OK whattheheck I'll bite. How is the liberal media keeping up with FOX and the conservative media?
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Baraka
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I agree, although the Bill Ayers connection is a canard. An association with anyone doesn't make you a supporter. When the association is as tenuous as Ayers then it just muck raking. On the other hand I see McCain seeking the support of Hagee as somewhat duplicitous. depending on your political point of view I can see both as fodder for the same weapon. Baraka
Posted to Fox News' Criminal Pundits
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What the Heck First of all I hope you will find a way to vote for the person who best fits your views and ambitions for the country you (hopefully) love. next, experience doesn't always lead one to wisdom. Simple and well expressed intelligence is not always what we get when we vote for the least offensive candidate. If there is any better example of simple ignorance wrapped in the cloak of familiarity it is Geo. Walker Bush. I can't think of one expert on national security currently living that I would vote for or take advice from. They have all …
Posted to Fox News' Criminal Pundits
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So much of the commentary concerning Rev. Wright avoids looking at the truth of his statements. He points at the sins committed by this country as says, God damns this behavior, at points at christian scripture as proof. The jingoistic rejection of those statements reveal an ignorance of scripture and the moral standards we claim to embrace as a nation. I heard his comments again tonight and they made sense in their painful revelations of the truth. He asks us to reject a government that holds to such ideals, to change out of our understanding of the truth, if not the …
Posted to Bill Moyers Interviews Rev. Jeremiah Wright
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Barack Obama stayed with his minister because of his faith and respect for him as his pastor and I can't see any reason why he should abandon him even when he disagrees. The Rev. Wright spoke the truth and provided those young (and old) parishioners with an insight into what Christ expects of us as Christians. Little of his sermons (pulled apart for political reasons) can be disputed or challenged. If they could Natalie would have provide a rational answer to his commentary. She doesn't agree but neither does she make a case against what he has said. There must be …
Posted to Bill Moyers Interviews Rev. Jeremiah Wright
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Whattheheck is back, Ah once more Whattheheck that converted Obama supporter surfaces to spew his hatred. What did you see in Obama in the first place, or are you using that lie as a fig leaf for your racist views? Are you comparing the Rev. Wright to the Pope, you know in the disparities between the wealth of Rev. Wright and the average parishioner? CAn you elaborate on this particular part of your rant. Why should Rev. Wright offer consolation to his flock when he can encourage them to resist the oppression you so adequately illustrate is in our society. Would …
Posted to Bill Moyers Interviews Rev. Jeremiah Wright
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WTH I read your previous postings, so let me respond in detail. Some of your comments in the last posting are garbled from character replacement errors. I'll ignore those and focus on those that I understand or feel that I feel it might help to answer. Wright is wealthier than some of his parishioners, of course. But why have you inserted such an ad hominid? I only make note of the fact that the Pope is wealthier than almost all of his parishioners. I felt it was important to make the parallel incase you were continuing to castigate the good Rev. …
Posted to Bill Moyers Interviews Rev. Jeremiah Wright
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WTH Its your rejection of Barack Obama because of his religious preferences. That the church he attends is sufficient to condemn him. s a previous Obama supporter it would be wonderful hear why you originally supported him? And why do you now withdraw that support? It seems from you recent posting that you were fully aware of the racist behavior of, not only individual, but of institutional inequities that are perpetuated by the larger society. I am trying to convince you that these inequities continue and you should put your considerable intelligence to ending all forms of racism, if that is …
Posted to Bill Moyers Interviews Rev. Jeremiah Wright
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There is a critical issue here that needs to be discussed. the actual film clip was a phony cut and paste job by Fox and Hannity. The American Goddamn comment is actually a quote of David Pick the American Ambassador to Iraq during Clinton years and the whole sermon is on Youtube.com Here is the URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ&feature=related No one in the media took the time to look for the entire film before criticizing Rev. Wright. Here is a brief Bio: In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy's challenge to, "Ask not what your country can do …
Posted to Is Wright Right About Racism?
