WOLF, if you have data supporting your claim that "smoking pot leads to emphysema (or cancer).." please provide a cite from the 21st century. As a 29 year chronic user of cannabis, I am always interested in being educated. Fairly exhaustive reading on my part over the past ten years has me confident that no such link has been established between the ingestion of cannabis and either cancer or emphysema.
That being said, my answer to the posed question, "Is pot harmful to your health?" is - I guess so, but compared to what?
I live in a major metropolitan area. Walking outside …
All 29 comments by...
SteveHeath
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Last post should have read, "....cannabis smoke clearly CONTAINS carcinogens..", rather than "Concerns".
While I may not agree with the cited health risk concerns expressed by Prohibitionists, I acknowledge that marijuana and other drugs have the potential to be abused and therefore could also stimulate an increase in adverse behavior and health for the individual and the community.
If you agree with my stated premise, then I ask simply which is preferable - a distribution system that is significantly controlled and regulated or a distribution system that is completely uncontrolled and utterly unregulated?
Therein lies the message of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. One can …Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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NEILEMAC, you have a good sense for the written word. I could use more people like you in our direct activism getting drug policy reform messages into the print media. Please consider dropping me a line. http://www.mapinc.org/resource is the way to get to my email. Peace Steve
Posted to Cops and Harm Reduction Hotties, Oh My!
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WOLF, if by "Steve" in your first post, you were reefering to me, here's my response. (If not, here it is anyway...heh)
You aptly note that most of the insane sentencing enhancements have been passed only during the past 20 years. Actually the bulk were passed between 1985 and 1998. There's been very little public support for making them any more crazy during the past 5-7 years because the citizenry is becoming so much more educated about how futile such sentencing is, how irrational it is and how such sentencing is far more destructive to the offender and to the community than …Posted to A Foul Tragedy
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Norm Stamper is one of the latest additions to our Speakers Bureau at Law Enforcement Against Prohibition http://leap.cc/tbay
He joins other former police chiefs from San Antonio TX, San Jose CA and St Augustine CA. Not sure if it's something about cities which begin with the letter "S" but we're pleased to have them all on board. To see who else is willing to stand up in public and speak on the failed policy of drug Prohibition, see the Speakers Bureau link at LEAP. Inquiries about LEAP welcome by contacting me directly heath@leap.cc....Peace from Clearwater FL, StevePosted to Breaking Rank
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For the past couple of decades, the only significant group attempting to present a rational case for drug Prohibition has been those who make money doing the prohibiting.
A growing group of police and judges are organizing to speak out publicly against the utterly failed policy of 21st century drug Prohibition. You can check us out at Law Enforcement Against Prohibition http://leap.cc/tbay or contact me for more info heath@mapinc.org
Thanks for this enlightened article.Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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JAY or anyone else who endorses a policy of drug Prohibition in preference ot a policy of legal regulation also endorse the following:
Illegal drug dealers actively market to minors. Legal drug dealers check age ID.
Illegal drug dealers recruit minors to help them sell. Legal drug dealers do not.
Illegal drug dealers resolve business disagreements with violence on the streets and in our neighborhoods. Legal drug dealers resolve such differences in a civil court
Illegal drug dealers of course pay no taxes on their profits while legal drug dealers do.
Illegal drug dealers hide from police and public scrutiny which means …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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WOLF protests with: Rather than address each straw man in your list, i will just address the first (typically people start with their strongest points). By your reasoning, the US should be free (somewhat free?) of underage drinkers. Where i live, this is not only not true, it is not even vaguely close to true. Drinks flow unabated to the underage crew. While we might come to similar conclusions on this issue, i prefer arguments that are more compelling. . . and that skip the clearly false and silly rhetoric (” Those who endorse Prohibition are de facto supporters of the …
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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What the cops and judges at LEAP have learned in their long experience fighting the so-called War On Drugs is that the primary and most urgent question to be addressed is:
Given that drugs are in high demand by the American public, which system of distribution is preferable - a licensed, regulated system that can be monitored by authorities, OR an unlicensed, completely unregulated system that cannot possibly be monitored and which cedes complete control of drug distribution to criminal dealers?
