that the war has not ever been justified. When the history of the opposition to the Iraq war is written military families will be noted as one of the main forces that turned the tide against the war. They are the credible witnesses to the cost of the war. That is what we are talking about.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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.. on a technical note .. it would seem that our gracious ITT hosts have made some formatting adjustments to the comments we post .. i.e. a one line space is a one line space .. back to reality .. but as always brief is best .. conserve bandwidth
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Had to post this somewhere. Words from George Bush speech on terrorism October 6, 2005. "Evil men obsessed with ambition and unburdened by conscience must be taken very seriously, and we must stop them before their crimes multiply." pot ... kettle ... black
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Wolf, Glad you like the new improved metaphor. You wrote: "It still leaves open the question: do we do nothing or do we act to “improve” the situation? How do we decide what course of action to take?" Some people can't be helped. They have to work it out for themselves. Set a good example and hope they will follow.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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fatherof2, President Carter was your (assuming you are an American) president too, even if you did not vote for him. Democrats are not the enemy of Republicans. Republicans are not the enemy of Democrats. Or they should not be. Most people from the Middle East are not your enemy. You are not the enemy of most people from the Middle East. Or you and they should not be. People that want peace are not your enemy. People that want war should be your enemy. It is not us versus them. It is us versus ourselves.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Earlier in this thread we were discussing lawful commands and unlawful commands. Obeying and disobeying. " A Royal Air Force doctor will become the first British officer to face a court martial for refusing to return to Iraq because he thought the war was illegal " http://www.spacewar.com/2005/051016003841.lzs998fo.html I hope he is found innocent of the charges : four counts of disobeying a lawful command. It is a courageous act to risk a career and even be prepared to go to prison for one's beliefs.
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Here is a father of a soldier who has been to Iraq. Read his opinion on " Supporting the Troops " http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10606.htm
Posted to Witnesses to War
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Bush : “as long as necessary, and not a day longer.” The cynic in me says he means until all the oil is pumped out. Or until the next world war is over. Or maybe it will always be necessary. Rumsfeld : ”We have no intention, at the present time, of putting permanent bases in Iraq.” The cynic in me says he means the permanent bases will be in Kurdistan or Shiastan (any guesses on what they will call the southern region?) protecting the oil, after the civil war and partitioning of the country. Or maybe when the sock puppet government …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Krusty writes : " I remember shaking my head in disbelief when he popped out on TV claiming that Saddam would not let the weapons inspectors in. They had actually been on the ground pretty much making the point there were no WMD’s. In fact, it was the US who told the weapons inspectors to leave…" Yes. That was quite the lie. It was a sure sign the war was on. Ready, set, go. And Boosh is following the same script for Iran and Syria. Boosh said : "'This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Rabbit Thanks for the link above. Was very good reading. Boom Boom, the drums of war. Getting louder.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Hi Jay "Long Term" if you like. Nothing is permanent except God. Over on the "All for One, None for All" school choices thread you make a good case for parents being allowed to choose what is best for their children (and themselves). Self determination is best. The article states : " ... intense opposition to U.S. plans to establish long-term military bases in Iraq is one of the most passionate motivations behind the insurgency. There are many different strands to the violent resistance that plagues Iraq ... The one thing that unites these disparate elements is Iraqi (or broader pan-Arab) …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Most countries have some vetting procedure for candidacy in elections. Some are just not as far along in the game as others. Iran is an emerging democracy. That is better than not a democracy at all.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Back to Iraq. There is a difference between bases in a country and an occupation of a country.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay Permanent versus long term. Yes , there is a difference and I acknowledged it .. i.e .. "if you like". To quote the subtitle of this article : " No one disputes that the military bases are of a physically permanent character. The only question is whether Iraq will be under permanent U.S. military occupation ". It is good to see that you agree that it is an occupation. An occupation with a resistance or insurgency, depending on the perspective. Hopefully Iraq does make the transition. It will be making the best of a bad situation. But that does not …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay, Do you agree that if the people of Iraq want the occupation to end that the Americans should leave?
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay It is not just semantics. Do you believe the invasion and occupation was justified? What did Iraq do to provoke this invasion and occupation? What international law allows for preemptive attacks?
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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But the Iraqis that want the Americans there today may not want them there tomorrow. Let's wait and see.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay Always reasonable. Mostly. I do not think the invasion was justified. I bet you figured that out by now. The provocations you listed, while factual, do not, in my opinion, warrant the action that was taken. Other nations thumb their noses at UN resolutions. Sectarian violence exists in other countries besides Iraq. Many nations, some of them respected allies, voiced their disapproval saying that an invasion was unwarranted and called for continuing weapons inspections. The weapons inspectors were there doing there job and doing it well. Saddam was disarmed. No weapons of mass destruction have been found. The weapons inspectors …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay, Re: Re: What Arabs on the Street are saying: That doesn't surprise me at all. Arab's are very reasonable people.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Oops, that should read : Arab's are very reasonable people, mostly.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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November 8, 2002 - UN Security Council unanimously approves resolution 1441. New and improved waepons inspections on Iraq. Precise definitions of what constitutes a "material breach" of resolution. Iraq warned that violation of the resolution will bring "serious consequences" which the Security Council would determine. November 18, 2002 - UNMOVIC resumed Iraq weapons inspections after almost 4 year absence. January 28, 2003 - State of the Union address. Bush is ready to attack Iraq without a UN mandate. Never gets one either. February 2003 - UNMOVIC weapons inspectors were doing their job, granted not an easy job with Saddam dragging his …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Here is a good description of the prelude : " Prior to the invasion, the United States said that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and that it must either give them all up or undergo a regime change. However, immediately prior to the invasion, the United States made a further demand that Saddam Hussein step down from power and vacate Iraq. Still later, the United States announced that even if Saddam Hussein abdicated and his government was changed, it would send in forces to verify disarmament and oversee the transition to a new government. Iraq variously claimed that it never …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay, Yes, inspectors were in and out at various times. Why does it have to be a ploy or plot that Saddam allowed them back to forstall invasion plans? Could be yes, I know. But could have been an honest effort for peace too. Wild eyed for sure ... but my opinion is that it was a better answer than war. If I made it seem like the 2003 Iraqi Invasion happened out of the blue it was not my intent. There was the usual lengthy build up with the appropriate diplomatic hand wringing as a prelude to be sure. I …
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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.. Just a little friendly jocularity.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay, I don't think that Hitler or Saddam were sincere in their "diplomacy". War is all they understood. I thank you for this opportunity to clarify myself. You allude to this possiblity with "apparently" and I alluded to the possibilty of Saddams diplomacy with "wild eyed". Another attempt at good natured humor on my part. I don't think Bush is sincere in his "diplomacy" either. War is all Bush understands.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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That isn’t meant to be a put down or a reflection on you, just on Bush. Seriously. I mean that.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Jay, 's good.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Brian, Good points on the Niger/Iraq fabricated evidence. Not an intelligence error, despite some attempts to say failing to recognize it as a forgery is an intelligence failure. Someone fabricated it. There is a discussion of 9/11 and controlled demolition taking place on the Reckoning with the God Squad thread.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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.. and I couldn't get the URL you posted at October 11, 2005 at 11:56 AM to work. Even when I tried it without the space in controlled.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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.. if you can find it again maybe repost on the Reckoning with the God Squad thread.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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........ even though this thread seems to be long silent I will post this article about a recent opinion poll that indicates the majority of Iraqis are not in favor of the occupation.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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.. and if they were before... they are not now ... so it would seem.
