Let’s say that you enjoyed watching last week’s Republican National Convention on television. Let’s say you drank in the almost uniformly white faces and the regimented revivalism, you clapped when speakers belittled Barack Obama’s work organizing impoverished communities, indeed, you cheered with Rudy Giuliani’s zinger, “Drill, baby, drill!” Let’s further stipulate that you were not at all discomfited by the… return to article
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Reader Comments (11)Page 1 of 1 pagesSirota is a great writer, but here is a point that he has not stated explicitly enough: Patriotism is another word for NATIONALISM. That whole business about “U! S! A! Num! Ber! One!” is an ugly part of our culture. Even Obama, who surely knows better, is forced to keep saying “America is the greatest country on earth” because otherwise he has no chance of getting elected. Greatest at what? Imperialism, I guess. Ionesco’s play “Rhinoceros” seems to be out of stock at the local bookstores, so I guess I’ll have to order a copy.
Someday I hope to see national borders disappear. They don’t seem to have much use except as an excuse for starting wars. You and I have more in common with the workers of another country, than we have with most politicians of either country. Of course, my dream of erasing borders involves rule by us masses, not by corporate takeovers such as NAFTA and SPP.
Posted by LeftyMathProf on Sep 12, 2008 at 8:58 AM David I don’t disagree with your comments above about the
Republicans but I am disheartened that you have come out in support of Obama knowing fully well that the Democrats, and Obama himself, are rife with special interest money, lobbyists on staff, who back off issues such as public financing and FISA and other progressive issues.
If you support them then to some degree you have to defend the very things one could lodge at McCain and the Republicans and justify it by virtue of saying we will vigilantly put pressure upon and have a better chance of getting what we want in an Obama Presidency. I’m not convinced of that . We like their (Democrats) positions better so we can justify and excuse the amount of money the Obama campaign has taken from Wall Street (whereas we’ll crucify the Republicans on it) and somehow expect we’ll get the results we hope for, how? I have not made a decision yet for whom I’ll vote for and I agree with some of your pieces that I’ve read that McCain of 2000 and 2004 has lost his way while pursuing the Presidential nomination these past years but I also can’t ignore the fact though that I have seen action in his record and accomplishments in his record and bi-partisan work in his record that I do not see at the top of the Democratic ticket. I agree with Huffington when she says Obama is really running against two McCains.
Posted by alpaig on Sep 12, 2008 at 12:02 PM Alpaig, I don’t know if David reads the comments on his articles, so I’m going to take the liberty of responding for him. I think his position is similar to mine: The Democrats are not blameless, but the Republicans are not worse. And electing Democrats will not solve our problems, but at least it will reduce the rate at which new problems are being created. Ultimately it is up to us, the Movement, to solve those problems.
Have you read his book, THE UPRISING ? It’s a great book. Among other things it paints very clearly the love-hate relationship between the Democrats and the Movement. The Democrats say “you have no choice but to side with us, because the Republicans are even worse.” And there is at least some truth to that. But David explains it better than I have.
Posted by LeftyMathProf on Sep 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM Alpaig,
If I understand your post correctly, you are unconvinced that having Obama as president would do more to enact the social and economic reforms that Leftists support than would a McCain administration.
I can assure you, sir, that nothing could be further from the truth.
You base your opinion on the fact that Obama, a staunch opponent of the lobby, has allegedly compromised his integrity by accepting the financial and tactical aid of individuals that either are, or, as is more frequently the case, were at one time, involved in lobbying.
While I fully understand why this apparent contradiction gives you pause, Obama has already responded publically to these criticisms and has largely put the matter to rest. The way I see it: yes, some of his money has come from lobbyists, but he is less beholden to them because he has so consistently rebuffed them.Though McCain may claim also to oppose the lobby, his positions are almost perfectly antithetical to Obama’s on the vast majority of substantive policy issues both foreign and domestic. I urge you not to let your rosy memories of the once-centrist McCain, or his periodic attempts to impersonate that spectre, fool you: a McCain White House would be every bit as alligned with the corporate-capitalist elite as any recent Republican president before him, and would be equally disinterested in the increasingly desperate plight of America’s own working poor, to speak nothing of the world’s.
A final word of caution:
He is not the sheep in wolf’s clothing that you imagine him to be. Quite the opposite, in fact, and that, as is always the case with such loathsome creatures, is exactly what makes him so dangerous.
Posted by joshuao on Sep 13, 2008 at 8:30 AM I agree with LeftyMathProf that Obama has been forced into a role where he has no choice but to embrace the mindless patriotic prattle that has come to define US politics. Its unfortunate that even progressive politicians have to play by the neo-con rule book in order to advance past GO. I think its safe to say that placing a great deal of hope in any politician to change anything in this country is a frustrating waste of time.
Frankly, I’m coming to a point where I’m ready to let this ship sink so we can all get a fresh start, after having learned the painful lessons of our ancestors. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you realize where you went wrong, and that’s exactly where the republicans are taking us. I’m not advocating for McCain by any means, but my feeling is that an Obama presidency will only delay the inevitable. Am I the only one that’s thinking this?
Let me also qualify my statements by saying that I am in no way advocating to just sit around and do nothing. I think there is a lot of work to be done if we hope to ever get it right. We should all stay involved and informed… just don’t be too depressed when USA1.0 falls apart. I hear USA2.0 has a lot of promise… hopefully they will have worked out all those bugs from the previous version (end cheesy software metaphor).