Once we answer that question honestly, the subsequent questions can each be broken down into varying responses of how best …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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JC offers a third approach: Or a third system of effective law enforcement and border patrol that shuts down the distribution. Just because something isn’t easy, doesn’t mean it isn’t possible, or right.
SH: We'll set aside for the moment that well over half of American illicit drug supply is domestically produced. With regard to your suggestion, please contact your local DEA office and advise them of your proposals for a system that would "shut down imported distribution."
According to the testimony of my law enforcement friends, U.S. law enforcement agencies are in their 35th+ year of trying various approaches to …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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SIDE NOTE: References by various posters above to "European countries with legal drugs" are inaccurate. No such country exists. There is no country in the world that has adopted a legal, regulated system of distribution for currently illicit drugs.
With regard to JC's assertion: I would argue that the evolutionary forces of history have already decreed that drug use is far more dangerous to society than alcohol use
I can only offer my personal testimony as a former drug abuser (alcohol, cocaine and methamphetamine...straight for 11+ years now) and that is the two most dangerous, most addictive and most commonly abused drugs …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Do you want to answer the question, JC? That is, are risky drugs best distributed in a licensed, regulated system or is it preferable to have distribution on the streets, completely unregulated and completely in the control of criminal dealers?
No one here is promoting we end the criminal Prohibitions against homicide. When someone does, I'll be the first to join you in denouncing the proposal.Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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WOLF acknowledges his belief that returning to a system of unregulated distribution for the drug alcohol "may not be preferable" but would "stem the tide of underage drinking."
So we can conclude that while criminal Prohibition of alcohol may not be preferable, it's acceptable if underage drinking is possibly reduced. The descendants of Al Capone stand and applaud.
Jay Cline has offered his own opinion that drug production and distribution can be sufficiently curtailed to make Prohibition a preferable alternative to a legal, regulated system. His stance is the same reflected by about 5 people in 100 when we give public presentations …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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A final note with regard to the inane analogy between allowing adults to have a legal, regulated system for drug distribution and allowing adults to have a legal right to commit homicide -----The basis of our message at LEAP is that we accept as perpetual fact that currently illicit drugs have been for 40+ years and will continue to be for the future in high demand. Government statistics tell us that over 30 million Americans will demand and use at least one illicit substance during the coming year.
Homicide on the other hand, is not in much demand and further it …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Oh wait, just saw another question that many people often pose to us. That is, "What about heroin or other risky illicit drugs? Should they be legal also?"
The answer is of course, yes. The more risky the drug, the more urgent it is to move the distribution of that drug off the streets and into a licensed, regulated setting. That's how we currently deal with the three groups of drugs that are the most risky, the most commonly abused and the most addictive - alcohol, tobacco and pharmacueticals. We of course have not eliminated all the problems related to these …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Of course laws are not being implemented by the 5%. The drug laws were implemented in 1937 (Marijuana Tax Act) and in 1970 (Controlled Substances Act). At the time of passage for both, the percentage of Americans who believed that such laws could effectively curtail illegal drug production and distribution was rather high - likely well over 50% of Americans I'm sure and thus the laws were supported by sufficient citizens to have them enacted.
However 35 years and over one Trillion tax dollars later, not many folks in most crowds will raise their hands to the challenging question, "Do you believe …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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JC: To clarify, the “inane” anlogy of drug use and murder was in response to SH’s contention that if you cannot completely eradicate a crime, you should legalize it.
Pardon me, I never made such a statement. My statement was, "If there is no hope that we can effectively control and regulate production and distribution of a product/Service that is in great demand, then it is smarter to change the system so that we can effectively control and regulate."
Based on the number of homicides nationwide, I'd say our system of Prohibition against homicide has been rather effective. Based on …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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JC, I most definitely am not inferring, "If we can't stop it..."
That's a given as far as we're concerned, given that 35 years after passage of the CSA and steadily escalating drug penalties, sentencing laws, forfeiture laws etc, the level of drug imporation, domestic production and combined sales are at their highest levels ever. Drugs in the year 2005 are cheaper (given inflation), more readily available, transported in larger and larger quantities.