Posted to Permanent Occupation
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Major Major writes .. " but the credit for preventing a catastrophe which did not occur would have been likewise absent. " Isn't a good deed it's own reward?
Posted to Hurricanes Rain on Bushs Tax Cut Parade
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Liberal and GOP in Ohio The corruption and incompetence is everywhere. Federal, state, local, Republican, Democrat, past, present and future too. More than enough shame and blame to go around. As Canadian Guy said " Twas ever thus. " How about being the change you want to see?
Posted to Hurricanes Rain on Bushs Tax Cut Parade
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mcnamarm writes : " To just say it’s everyone’s fault is to give up on the possibility of accountabilty. We can do better than that. " Accountability. The kind of accountability you demand from leaders regardless of party affiliation. Liberals should stop blaming Conservatives and Conservatives should stop blaming Liberals. Stop worrying about the mote in the other guy's eye and do something about the beam in your own. When your own political party/leaders screw up how about speaking out about it? Too often people will only speak out when the OTHER party/leaders mess something up.
Posted to Hurricanes Rain on Bushs Tax Cut Parade
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Accountability is very important and mcnamarm hopes that we can do better than that. Me too. People need to get past the compartmentalized thinking. Democrats/Liberals are this. Republicans/Conservatives are that. It is starting to sound like the bleating of sheep. Four legs good. Two legs baaad.
Posted to Hurricanes Rain on Bushs Tax Cut Parade
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Yes. Katrina Racial Wake. Maybe we need a good article about energy conservation. Put on a sweater. If you are still cold go chop some firewood.
Posted to Disasters: Natural and Social
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I am sure there are some "conservatives" who agree with some "liberals". Nobody that calls themselves "liberal" will agree about each and every issue with a fellow "liberal". Same is true for "conservatives". Otherwise they aren't liberals or conservatives but sheep.
Posted to The Margins Go Mainstream
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Scorp writes : " You worry about things that cannot possibly make a difference, and ignore the two million plus victims of Saddam’s genocide and aggressive wars, as you ignore the positive democratic changes that are coming to the Middle East. " Weren't some of those two million plus victims, many innocent civilians, killed with weapons and know how supplied by America? Weren't some of those victims, ie. Iranians in the Iran/Iraq war(But I guess the Iran Contra affair evens that out?), Kuwaitis in the Kuwaut invasion, killed with political approval and permission supplied by America? Democratic changes? I see the …
Posted to The Margins Go Mainstream
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Correction Rabbit, actually UN sanctions. It is part of the good cop(UN and bad cop(USA) game. Another oxymoron there. Should read bad cop and badder cop.
Posted to The Margins Go Mainstream
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The US was the leading force behind those sanctions for sure though.
Posted to The Margins Go Mainstream
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I weep for you, I deeply sympathize. For I've enjoyed your company, more, much more, than you realize. The time has come, to talk of other things, of shoes and ships and ceiling wax, and cabbages and kings, and why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have wings. Calloo Callay, no work today. We're cabbages and kings. The time has come, my little friends, to talk of foods and things, pepper corns and mustard seed and other seasonings, we'll mix them all together, in a sauce that's fit for kings, Come run away, we'll eat today. We're like cabbages …
Posted to The New New Orleans
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Lewis Carroll Alice in Wonderland excerpted from The Walrus and the Carpenter or The Story of the Curious Oysters
Posted to The New New Orleans
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testing HTML testing italic
Posted to The New New Orleans
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more testing ITT
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bold
Posted to The New New Orleans
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For advanced skills using italics and bold learn to use these HTML tags.
i = italics, b = bold, blockquote = text in fancy boxes This tag turns italics on This tag turns italics offPosted to The New New Orleans
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... more testing ... my apologies Joel ... I really liked the Walrus and the Carpenter reference... here is the testing .. 3 minute abortion debate
Posted to The New New Orleans
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Posted to The New New Orleans
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more testing .... forgive my uncertainty.