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Whattheheck I doubt if you ever has an interest in voting for Obama or anything he stands for. Your interest seems to be in disqualifying Rev. Wright and ths issues he stands for, equality and justice. You have stated your own evaluation of Rev. Wright's position or the assertions and statements he made. There is no dispute that previous US governments did murder thousands of innocent civilians over the last 100 years. From Granada and Panama to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This country, my country too, also was carved out of the genocide of the indian wars and resettlement by the twenty …
Posted to Is Wright Right About Racism?
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Poptown Please, at least be honest in your quoting of Rev. Wright. You are lying (or misquoting) him by saying that he said he hates white people. he never said that although you might have made that assumption out of your own guilt. He didn't lie when he catalogued the policies and practices of white politicians that dealt in slavery and conducted the holocaust or native Americans. But you lied in attributing hatred to this good man of the cloth who quotes the (your?)bible. Perhaps its your guilt, or the guilt of your fore fathers that lynched and murdered their way …
Posted to Is Wright Right About Racism?
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Whattheck I applaud your previous support for Obama and I honor any choice you make in the future. Some details: McCain sought out the Haggie endorsement not the other way around. I'm interested in which of my comments and opinions seemed to have been formed with little or no evidence? let me be clear about the behavior of previous generations. I'm not blaming the current generation for participating in rape or murder but I wanted to bring to the attention of the current generation that the previous generations put in place systems that continued to benefit following generations in a multitude …
Posted to Is Wright Right About Racism?
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Whattheheck, So how are we to have a discussion if your assumptions about his underlying attitude is not supported by verifiable facts? So when I present facts you ignore them as "pointless" how should I answer you? Does even a clear statement on the systemic behavior of institutions seem to get you befuddled and angry, or is that guilt ? I don't know who you are and only a bit of what you believe in from what you have written and I'll accept the notion that you could dispute the statements I've made, so why haven't you? Your comments are all …
Posted to Is Wright Right About Racism?
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The problem defined as Black Men In Crisis that scorp so vehemently defined in the racist terms of the conservative movement is another attempt to blame the victime for deficiencie in the society they created and live off. Young black men are the canaries in the coalmine of a industrial capitalist society. Young black men are simply the most vulnerable but eventually a society predicated on greed will eventually devour all its children. Trained by the schools to accept a life of isolation, vunerability and quiet desparation they no longer can find protection in a sense of community and collective strength. …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Scorp is willing to identify my comments on the canaries in the coalmine as a mindless collection of clichés and then goes on to drag our his own favorite mindless and unsubstantiated clichés in rebuttal. There is not one clear critically constructed thought in his following diatribe. Just more conservative rambling and posturing. Obviously the product of a mediocre public school education. His conservative capitalist notion of an equitable society is undercut by a system that has as it governing virtue _ Greed. The desire to make as much money as possible at any cost to anyone but one's self drips …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Scorp: Your response is in the main interesting and well put but like so many racists essential bent to conform to an immoral point of view. Democrat or Republican is of little matter. I could characterize the differences but find that dichotomy of little value. Your references condemn you. To align you point of view with republican or free market values reveals the villain behind your intelligence. There is a false notion that political pundits like to hang their hat on, namely, to embrace industrial capitalism is to be in favor of individualism and the strength of the individual effort in …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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To: Berkeleygurl I owe many people on this exchange an apology. I felt that Scorp, by his comments and the derogatory quality of his rhetoric was holding on to racist views and I labeled them as such. I beleive the larger society is searching for some sense of fairness and equity all though not very successfully. The lack of success is due in large part to the institutional racism in the government and the actions of the congress and other institutions that maintain and reflect an attraction to racist views and opinions. Institutional racism in our schools and commercial institutions are …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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First of all let me address the idiocy of Tina1. It is common to blame the victim and her screed does nothing more than that. The schools are failing everyone and are in fact an effort at social engineering that prepares the workers of this country for a life of isolation, humiliation and impotence. The school fail everyone and deny our children their humanity and convinces them that the industrial life of degradation and subservience is inevitable and appropriate. It trains us to accepts unhappiness as the