Posted by diciteco on Sep 13, 2008 at 11:31 AM Perhaps I do agree with you about letting the ship sink. Look at foreign policy. We have two candidates that plan to continue to wage Bush’s
war on terror. We shouldn’t have gone into Iraq in the first place and the war we have waged and plan to continue waging in Afghanistan makes no sense. We are supposedly fighting terrorism but there are terrorist cells in England and no one would suggest we invade England if their government’s efforts were not as vigilant as we would like in dealing with terrorists residing within their boundaries (I understand the reasons why that’s outside the realm of possibility but you get my point). There are those who propose other ways of dealing with the real threat of terrorism in ways more creative then the course George W chose and that both Obama and McCain intend to continue. They both support Georgia and Ukraine’s entry into NATO. To be honest I really don’t see alot of difference between these two knuckleheads in the area of foreign policy. I give McCain some credit in having made his “gaffe” at this townhall meeting where he said we need to deal once and for all with our energy dependency so we never have any of our young men/women ever having to fight a war in the Middle East ever again.
Say what? What did you just say? Then the next day of course the press was all over him and he reverted back to George W’s war on terror. Both these candidates every once in awhile will throw out one sentence that you grab onto and then the next day it’s the same old, same old politics. Even on the issue of drilling. I always opposed off-shore drilling and now I’ve come to the conclusion that we are a nation of pigs and that the likelihood we are going to change is minimal so it’s move over polar bears . We could give everyone a break and say we’re going to forgive all credit card debt for everyone in this Country and we’d be right back where we started within a matter of years whether the interest rates were 9% or 30%. There is the corruption of government and there is the corruption of our souls. We live beyond our means and we want a government that allows us to continue to do so. McCain or Obama? I don’t see either of these two as agents of change. I don’t see either parties as such. If they both are going to take us down the same road then do I want the more experienced driver or the driver who doesn’t have as much experience but given their youth perhaps has better reflexes? Actually, despite the smear campaign being waged upon Palin when I’ve talked to people who live in Alaska they really see her as someone who’s focus is on the people of Alaska rather then corporate interests or grander political aspirations. I don’t agree with any of her positions on social issues but is it possible she could be the best one of the bunch? until at least she’s fully indoctrinated into Washington politics. I actually think her apparent lack of interest in foreign policy is rather refreshing. I come from MN where Pawlenty is and he’s not involved in foreign policy but he talks the talk as he’s been
attempting to work his way into a VP slot or prime himself for a future Presidential bid. Palin seemed pretty content with just a focus on the people of Alaska and that’s good because that’s what her job entailed.
I’m in neither camp right now and as I said before I can get little glimpses of hope with either candidate at times. I’m a liberal but I’m tired of the same old liberal rhetoric and solutions I’ve heard over and over. I’m tired of the liberals being in the pocket of the NEA and ACORN.
I think George W has been a mess and agree with many that the GOP doesn’t deserve a second chance. I don’t think either McCain or Obama are George W but I think they inherit a mess with limited options and with not any real impressive vision on either of their parts.
Posted by alpaig on Sep 13, 2008 at 1:37 PM If I may Alpaig… I agree that there is little CHANGE that will actually come from either candidate, but I DO believe voting for the republican ticket to be essentially akin to an act of hate against women, persons of color and homosexuals. While both candidates are frighteningly similar on a myriad of issues, republicans generally wish to limit the rights of traditionally repressed peoples, while democrats generally wish to expand them. This is at least ONE fundamental difference I see between the two parties.
In all likelihood, the results of this election have already been determined by Diebold, so I’m not sure how much good it will do… but I think taking any positive action toward continuing the atrocities of the last 8 yrs (232 yrs?) is going to mess up your karma on some level. Seriously, I’m not saying vote for Obama, but don’t vote for McCain.
Posted by diciteco on Sep 13, 2008 at 4:12 PM give me a break! read this for all you need to know -->
The Compendium of Knowledge of Barack Obama: Most Liberal Senator
Posted by sarah palin on Sep 14, 2008 at 7:29 AM SP - Divide and conquer! That’s how to win an election, right? It’s such a shame that elections are won not on who we are, but on how we can prove the other guy is a jerk. Someday I really hope we can stop the cafeteria food fight and actually try to build something of substance. In the mean time, I suggest we all go back to kindergarten and re-learn how to play nicely; somehow it seems we’ve all forgotten.
Posted by diciteco on Sep 14, 2008 at 8:50 AM I cannot believe what I am reading.
The posters here are so anti-wood if you will that they fail to notice the tree let alone the forest.
Those who have traveled around the world and lived in other places long enough to observe actual cultural and conditional differences please raise your hand.
Those who raise their hand, and demonstrate simple integrity, will admit that the United States of America is the best place on Earth for an individual to live. This, those with integrity will admit, is the one place on Earth where you can do pretty much as you please. America is, against all odds, not a dictatorship nor a fascist state. We have not, again you must view reality free from ideology, fallen under the eye of big brother.
In other words, the reason I chant USA USA USA is because I hvae been places where simply speaking your mind can get you thrown into a hole.
Before you accuse me of being [fill in political label here] please visit my blog at http://the--realist.blogspot.com and read it. Most entries are short and easy to digest.
This is the greatest nation on earth for so many reasons.
Until next time,
Phil
Posted by Phillip on Sep 14, 2008 at 1:26 PM Is it me or do some articles not offer commenting? Is there a time period where commenting is allowed? I’m starting to think I have been selectivily banned or something...... How wierd. This discussion for example. I cannot add a new comment but I can edit my old comment.
Posted by Phillip on Sep 14, 2008 at 1:28 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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