Posted to The New New Orleans
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Posted to The New New Orleans
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Whit, a word of advice. When typing up a lengthy post do it on WordPad or some such. You can copy and paste it and repeat it if the post doesn't go through.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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"It is a tribute to the human brain’s robust ability to sustain levels of cognitive dissonance one could reasonably infer would cause it to explode." Indeed. Good old "doublethink" at work. Just watching others use it makes my head hurt.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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" What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy? " - Mahatma Ghandi
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Hi whattheheck You wrote : "There are things worth dying for and even things worth killing for." My response would be, if I can quote Ghandi again : "Nonviolence is the first article of my creed. It is also the last article of my creed" The thing worth dying for (for me) is : not killing. When liberty is delivered and enforced by violence hasn't liberty taken the first steps to totalitarianism? Bill Moyers wrote : " Bullies-political bullies, economic bullies and religious bullies-cannot be appeased; they have to be opposed with a stubbornness to match their own. " And he …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Hi whattheheck You wrote : "It is the police, the military, and all individuals willing to put their lives at risk fighting (killing when necessary) not for personal gain, but for freedom, liberty or to protect the weak, who have held societies together for pacifists and dreamers." Many pacifists have/do put their lives at risk and many have lost their lives for their beliefs. My own pacifism is more practical and pragmatic than an absolute radical principle. I do not think it is morally wrong for someone to "kill when necessary". I do think that refusing to fight and working for …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Teasing a little here ... whattheheck writes : "All my fights were of one punch — I would hold back for as long as I could stand it. The bully would pick on me each day until I would finally give in and hit him as hard as I could. " Sounds a little like practical pacifism to me. But seriously, your parents gave excellent advice and you are wise to follow it. A word for your mothers good advice might be necessarianism.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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More teasing .. GhostRabbit writes : " You are more Right wing than me, but you are are standing far to the left of that guy over there. " whattheheck writes : " This kind of generalization is on a par with the very faction Moyers is criticizing. I consider myself to be an independent – not a Republican, but just because the president is a religious fundie is no reason to tar the whole party with the same brush. This only serves to further divide and radicalize people. " See .. not so different after all, both trying to avoid …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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.. and in the final analysis, to get back to the origins fo the article, the fundamentalists and extremists, of all stripes, shapes and sizes, have stolen and continue to steal the only thing of value we really and truly can call our own, the ideals we all hold so dear; peace, love, etc, etc .. if that isn't too generalized and rhetorical. Big grin while I write this.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Kuya writes : " My hesitancies about initiating violence against fundis are 1) it would be immoral and oppressive, and I don’t want to become what I hate, and 2) it wouldn’t do anything but galvanize counter-violence. Oppression doesn’t make people go away, they just go underground and make plans for the future. " Well said. Setting a better example is the best way. Being a peacemaker doesn't guarantee peace, but to lose is gain, sometimes.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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ljwhit writes : " This God thing of today is mostly self-serving human bullshit. ‘And I truly believe that God would agree with me… and Christ too. " That bears repeating. Verily and Amen.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay Cline writes : " .. To charge Bush, Inc as the mastermind of creating a 9/11 commission (publically hostile to the mastermind) to provide “dubious” misinformation is an exercise in logic that is beyond my dumbfounded ability to comprehend. Please elaborate for me. " Jay , you provided part of logic to the exercise yourself. The key words you used were " publically hostile ". I will elaborate. The public hostility was, in my opinion, possibly and even probably nothing more than deceptive propaganda to create the impression that the 9/11 commission was doing it's job and taking the administration …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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And this thread is way off topic.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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But a final comment on 9/11 if I may. You will ask for facts and evidence. I don't know what happened. Deciding what is true and what is false is very difficult. Who knows what really happened? I don't think we will ever truly know. It will fade into the realm of " how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? ".
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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I am here. Just catching up on the thread. Collecting my thoughts. Luminous Beauty is Gloriously Bright.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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.. is it IJWHIT or LJWHIT? l and I look the same in the font being used.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay, I can't provide you with any facts or substantive evidence since I am not a member on the 9/11 Commission or any other organization that investigated the matter. I can examine the evidence, circumstantial and direct, presented by both the official investigation and the evidence, circumstantial and direct, presented by independent investigators. Some evidence is credible and some is not. Don't you have any doubts at all about any of the official story of 9/11? Is in not possible that there is a coverup?
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay, have you examined the evidence that independant investigators have presented? Or do you just not consider it out of hand? Don't you think that there are some questions that the 9/11 commission convenienlty ignored in their investigation?
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay writes : " David, You are a gentleman. I apologize if you got caught in the line of fire during my moment of pique. " Thank you for the compliment, I do try to be a gentleman. No apology required, getting caught in the line of fire comes with the territory, but thank you for the consideration. Please do not take my criticism too harshly but the points you raised, while cogent, are relatively unimportant compared to the larger issue of prior knowledge, within the USA government, of the 9/11 attacks. Some observations and questions I have about the events …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay When Luminous Beauty writes : " an unerring habit of avoidance " she is correct. Deliberately diversionary would be a phrase I would use since I like the alliteration. Jay writes : " My gut reaction to your observations is that the first two, without knowing more detail, could very easily be and, in the absence of any substantive evidence, very probably is coincidence " Coincidence? Maybe and maybe not. I think not. Jay, you brought up Ockhams's Razor. In other words, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is probably a duck. For detailed …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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quack quack I am back.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Hi ... Catching up on the various threads. Back here now again. Did some more reading on some of the more popular threads. I am still new to these forums and am enjoying it. Understanding and learning so much. Thank you all. Went back to the beginjning of this thread. My first post on this thread was a quote from Ghandi. Quoted him again (x2) and Jesus too. Here is another from Ghandi : " The moment there is suspicion about a person's motives, everything he does becomes tainted. " Still trying to fully understand how that relates to the interaction …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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And one from Jesus : "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12 Just a reminder. Good advice.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay writes : " To all, A little not-so-preemptive strike. If you are sincere in your belief that I am ducking questions, if you are sincere that you want me to respond to your assertions, please drop the personal insults and start formulating coherent paragraphs of at least a 7th grade level. " and (not necessarily in context to former) " I hope no offense was taken by the last couple posts. None was intended. " Ijwhit writes : " No doubt, Jay, that civil and respectful is better… no doubt. But honesty and fair-play should go along with that. In …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay Back to Occam's Razor as it relates to paranoid delusional conspiracy theories. I read the Wikipedia entry to refresh my memory (have seen it referenced many times before and understood it then too) before I commented to your orignal reference to it. Here is some cut and paste from F. Heylighen ( whoever he is but his words work for me ) : " Occam's Razor is a logical principle .. (that) states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the priciple of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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If that didn't get to metaphysical.