natural fallout from industrial life. You get out of high school unable to ask …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Dear Tina1 Was your relative the teacher who was ill-prepared for class and upset that a little black girl disrupted her decorum? Or was she the wonderful teacher who had just had enough of the noise and lack of discipline for one day or was the mother just fed up with the stench of middle class values and privilege that alienates her from the educational system? It could have been any number of things none of which disputes your version of what happened but to form policy on the basis of your bias against black children and their parents is exactly …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Ah, the Wolf, I can see you have your heart in the right place. You have been carefully taught to be a bigot, black or white, male or female. Reducing people to percentages of moral certitude.”…25% are morally unfit” Are these among the top 2% of the population who have the money and the power to send the children of the underclass to Iraq to die for oil? Are they the 1% who own 99% of the wealth of the nation and want more? Who are the morally important class of people you refer to in your posting? Are they Christian …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Dear Wolf, Its true I don't know who you are and if I missed characterized you in some way that the characterization was put I apologize. Its a bad habit to make assumptions based in the sort of oblique comments you made. It was like a red flag that triggered all the wrong buttons - no excuse. The notion that there is an underclass sort of stuck in my craw. I don't feel good about those sorts of asumptions. Your assumptino that I need to help others has the same ring of bias so careful. Assigning people to demographic niches has …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Tina1 I don't have a reasonable response to your comment that would make any difference to you or anyone reading this posting. I don't want to call you some terrible name or demean you for your lack of intelligence or concern for anyone but you self and your mythical cousin. That person can't be real and actually teach in a school. I just don't beleive we have gotten that far out of synch with humanity. I beleive that your cousin is just a mechanism you use to spew hatred on the world through a proxy because you don't have the courage …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Thank you Kuya Your comments are interesting, informative and considerate, I can't thank you enough for bringing such careful humanity to this extended conversation. I agree with your comments and observations and will resist the temptation to elaborate on something already well said. Within this context I can't ignore the notion that how schools work is as much social engineering as it is cognitive support. Children, as we all, are designed by birth to learn. When they fail it is more a function of educational failure or the misfit of inappropriate design or practice. Every child can learn and wants to …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Scoop: I am impressed with the data retrieval and the associated analysis. The Democrats that Johnson held sway over came from the traditional Democratic party that ran the south since reconstruction and then became republicans in rebellion to the civil rights movement as a way to break the northern Democratic influence. They felt Yankee democrats who had the money and power of the northeast legislative block were using them. Most of the new Republicans were from agricultural districts with little or no national influence or money. But they learned to sell their legislative responsibilities to the oligarchs and by doing so …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Scorp We have wandered far and wide and now we are both making unsupported comments about our favorite view of past events. I don't have the time or energy to continue this debate nor the interest to do the research. There are flaws in both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and the motives of white people are suspect based on their behavior. To say that I should admire or embrace white republicans over white democrats because of their political beliefs is ridiculous. And I know that the harm done to black families was not a purely democratic invention. Republican …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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There is something phenomenal about this exchange on the future of young black men. There have been so many insightful, considerate and provocative entries that I have found this discussion incredibly informative. But I want to take note of the contribution of Scorp. He/She has time and time and time again responded from the viscera of white American society, narrowly and immaturely focused through the lens of white privilege and the distorted lens of the reality of right-wing political truthiness (Neocon orthodoxy) . Fascist at it core and driven by greed and a small and biased intelligence this person has goaded …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Does Scorp deserve a reply? It's like scratching a scab. Scorpy says: "Rational people resolve conflict, and grow;...." but we know these people who under the disquise of rational rhetoric and they are terribly flawed. Rather: Rational people are best in dealing in slaves. He (Scorpy) want us to believe that industrial capitalism is in some way altruistic and right minded rather than driven by greed and self interest. I know them for what they are and they resolve conflict through murder and mayhem and then they move on, it is their way. Is he willing to say that socialism or …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Hello Kuya Thank you for your generous posting. My ongoing conversation with Scorp helped me understand how satisfying anger is. It has a really visceral impact on the