It's obvious to us (though perhaps not to you and I respect your different perception) that the current $65+ BILLION illegal drug trade in the United States will …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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JAY, first I think if you really believe in your admonitions that "stepping up" the criminal justice and law enforcement responses would lead to a reduced level of drug production and distribution, you should really, seriously contact your local reps and also the DEA to let them know. The current strategies are as aggressive as any time in history, the legal penalties for drugs other than marijuana are at their most stringent in history and we still have no diminishing supply or demand.
The police and judges of LEAP have therefore concluded that regardless of the level of enforcement dollars, there will …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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What the cops and judges of LEAP realize is that if JAY's proscription (which BTW is not uncommon...in the minority thinking it would work, but by no means uncommon) to "amp up" the level of enforcement were to be put into play, it would still not reduce the flow. Instead all it does is increase the price of doing business. It increases the level of violence in our neighborhoods against police and civilians who might try and intercede on the illegal operations. It increases the cost for end users and this increases related property and personal crime carried out to obtain …
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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We'll reset the observation from an earlier post now:
LEAP has given about 2000 public presentations over the past 3 years, speaking mainly to local civic clubs, church groups and to police orgs. Out of those meetings, LEAP speakers (all cops and judges themselves) have spoken one on one with a couple thousand non-LEAP police and judges from around North America. When polled privately, just over 10% believe that LEAP is misguided. A bit less than 10% offer no opinion. The remaining 80% agree that drug Prohibition is a failed policy and also agree that it would be much better …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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JAY queries: According to the LEAP website, 80 out of the orginal 100 “agree with LEAP that we must end drug prohibition.” So, how about the sample space itself? How representative is it of the general public at large?
At your next convenient time, attend a local Rotary club meeting. Then attend a local church meeting. Then go to a law enforcement professional conference. The combined demographic would be very representative of the audiences that LEAP presents to. And of course, you can use the link I provided to see when a LEAP presentation is scheduled for your area and you …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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It's probably just a coincidence, but the few people I run into who make an earnest effort to defend the failed policy of Drug Prohibition always provide me with at least one nugget that indicates I have little to worry about.
JAY declares: Steve - you are the master of aversion...
Heh...Reminds me of the line from Fezzik (played by the late, great Andre the Giant) in The Princess Bride.
Speaking to The Sicilian (Wallace Shawn), Fezzik says, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."
As an self-confessed obnoxious English major, I'll forgive Jay the malaprop and …Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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KVK, where are you located, if you don't mind my asking?
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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David, if you would like to be connected to some other folks in BC doing yeoman work and who are well educated and professional in their presentation, contact my friend Phil Lucas of the Vancouver Compassion Club
Interesting that the site here won't allow me to print Phil's email address in full...So just use this but push the pieces together...phil at drug sense dot org...You can tell him Steve Heath reefered you.Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Thanks Rabbit. Drop me a line if you get a chance. Maybe there's a way we can turn up the heat in your area. I've got a lot of good reform contacts all across North America, Europe and Down Under.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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Hi Tina. I don't have time to scroll back through the almost 300 posts in this thread. But perhaps you can isolate the referenced claim and I'll check it out from my end. In short, I'll note that here in Florida, a "spoonful" of cocaine (4 grams is equal to two SweetnLow packets) can easily merit years in state prison and of course a permanent felony record. Note that Florida has some of the harshest drug law penalties in the free world. Since I don't know the story you're referring to, I can't comment with authority otherwise. Best regards for the …
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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This doesn't "prove" anything. It only cites a single example from Florida to compare to the author's story. 4 grams in Florida can trigger felony charges and sentencing. Maryland is no different in that once the threshold is reached, the sentence for a "spoonful" (likely 5-10 grams) is just as stiff as for several ounces. It should be noted that while the author of this piece appears to be comfortable with "liberal" politics, the War on Americans - aka the so-called War on Drugs - is by no means a liberal or a conservative battlefront. Rather, it is primarily a war …
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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The reason you can't find anything on this particular story via a Google search is that it would be very unusual for such a story to make its own news story. Over 3500 Americans are arrested every single day for simple drug possession offenses. That's 150 per hour; over 25,000 per week and of course over 1.3 million per year. Newspapers could not possibly track every single bust and/or conviction.
Posted to Liberalisms Brain on Drugs
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