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too
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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.. and one more thing. On the theme of Ghandi and Jesus. Johnny Cash said : " .. don't take your guns to town "
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Whit writes : " David, Do you mean using simpleness as a smokescreen? " Yes. People want to believe that our governments have our best interests at heart. Simple answers and slogans like "two legs bad, four legs bad" (enjoy the Animal Farm reference Jay) are very reassuring and serve as distractions too. The most obvious answers often overlook other possiblities. Jay writes in reference to my "evil men hiding/disguising the truth " conspiracy comment : " A logical argument must be that, logical. Using the above quote, you can “prove” anything." Jay, as Luminous Beauty points out, it is " …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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History is full of examples where our leaders, religious and secular, have manipulated us. They may speak mostly truth but hide a lie in amongst the truth. Sometimes lies are promoted (surreptitiously) as truth to later be shot down as falsehoods. This can serve many purposes. Here is a post I made recently on the Radioactive Wounds of War thread , the analogy is there : " I have a question : I have read (maybe even in this thread) several news articles, after a recent plane crash in Ontario, Canada, which mention that depleted uranium is used as ballast(?) in …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Most commercial carpets average about 1/4 or 3/8 inch thick. Commercial undercushion, if it is there at all, as opposed to direct glue down installations which are more common for commercial applications, adds another 1/4 inch, if it is there at all. Building materials and furniture materials have fire ratings that are defined and mandated by law. In other words, they are made to not burn easily. The large fireball explosion on impact burned up most of the fuel and was indeed an " air " explosion. The alleged " slightly burned terrorist passport " found in the wreckage " , …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Was the fire hot enough to melt steel or not hot enough to burn up a passport? Can't have it both ways I think. Sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory to me.
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Luminous Beauty writes : "Sit down, be quiet, and listen. You’re drunk, and we Are at the roof’s edge. " Words to stop the world on the eve of destruction, I think.
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whathteheck writes : " I guess things are “knowable” + or - $31billion. " Best laugh I had today, so far. Thank you for lightening things up a bit.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay writes : " Did the passport ride the “train” down with the rest of the building, or did it get blown out at some point with the thousands of reams of paper before the building got that hot? " and " Or, presumably, if this was a passport of one of the terrorists, it would have been with the terrorist at the moment of impact. When the fuel tanks exploded and released the flood of fuel into the building, that flood would have gushed downward. The passport would have been at least a couple floors above the most intense heat. …
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Jay No apologies necessary. My fault. My point is : The questions are complex and raise more questions with complex answers if the answers are to be had at all. Sometimes the questions just go round and round. Sometimes the answers are unavailable but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask the questions. We build up these theories about what happened. Some are simple. Some are complex. Remember Occam's Razor " Given two equally predictive theories, choose the simpler. " What if the simpler theory is wrong? Being simpler does not make it right.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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I would like to remind everyone of the admonition of our In These Times hosts as it regards posting comments. Please be respectful in your comments ... Respectful : Showing or marked by proper respect. Respect : To feel or show deferential regard for. Deferential : Marked by or exhibiting deference. Deference : Courteous respect. Please be polite.
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Rabbit, with equally great respect. Sometimes the lack of respect and courtesy becomes the focus and distracts from the message. Sometimes the people who need to hear the message most are made to turn away by disdain for their unbelief.
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continued from previous at 9:36 PM ... Your own position may be right and theirs may be wrong but always remember they may have something to teach you.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Rabbit says : "Beware the lie, for as Rabbit had to teach his teenage son yesterday, to admit a mistake is relatively easy compared to having to admit a lie about a mistake.. The first time you lie you can have for free, after that, make sure your answer is the one you intend to stick to. " Good advice for everyone. Go forth and sin no more. PS. The poetry is nice. " See Rabbit loves Batty Natty, she is nice when she’s Chatty, Rabbit is not being Catty. " Brings a tear to my eye.
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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.. on a technical note .. it would seem that our gracious ITT hosts mhave made some formatting adjustments to the comments we post .. i.e. a one line space is a one line space .. back to reality .. but as always brief is best ..
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Natalie write : " ... if they do indeed have such “terms of service” policies. I’m unable to agree or disagree with your verdict, since I have no idea exactly what ITT’s policies state. I guess they might be available on the site somewhere, or would be provided if requested. " Does anyone know if they do have policies? I looked for information on the site but never found anything other than " Please be respectful in your comments and try to remain on-topic. "
Posted to Reckoning with the God Squad
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Natalie, I got the Elmer Fudd reference right away (my child like nature, hehe). Made me laugh. In fact, I made a reference, elswhere, that even though Wile E. Coyoyte was a super genius he never caught the Road Runner. So be warned Natalie, hunting wabbits is twicky ... " Elmer's role .. that of would-be hunter, dupe and foil for Bugs, would remain his main role forever after and although Bugs Bunny was called upon to outwit many more worthy opponents, Elmer somehow remained Bugs' classic nemesis, despite (or because of) his legendary gullibility, small size, short temper, and shorter …
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Ha Ha Hee Hee Ho Ho Thank you to Luminous Beauty and Jay for lightening the mood.
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New Word for the Day : posted for the benefit of those who did not know what it meant (me) and those to lazy to look it up : risible 1. Relating to laughter or used in eliciting laughter. 2. Eliciting laughter; ludicrous. 3. Capable of laughing or inclined to laugh. Thank you Luminous Beauty.
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" Now Can we talk about 911 and how those with a Faith based argument use it to justify making war on entire nations? " Rabbit has brought the thread back full circle. " Fundamentalist bullies cannot be appeased. they must be confronted. "
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Had to share this opinion from : http://www.yhwh.com/ Jesus was a loser and a coward It's time the truth be told. Jesus was a loser and a coward, it's just that plain and simple. Just listen to this tripe: Mt 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons …
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.. continued .. Just think if we had actually been practicing what this coward preached for these last 2000 years. No crusades (where the Real Church killed millions of the infidel Muslims, praise God.) No Lutheran sponsored Holocaust. The Roman empire would have turned into a peace-loving state when Constantine became emperor 1700 years ago. No American civil war, as the 2 Christian sides would have resolved their differences peacefully. It's inconceivable. Sure, occasionally the whole peaceful resistance thing gets lucky and works, like when Gandhi helped free the entire Indian continent from hundreds of years of British oppression without a …
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.. continued ... quoted from : http://www.yhwh.com/ p.s. Though it pains me to do so, the numbers of bitter emails I've received forces me to make the following statement: The preceding piece is sarcasm. It states the exact opposite of what it really means, in order to make a point. I'm sorry if you didn't get it.