psyche. I just wallow in the meanness and violence of disagreeing with him/her forgetting to treat this person with respect and consideration. Then you come along and remind me that we are all in this together, everyone who responded to this issue of young black men being marginalized. That conversation led me into the dark anger of racism and bigotry that was part and parcel of his reality – and mine as well …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Whether it is the pain of the personal insult or act of denial or the systemic affront of a racist society its all the same. When it is personal I deal with it on a personal level and when it is the government or an institutional agency or private enterprise I deal with it on that level. Because i use the phrase white people as a collective pronoun it is intended to bring to the general public the consiratorial nature of prejudice in which indivdiual whites reflect the common bigotry out of a sense of being a part of the common …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Dear Scorp My characterization of you was not unfair, it was a response to the quatlity and tone of your comments which held the victim guilty and saw the episode through the eyes of a political point of view. That point of view, no matter how much good you meant to portray, held the voice of the privileged oligarchy who I associate as the cause of the problems that young black men and all marginaized people. And this is not a political identification because wealthy democrats have participated in this culture of greed cloaked in industrailism. Shelby Steel also found solace …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Well I believe Blacktown has it right as to the contributing factors, which we are all grateful for. He has put a fine point on the issues that most black men realize and regret, painfully. Unfortunately, as it too often happens, after his identification of the cause he regrets to say what the solution should be. Establishing blame is not hard to do and there is so much to go around. Unfortunately he doesn't offer a solution. As a black man I don't need anymore accusations I want a solution and I would rather have a conversation with my brothers on …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Ah Blacktown, I know you see yyour suggestions as wise and interesting to you but they are the ravings of a young undeveloped man who can not plan beyond a few feet or seconds and can only react to things without a sense of the consequences. It is this level of thought that keeps children from being punished for act that an adult would surely pay dearly for. I would suggest reading any number of books but I know that it is of little value to a mindset which is incapable of incorprating consequences. In one generation of his suggestion we …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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This is my last response Blacktown It is impossible not to see that there is a crisis with young black men but it is not what you are raving about nor do you seem to have a handle onwhat the problem is or how to deal with it. Everyone who responded to this list understood that there was a problem but your diagnosis and solution made no sense at all. And I don't kow how to reason with your comments or responses. Sorry .
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Welcome to the conversation Quarternine That wasn't a big rant at all, in fact it made several good points that everyone should consider. This problem with Young Black Men is so big that there is room for a number (many) points of view and yours is equally valid. I want to bring to your attention that you don't need to denigrate another's point of view in order to mount your own. Both might be right or true with absolutely no conflict. Certainly what you say has the ring of truth but like all the comments being made none are absolute and …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Raalnan5 Why are you trying to defend the republican party? My quarel is not with republicans or democrats but white politician of every stripe that perpetuate the racist policies that lay at the core of American Politics. Joe Leiberman gets supported by Hillary C. while he supports the worst president of recent times - incompetent, empty of any human values, driven by greed and the rhetoric of Christian Jihadists. Geo Bush works hard at moving the wealth of the nation from the poor to the rich than anything else. Putting our children in debt to the benefit of a corporate oligarchy; …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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Tina1 and Blacktown are both provocateurs empty of any value other than to excite the lowest possible instincts in all of us including themselves. Let me suggest an alternative. Each of us who is genuinely interested in a resolution of the difficutlies that we face as a society from any point of view you have begin a conversation with someone who has a different point of view or approach and see where it goes. Differences matter and our differences will make us strong. Have that essential conversation with someone with the hope that it will get you to a higher level …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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To VegasChris I know how you feel and the desire to slap the shit out of someone comes up frequently but I hope you try to repress the impulse and keept your energy and heart on solving the problem that black men face in saving ourselves, not just as children but throughout our lives. Young clack men are not helped by slapping the shit out of racists of any stripe or gender. That woman (Tina1) is here to remind us to keep our eyes on the prize not on the virulent white trash that has only marginal value. Use her vitriol …
Posted to Black Men: The Crisis Continues
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