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Truth for me. Had to get it in there on the God Squad thread. Sorry to interrupt Rabbit.
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Whit, Amen and verily. Good songs by Roger Waters. What God Wants. Part One and Two. What God wants God gets God help us allWhat God wants God getsThe kid in the corner looked at the priestAnd fingered his pale blue Japanese guitarThe priest saidGod wants goodnessGod wants lightGod wants mayhemGod wants a clean fightWhat God wants God getsDon't look so surprisedIt's only dogmaThe alien prophet criedThe beetle and the springbokTook the bible from its hookThe monkey in the cornerWrote the lesson in his bookWhat God wants God gets God help us allGod wants peaceGod wants warGod wants famineGod wants chain …
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.. continued .. part two .. Do you believe in a better dayDo you have a faith in a golden wayIf you do then we must come together this dayCome together as one unitedTelevision audienceBrought together the sound of my voiceUnited united financially united sociallyUnited spiritually and all possible waysThrough the power of moneyAnd the power of your prayersWhat God wants God gets God help us allGod wants dollarsGod wants centsGod wants pounds shillings and penceGod wants guildersGod wants kronerGod wants Swiss francsGod wants French francsOui il veut des francs francaisGod wants escudosGod wants pesetasDon't send liraGod don't want small potatoesGod …
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God help me. Fair use disclaimer.
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Eulogy for Elmer : Old friends are the best friends. Old antagonists are the best antagonists. See you on the other side.
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"On September 6-7, 2001, 4,744 put options (a speculation that stock prices will go down) are purchased on United Air Lines stock. There are only 396 call options (speculation that the stock will go up) at the same time. Many of the United Air Lines puts are purchased through Deutschebank/AB Brown, a firm managed until 1998 by the current Executive Director of the CIA, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard. This is reported in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal." http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo1003.html
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"Newsbytes reported on September 27, 2001, that employees of Odigo, an instant messaging company in Herzliyya, Israel, received messages warning of the attacks two hours before they occurred. Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing for Odigo, confirmed that workers in Israeli received the messages. The story was subsequently carried by CNN and Ha'aretz in Israel." http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo1003.html
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"On August 11, 2001, US Navy Lt. Delmart "Mike" Vreeland, held in Toronto on U.S. fraud charges and claiming to be an officer in U.S. Naval intelligence, gave to Canadian authorities a sealed envelope. On September 14, 2001, Canadian jailers open Vreeland's sealed envelope to find a letter detailing attacks against the WTC and Pentagon. Source: The Toronto Star, Oct. 23, 2001, and Toronto Superior Court Records." http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo1003.html
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These are just a few examples of foreknowledge of 9/11. More pieces of the puzzle.
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The "US Navy Lt. Delmart “Mike” Vreeland" foreknowledge evidence is especially interesting. Some truth, some dis/mis info too, in my opinion.
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Luminous Beauty, Glad you liked the Nimmo article, found the Baraka poem and liked it too. Here's a little taste to tempt others. Somebody Blew Up America by AMIRI BARAKA Somebody Blew Up America They say its some terrorist, some barbaric A Rab, in Afghanistan It wasn't our American terrorists It wasn't the Klan or the Skin heads Or the them that blows up nigger Churches, or reincarnates us on Death Row It wasn't Trent Lott Or David Duke or Giuliani Or Schundler, Helms retiring .. excerpted from .. http://www.counterpunch.org/poem1003.html
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" Is this the big blend, where we morph into a police state? ... ‘AS the policing of the world gets more and more “privatized”. " Maybe, since our politics is becoming more and more "corporatized" it would seem to follow.
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Sorry to interrupt. Had to get this posted to the "Reckoning with the God Squad" thread : What God *Really* Told Bush Apparently, it wasn't just "invade Iraq and Afghanistan in my name." A special report by Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Scene: White House private residence, night, not long ago. President Bush present in his most favoritest guns 'n' bunnies PJs. Laura asleep, knocked out by a combination of too much Good Housekeeping and excessive hair-spray fumes. Suddenly, a burst of black smoke. A deep, resonant voice speaks: "Psst! George! God here, taking a break from supervising the well-being of …
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corrected link, I hope : http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgifile=/gate/archive/2005/10/12/notes101205.DTL
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Sorry, still not correct. Very frustrating. Go here : http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/ and click on the 10/12/2005 article entitled What God *Really* Told Bush Apparently, it wasn't just "invade Iraq and Afghanistan in my name."
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Rabbit Here is the problem. I tried to use both links you posted above. They both brought me to : SF Gate Item Not Found The article or page you requested was not found. If this link was sent to you via e-mail or posted on another website, it was probably incorrectly formatted. If the link that gave you the error appeared on one of SF Gate's pages, please mail us and let us know at webmaster@sfgate.com. Here is why. Look at this portion of your cut & paste from above : /gate/archive e/2005/10/12 See the space between archive and e. …
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Natalie, Thanks for pointing out tinyurl.com. So here is the the SF Gate - Morford article on a tiny, new and improved url. http://tinyurl.com/79fhe Easy.
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The suspense is making me crazy. OK. Crazier.
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Quoting Natalie : " It occurs to me that the Iraqis, even after all they’ve been through, are more positive about their future than are liberals in America, Europe, and Canada. " http://tinyurl.com/8a9ap Natalie, you never fail to make me laugh. I enjoy a good joke. A little nudge nudge wink wink. This was one of your finest because in a way it is very true. I am from Canada. For those who have not read the link Natalie provided, please do so. It is a happy story of hopeful Iraqi children. Hopeful Iraqi voters. I like happy stories. There are, …
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Here is another sad story you should read Natalie. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0331-08.htm Seems that things are worse for Iraqi children since the war.
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Natalie : "(warning:good news)" " Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! " Isaiah 5:20
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In case readers and commenters have not seen it on more recent threads : http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Luminous Beauty linked this on another thread and it is apt for this thread as well. Some difficult questions, no fence to sit on. Polarizing but effective. Avoid knee jerk reactions unless knee jerk reactions are the reactions you actually have. hehe. I am usually skeptical / disdainful of “questionnaires” but this one, for me, was thoughtful and accurate, I approved of where it brought me: I am sitting next to Ghandi. David’s political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85 I would be interested in …
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" Anyone in the top right quadrant is an a*shole. " Please forgive my forgiving nature but maybe they are only deluded assholes. On the road to Damascus. And it is hard for them to kick against the pricks.
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Natalie, come back. There is a test we would like you to take. Please let us know your results. We want to help make you well.
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Touche, Whattheheck. Touche.
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But the point belongs to Rabbit. En Garde, Whattheheck.
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Hi Liz click here for HTML tips ITT allows some HTML. Bold , Italic , Hyperlinks as shown above and a couple others.
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One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer. Last call for comments on : Radioactive Wounds of War. This thread is soon to be shut down. Comment while you still can. The link is to the second last page (for now) to allow for some context to recent developments.
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Rabbit, Thanks for clarifying. Seems like Liz maybe likes the box things . hehe The HTML is fun and useful. Thanks to Jay and Rabbit for being the pioneers for many of us in this wilderness. Most importantly, for me, is that allows one to add nuance to one's words that would otherwise not be there or at least difficult to convey. I prefer a more personal and conversational tone to my comments so I don't like the block quote boxes too much. Just a gut reaction . Best of all , maybe , is …
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That thread ... to be shut down soon .. comment while you can .. Radioactive Wounds of War ... not this thread where you are now. Clarification is good.
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See the Sneech on the Beach . Scroll down near bottom for the Sneech pic. But the Seuss poem near the top is worth the trip too. Excuse the interruption. Please continue.
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More Sneeches .
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More Sneech info . Good read here.
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A was a nice trip down memory lane with Dr. Seuss. Thanks Natalie.
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correction ... It was a nice trip .. Natalie, ... and Sneech on the Beach is a good analogy regarding the Political Compass. I will point out that people from the other side of the spectrum, or their perceived side of the spectrum, were lining up for the Sneech Machine too and were trying to get a star and/or scratch off the star they got. Nice analogy though. You get a star on your belly. hehe But, enough digression, for me, today, at least.
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sorry, another correction, this one more important ... and Sneech on the Beach is a good analogy regarding the reactions of some people to Political Compass results .
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Hi Liz, you are welcome. Rabbit, thank you for the warped history link. Kaw Valley Kid, thanks for posting the conspracy theory essay.
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Friedrich Nietzsche also said : " there was only one true Christian, and he died on the cross. "
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Yes, Jesus was a Palestinian Jew. Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute Turd?
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Jesus the Nazarene works for me too. Click for Nazarene info.
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Turd, Yes. Your comment was worthwhile and I apologize for my disparaging remark. Any other jokes? I like to laugh.
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Luminous Beauty, You can find a reference to the Nietzsche quote here : Nietzsche : Religion
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Here is a little more jocularity : Three Proofs that Jesus was Jewish : He went into his father's business. He lived at home until the age of 33. He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he was God. click here for more
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Found this : religious quiz This is the God Squad thread and since only the hardcores are still reading these commments I have posted it here. I have taken a similar quiz before. If anyone has another worth taking (not saying this one is) please share it.
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David's results : You fit in with: Taoism Your ideals mostly resemble those of the Taoist faith. Spirituality is the most important thing in your life. You strive to live by all of your ideals, and live a very intellectually focused life. 50% spiritual.0% reason-oriented.
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Kaw Valley Kid - thanks for sharing the results I hoped you would be one of the hardcores still visiting this thread. Did you ever take this one :
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oops ... this one : political compass
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Rabbit, always works for me. Except that one time just above. I was getting ready to paste in the URL and it was like the submit button got clicked. Eager electrons. Thanks for sharing your results and the encouragement to bring the quiz to the others. Luminous Beauty, I wondered the same thing about believing in Easter Bunny so I just answered as best I could. I think it was a poke at faith/belief systems. The recant on your death bed question was tricky too. I recant every day, sometimes several times a day. hee hee. Thanks …
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Luminous Beauty, what is NPR?
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Luminous Beauty and anyone else who cares to, please email me : braverdave@hotmail.com I promise I am not a stalker and do not have cooties :) Just want to discuss some things on a personal and off topic level sometimes.
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Sitting here in front of the computer, drinking a beer (excellent local craft/micro brewery), dinner in the oven. In small print on the label of the beer bottle : " drink locally .. think globally " I like the idea of a group of friends stretched out across the world. All different but the same. All knowing others and knowing themselves.
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A minister is hiking through the woods one Sunday after delivering his sermon. As he is walking along, he spots a hungry bear. Unfortunately for the minister, the bear spots him, and begins to chase him through the forest. At first, it appears that the minister might make it, but the chase wears on, and the bear begins to gain on the minister. Finally, the minister trips on a rock, and knowing he had no other chance, begins to pray. "Lord," says the man, "I'll never ask you for anything, ever again, but please, hear my prayer. Dear God, make this …
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another variation ... An atheist was taking a walk through the woods, admiring all that the accident of evolution had created. "What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!" he said to himself. As he walked alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look, just in time to see a 7-foot grizzly charge towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder & saw the bear closing in on him. He tried to run even faster, so scared that tears were coming to his …
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Does evil exist? The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!" "God created everything? The professor asked. "Yes sir", the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth. Another student …
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another variation ... A college class was led by an atheist professor, and every day he'd stand in front of his class and say, "Have you ever seen God?" to which nobody would answer. Then he'd ask, "Have you ever felt God?" and nobody would answer. Finally he'd ask, "Have you ever heard God?" and, like the other times, nobody would answer. He then would say, "It is obvious that there is no God." One day a Christian student had been having an extremely bad day; her car broke down, her mother was sick, her boyfriend was out of town, and …
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and yet another ... An atheist professor was teaching a college class and he told the class that he was going to prove that there is no God. He said, "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!" Ten minutes went by. The professor kept taunting God, saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting." He got down to the last couple of minutes and a Marine just released from active duty, and newly registered in the class, walked up to the professor, hit him full force in the …
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Rabbit, they were just simple stories. Some satire and comedy too. I never attributed infallibility or accuracy to any of them. Just shared them for discussion You say " If it is OK for someone to come around to my door and tell me that his religion is the ducks nuts,then it is OK for some dipshit to do the same thing and tell me there is no GOD." There is a door to door guy here in my town who does just that : knocks on doors to tell people there is no God. He even has tracts …
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Luminous Beauty, great article on Islamic Science and a special thank you for digging out the original of the Preacher and the Bear . I really enjoyed it.
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Thanks Rabbit, I understand. I knew you were having a dig, sorry for getting a little bristly.
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...or maybe you weren't having a dig? Doesn't matter. Luminous Beauty, thanks for the recommendation. I like gospel music too.
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Yes, I am sensitive, sometimes overly so. I like playing with you too Rabbit. It is fun. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Rabbit for his good works. Rabbit has tirelessly taken to task many issues and I would not see it be thanklessly so. Thank you Rabbit
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There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root. Henry David Thoreau
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Kuya says "Dude! Formidable thread! You guys really are hardcore!" Major Major says "Not that formidable, Kuya. If you just ignore the flame war between Rabbit and Natalie, the thread boils down to approximately twenty-three posts." (I think there are more than 23 posts. But, it doesn't matter, with those as a given and acknowledging the worthwhile tangent this thread has taken :) Let us please see this thread to 999, 1000, 1001 and maybe beyond. It is not so far to go. Maybe our computers will explode and we will be set free? Free at last! Free at …
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Thanks Natalie, I am just a simple country boy. I have voted for Green Party candidates in the last few elections. Awaiting the return of the Rhino Party. Happy to make you laugh. I do see things differently. Must be my bad eye ;) Just kidding. I live in British Columbia but on the mainland. Have visited Victoria several times. Glad you enjoyed your visit.
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I like good boots too. In the near future we will be having a federal election here in Canada. Currently we have a minority government and a wee bit o' scandal as well. Going Green again this time too. They are gaining popularity and may even get a seat this time! The Rhino Party was a national treasure to be sure. Natural Law Party is another example of some of the fringe elements. They got my vote once on a lark.
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Luminous Beauty ... loved the guns and dope link. Very funny. Liz ... I love Dr. Seuss too. Childhood favorites. I used to recite from them when I was little and my parents wanted to show off my early reading ability. I am full of love today ... please do not get me started on Microsoft. hehehe
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David Pronunciamiento................................. I want to love others and to be loved by others. I want to be loved by others and to love others. Perfect blossoms. I love others and am loved by others. I am loved by others and love others. Perfect fruits.
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... chicken and egg ??
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Thank you Rabbit but I am far from perfect. Still blossoming. I am a pretty flower. (said like "I am a pretty pony") Some humorous humility :)
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pretty flowers Is this thread dying like so many flowers? Going to seed? Digression to the nth degree? Anyone else still reading here? Are we talking to the walls and our terminals too? Only on the God Squad thread. We come here to say our prayers now maybe. Are you there, God ....... It's me, David.
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... and all the people said ... Amen
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GrayArea Yor response to wolf's question ... "Anyone with an example of how Arabs might be induced to feel self loathing due to TV, please post!" ... was excellent. Extremists on both sides are guilty of what they charge the other with. People who understand that have to feel a certain amount of guilt and self loathing.
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wolf wrote : " But i cannot fathom tens of thousands of US citizens celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocents .. under ANY conditions " How about ignoring the deaths of thousands of (Iraqi) innocents? .. under conditions of ignorance, indifference or cultural superiority? Maybe some are celebrating in their hearts and minds?
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GhostRabbit writes : " Its all very well for liberal, lefties to laugh, but you know nothing. The Repug’s planned all along for things to happen this way. The day was really a huge success and demonstrated once and for all that Americans were behind the President and his war. This also proved that Iraq was behind 911, that Bush is in front of things and that only those on their knees need to open their mouths at this point. " David in Canada wrties : Well said. I wonder when the Minitry of Peace will start organizing the " Two …
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Rabbit - The Blackwater mercenaries are there to do more or less the same as they do in Iraq. Protecting the elite and corporate interests and probably a few black ops as well.
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theresabetterway writes : "Looked at from a financial stand point, the denial of full marriage rights basically amounts to a “gay tax”; since I am gay, and not allowed to wed, my lifetime wealth accumulation will be less than that of similar heterosexuals. So...I’m losing money because I’m gay. I work hard. I’ll gladly give my money to charity, but I don’t see why I should be subjected to this ridiculous “sin tax”." David in Canada writes : Since I am single and have not found a wife to marry my lifetime wealth accumulation will be less than that of married …
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What gets me is that using depleted uranium is a war crime. Plain and simple. The first Gulf War in Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq again have all been depleted uranium wars. Where is the outrage on the international level? Has there been any action beyond feeble protests from any other governments? It seems that people could care less unless it is happening in their own back yard. The thing they have to realise is that this stuff doesn't go away and the whole planet suffers for it.
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If it is not a war crime it should be.
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I found this information on the definition of a war crime. "Defined by the Nuremberg and Tokyo military tribunals and by the United Nations, war crimes include the following: murder, ill treatment or deportation to slave labor of civilians in an occupied territory; murder or ill treatment of prisoners of war; taking and killing hostages; plunder of public or private property; wanton destruction of towns or villages, and devastation not justified by military necessity. Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions are also considered war crimes." "wanton destruction of towns or villages, and devastation not justified by military necessity." ... seems to …
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And I found this information too. I realise that this is a technical legal matter but come on. The American government is worried about dirty bombs so much they have held Jose Padilla without trial for over 3 years. Yet the American and British governments use similar weapons in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. " There are two ways to determine if the use of a particular weapon in military operations is illegal. The easiest way is if the weapon is used in violation of a treaty that forbids its use and the State using it is a party to that treaty. If …
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I have a question : I have read (maybe even in this thread) several news articles, after a recent plane crash in Ontario, Canada, which mention that depleted uranium is used as ballast(?) in the wings of some aircraft. Does the type of plane that (alledgedly) crashed into the Pentagon have depleted uranium on board? I could run a search on it but want to see if anyone else knows and/or has considered the possible implications. I don't know what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. Sometimes I wonder if the missile theory isn't dis/misinormation, created to poison the well, that …
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Here is a fact to chew on : Iraq, Afghanistan, the Balkans, have all become, to a greater or lesser degree, very large, toxic nuclear waste dumps through the actions of certain countries that have decided to use toxic nuclear waste for bullets and bombs. Opinion to chew on : Nukes, dirty bombs, depleted uranium, toxic nuclear waste, call it what you will, in the end, it is, or should be, hopefully, one day, a war crime.
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Ramjet .. Thank you for the compliment on my rhetorical skills. Will keep working on the facts. You ask about my relation to GhostRabbit. Mostly the same as my relation with you, an acquaintance met over the Internet. Now, getting back to the use of DU as counterweights in airplanes. If I can widen the scope of the question a little. Do you, or anyone else, know if the any of the planes involved in 9/11 were the types that would have DU counterweights? How much DU is typically used as a counterweight in a plane?
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Depleted Uranium Released During Canadian Plane Crash Little-Known Use of DU in Commercial Jets Exposed By Christopher Bollyn The recent crash of a Boeing 747 in Halifax, Canada, raises a number of questions about the use of depleted uranium (DU) in airplanes, public health concerns and the 9-11 attacks. When a Boeing 747 crashed and burned on takeoff at Halifax International Airport in Nova Scotia, Canada, on Oct. 14, an official accident investigator said the aircraft probably contained radioactive depleted uranium. Bill Fowler, an investigator with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, said the plane was likely equipped with DU as …
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... PENTAGON RADIATION LEVELS Around the Pentagon there were reports of high radiation levels after 9-11. American Free Press has documentation that radiation levels in Alexandria and Leesburg, Va., were much higher than usual on 9-11 and persisted for at least one week afterward. In Alexandria, seven miles south of the burning Pentagon, a doctor with years of experience working with radiation issues found elevated radiation levels on 9-11 of 35 to 52 counts per minute (cpm) using a “Radalert 50” Geiger counter. One week after 9-11, in Leesburg, 33 miles northwest of the Pentagon, soil readings taken in a residential …
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Natty Ratty .. Dodgy Rodgy .. Rabbit Dung Someone do my name please.
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Hi John Mostly agree with your take on it. Don't know. To quote myself " I don’t know what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. Sometimes I wonder if the missile theory isn’t dis/misinormation, created to poison the well, that will be debunked by the eventual release of more footage that will clearly show a plane crashing into the building. Then everyone can rest assured that they were being told the truth all along and sleep well at night that (all) the whacky conspiracy theories are delusional rantings...Posted by David in Canada on October 1, 2005 at 4:44 PM " I …
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Or here is another fantasy of mine. That some of the truth (or new lies) will come out one day and the reason they will give for the delay and cover up will be : " For reasons of national security " Don't you feel better now?
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Saluting the small flag.
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Eadora, Welcome back. You are like a knight in shining armour, riding across the desert on a fine arab charger, to our emotional rescue.
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Dodgy Rodgy, Death from the sky; Endorsing war crimes makes us cry. When the truth came out to stay, Dodgy Rodgy ran away.
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Here comes more reenforcements ... Kaw Valley Kid ... proverbial six guns blazing. It is a rally around the flag of truth. Look out Dodgy Rodgy. Looks like we done ambushed you. The Lights are on. Run and Hide.
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ITT : why oh why ? Censoring makes us cry. When the Pentagon came out ot play, ITT ran away ?
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Will the jack-booted goons be busting down my door tonight? Or tomorrow?
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See, ban the Rabbit and the Rabbits friends come out of the woodwork. My foot stomps where his cannot. Hello ITT - Seamus or anyone else. Curious Dave wants to know : Has Rabbit been banished? Why?
Posted to Radioactive Wounds of War
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Thanks Seamus, ITT has once again proven it's prudence and temperance. In These Times, Thank you for providing the forum for this discussion.
Posted to Radioactive Wounds of War
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I pray for the day when the monsters who have spread Toxic Nuclear Waste , aka depleted uranium , by way of bombs and bullets will be held accountable for their truly evil crimes. To all that have defended and endorsed the use of this toxic and poisonous weaponry : I spit on you. To all that have fought against the monsters and their toxic nuclear waste weapons : Keep up the good fight . I thank you.
Posted to Radioactive Wounds of War
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Yes ... thank you Skullker It has proven to be a great finale, large thanks to you. Dave Lindorff, Special thanks to you for the original contribution. Eadora, Pale Rider, Kaw Valley Kid, and others from back at the start of this thread, again, thank you all. braverdave@hotmail.com
Posted to Radioactive Wounds of War
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Colonel Helbig and other Toxic Nuclear Waste worshippers. I pity you. Get down on your knees .... You still have not answered an important question. Many have asked but you have not answered. You talk of bananas !! Get real please. Answer this : How do you justify spreading Toxic Nuclear Waste in foreign countries in the form of exploded munitions? If toxic nuclear waste is so great then why don't we make ceramic tile out of it? How about baby carriages? How much should we bury in your back yard?
Posted to Radioactive Wounds of War
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Friends, At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments. Psalms 119 : 62
Posted to Radioactive Wounds of War
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Baghdad And New Orleans I remember the looting that went on in Baghdad and the sneering contempt that many people expressed for Iraqis gone wild. Watching the looting and desperation it was good to see that Iraqis and Americans are not so different after all. Hopefully the veneer of cultural superiority that too many people have will be worn away a little.
Posted to Exiting Iraq
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whattheheck, Agreed, looting is looting and self preservation is something else. Some Iraqis were looting after the invasion and some were struggling for survival. The same goes for people in New Orleans. Valuable lessons to be learned when people see themselves through the eyes of others and stop judging them through ignorance or superiority.
Posted to Exiting Iraq
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- Joined September 16, 2005
- Last Visit November 14, 2006
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